Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Rembrant on July 01, 2014, 05:36:53 AM
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Hi Folks,
I finally got the new Sena 20S dual kit last week. I had been using the Sena SMH10 dual kit for the past couple years and was very happy with it.
http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/20s/ (http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/20s/)
Anyway, it's fantastic so far...I'm loving it. My only disappointment is that the kit did not come with wall chargers....but the 12vdc chargers do have USB cables that can be disconnected and used with other/existing wall chargers we had.
I love the FM tuner...that is awesome. We did an 800 mile hooligan sport-touring run yesterday, so I was able to test the range, and I was able to pick up one of the local FM stations up to about 30 miles outside of the city....which BTW is farther than my stupid VW antenna will work...lol, but much shorter than