Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Deziner on May 26, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
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Has anyone built or installed an auxiliary fuel tank? I can't find any info here for the topic, I have been told I don't look good.
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found on the net-
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/MOTOR659/Aux%20fuel%20tank/DSCF0672.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b110/MOTOR659/Aux%20fuel%20tank/tank5.jpg)
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I suspect the trick would be gravity feeding to the regular tank, allowing the regular tank to do the "electric fuel pump boogy" to the fuel injection.
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yeah, it's a gravity feed thing, but you need a shutoff, as it will overfill.
also needs to vent in order to flow, there's more to it than plumbing the aux directly to the main..
iirc Aussie Davo (r.i.p) installed one for his Iron Butt, my pal Roger made one also when he ran the Iron Butt, but his mounted directly on top of his fueltank.
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What I'm batting around in my head about a 2.5 gal auxiliary tank at the rear of the bike, under the top case. That way the rear seat remains wide open and the seat still removable. I was at the C.O.G. site and gathered some valuable info there.
Having picked up a used fuel tank for my bike from eBay will eliminate any kind of drama concerning down time while the necessary modifications are being made to the factory tank. And, if I screw up the "spare" tank I picked up, I won't lose my mind trying to another tank so I can ride my bike.
Many of my projects are a mental exercise more than anything else. If it takes me a year to get anywhere with a new endeavor like this, I'm ok with that. I will have to re-work the tail-light situation, among other things. It will be thought provoking, to be sure....
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Start here,
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6314.msg74283#msg74283 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6314.msg74283#msg74283)
but there is more info here,
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,36101.15.html (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,36101.15.html) be sure to read the update on page 3 I believe.......or maybe page 4
if you have questions, I will answer what I can
John
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Has anyone built or installed an auxiliary fuel tank? I can't find any info here for the topic, I have been told I don't look good.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6314 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6314)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2695.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2695.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3885 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3885)
I remember another thread but simply can't find it at the moment.
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Thanks, Guys! I have ideas dangling! I am a metalworker by trade so I have no issue at all cutting into my spare tank to get access to whatever I have to get to. Welding and bodywork are neither here nor there. The thought of building a custom tank out of aluminum and incorporating custom tail-lights and turn signals has my mind going a mile a minute!
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Thanks, Guys! I have ideas dangling! I am a metalworker by trade so I have no issue at all cutting into my spare tank to get access to whatever I have to get to. Welding and bodywork are neither here nor there. The thought of building a custom tank out of aluminum and incorporating custom tail-lights and turn signals has my mind going a mile a minute!
^^^^ I hope you mass produce something like that, hopefully I'll be first customer and second beta tester (after you heh). Biggest complaint i have with these bikes is they run out of fuel too quickly. I even carry spare when I go through remote parts of the desert and such. For example, I knew death valley gas prices were $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, but had to &^%$ing buy it anyway. was glad to get it >:( :-[ :-X ;D
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I drilled my gas tank and built a mount for a 3.5 gallon cylindrical tank that mounts on the pillion.
Drilling the tank and installing a tight bulkhead fitting (easy now...) was simple enough, and it remains gas-tight over a year and 45,000 miles later. Including a grip of 1,000+ mile days and at least two 1600+ milers and the Ten -n Ten rally and Big Tex rally last year. Big miles in fairly short order with no auxiliary fuel tank issues.
As Rich points out, a fuel shutoff is essential, as is a vent. I wanted:
1) simplest possible installation and system...
2) easily installed and removed.
So I went with gravity feed. I used a small catch tank as an overflow, and that vents to the atmosphere. BUT that catch tank vent has a shutoff valve, too. The tank feeds to the main tank much like the one in the picture earlier in this thread, and the fuel shutoff valve is about where the left side passenger grab handle lives. Fuel line disappears under the rear of the seat and I have a SECOND shutoff valve close to the tank. That second valve is ALWAYS closed when the auxiliary tank is off, and ALWAYS open when the auxiliary tank is installed. The vent valve is ONLY open when fuel is being transferred to the main tank. The fuel WILL NOT flow with the vent shut, and it WILL NOT leak either.
Starting with both tanks full, I ride for 180 miles or so on the main tank alone...until only the last fuel level LED is lit. Then open the fuel valve, then open the vent valve. As fuel flows in to the main tank, more LEDs will come on. How fun is that!?! I have 1/4" or 5/16" fuel line connecting the tanks. I bought both, but don't remember which one ended up on the bike. Whichever size matches the valves I got. Takes maybe 10-15 minutes to empty the auxiliary tank. Hard to know, since there is no indication that fuel isn't flowing any more, or the tank is empty, or whtvr. But after 5-8-10 minutes, no more LEDs light up. A little simple arithmetic tells us that fuel flow rate depends on the fuel level in the two tanks. Namely, fuel will flow faster at first, then slower as the auxiliary tank empties and the main tank fills. So that last bit may be just dribbling. No problem leaving the valves open, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T OVERFILL THE MAIN TANK. Yes, it will happily overflow if you fill a too-full main tank. You KNOW how I know this... Once the auxiliary tank is probably empty, close the vent valve, then close the fuel valve.
To pull the tank, I shut all of the valves, and disconnect the hose in between the fuel valves. Very simple indeed. Tank mounts on a really strong stand I made out of a piece of reinforced plastic (a storage cubby wedge shaped thing that fits behind a pickup truck bench seat, held on the pillion with thin tie downs to the grab handles. Yes, you can lift the whole bike by the auxiliary tank. Temporary but quite secure.
Total install was maybe three hours split over two days so the sealer I used with the bulkhead fitting could set up overnight. Tank can be installed or remover, full or empty, in 5-10 minutes.
Actually, the tank was originally installed on my C10, so I have most of what I needed except for the bulkhead fitting. Of course, a the C10 tank was not drilled, since the feed line to the carbs is not pump-pressurised. THAT install was super easy.
The C14 installation was easier than I expected.
Bulkhead fitting stuff: USE THE SEALER, and USE LOCTITE.
Dat
Sax
Man
edited for spelling...
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Has anyone built or installed an auxiliary fuel tank? I can't find any info here for the topic, I have been told I don't look good.
Don't let it get you down. Pamper yourself, get your hair and nails done...you'll feel better about yourself. :rotflmao:
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Why I oughta' :battle: :rotflmao:
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Datsaxman, I understood most of what you said with the exception of the venting of the main tank. I'm a bit confused there. Could you please explain how the vent is connected?
Also, I am looking at a few issues to overcome since the aux tank will actually be lower than the main tank. I'm thinking check valves and a pump to transfer the fuel. As I mentioned earlier, I would REALLY like to keep the passenger seat unobstructed. If possible. There is a distinct possibility that this will be an exercise in futility. Many of my projects are. For the most part, I try to do things for me that are different than what most folks do. And I try to do it with stuff I have laying around. I'm riding to LA on Friday, thinking about how to make the parts I have in my head makes the miles melt away.....
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I think that Brian had some experience with this.
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I made a temporary aux. tank out of a <gasp> red, plastic fuel tank. It got the job done but it was not elegant and of course it sat on the passenger saddle so I could not use it with a passenger. Although truth be told, I have yet to have a passenger who wanted to drain a full main tank and keep going.
Mine was pumped in both directions so that 1) the aux. tank could be lower than the main tank and 2) the aux. tank could be filled when filling the main tank- no need to fill the aux. tank separately.
What I think was a little bit different about my setup was that the aux. tank was vented through the main tank's venting system and required no vent of its own and there is no possibility of overflow from the aux. tank- any fuel expansion simply fills the main tank, and any pressure is vented as fuel vapor, again through the original, main fuel tank that came with the bike.
One suggestion is to put a second shut off valve under the saddle so curious fingers cannot open a valve when the bike is parked and cause an overflow or similar. Open the valve under the saddle only before riding the bike and use the external valve(s) as usual.
Brian
I think that Brian had some experience with this.
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Interesting discussion.
New to the C-14 and don't even know how much range I have remaining; after the low fuel is indicated?
Didn't realize there was so much involved in adding an Aux tank.
Thinking, seems like a lot of plumbing, and there has to be an easier way;;
I liked BDF's approach to the venting.
His venting solution gave me an idea. ???
(Why not, Use similar system as the fuel transfer system that is used on Aircraft Drop Tanks)
Why couldn't you install 1 switch, 1 (1/4") fuel line, 2 electric fuel shutoffs, and 1 small air pump?
To transfer fuel; pump air into the aux tank thru the vent line. {#1 Fuel shutoff installed in vent line after air pump}
With slight raise in air pressure, Gas would flow thru a small line thru #2 fuel shutoff and into main tank..
{Main tank would do the venting, Fuel shutoff's would isolate Aux tank}
Operation;
Switch on; opens shutoffs and start pump.
Switch off; shuts off pump, closes shutoff's.
Ride safe, Ted
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Don't let it get you down. Pamper yourself, get your hair and nails done...you'll feel better about yourself. :rotflmao:
I so, agree! It makes for a wonderful day too :)
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I think I'll get a hair cut tomorrow then.. I use this Korean barber shop in F'burg and they do a cracking good job.. Course they only cut the sides and the back. Not much going on in the middle.
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Interesting discussion.
New to the C-14 and don't even know how much range I have remaining; after the low fuel is indicated?
1.1 gal usable at alert. And most people seem to get around 40 to 47MPG, so if you average that, it is about 43MPG. So that is about 47 miles at alert; I tend to round down to 45. But I would never count on it being that high, so I count on 40 :)
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Even more to think about...... It took me all day to finally figure out how I think I want to build the tank. I searched the interweb for hours looking at possible styles, sizes, etc. Nothing I found was appealing. I want to be able to use the passenger seat because that's where I strap down my "Go Bag". The commercially available spun aluminum tanks look, well, commercially available. A rectangular tank would be uglier than home-made sin hanging off the back. I'm gonna try to build something that will give a thinking person pause, in a good way.
I'm still undecided as far as the plumbing goes. As of yet, I don't know enough about the C14 fuel system venting to carry on an intelligent conversation about it let alone make a decision. ???
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I'm gonna try to build something that will give a thinking person pause, in a good way.
I trust you are not going to do this project without pictures. When you say it will give a thinking person pause, to me that means fine engineering skills will be apparent. Your name ain't Deziner for nothin'. :chugbeer:
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I am far too vain to show pictures of the whole process. ;) In my occupation, it's frequently like the sausage thing. Tasty when done, but not a process you want to see being done.
Engineering skills? :rotflmao: It's more like a whole lot of :banghead:, and :doh:, with some :_shudder_Emoticon mixed in. If I'm lucky there is a little more :banana than :yikes: at the end.
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A friend and neighbor of mine...an aluminum fabricator (and motorcycle mad scientist of sorts) made dual aux fuel tanks for a local guy with a 2009 Concours-14. I believe it was two 2 gallon tanks...one on each side. He formed and moulded them to kinda blend in with the bike, and form fit the fronts of the side cases. The tanks were mounted on each side of the bike, and bolted to the passenger pegs (passenger pegs were removed). Each tank was plumbed/pumped into the bottom of the C14 stock tank via a bulkhead fitting that was added.
This guy did a cross country (Canada) coast to coast Iron Butt challenge in just under 72 hours...which by the way is much farther than coast to coast USA. If I recall correctly, he was getting 600 km range, or 375 miles, and that was running pretty hard as I understand it;).
I'll see if my friend has any pictures of the custom tanks.
Rem
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Thanks, Rem. I'm open to virtually all suggestions.
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A friend and neighbor of mine...an aluminum fabricator (and motorcycle mad scientist of sorts) made...................
My neighbor used to ride a lot of miles on his H-D and was interested in doing the same thing, pretty sure he ended up building an aluminum axillary tank. I'll check with him, he might have gained some good info from that experience.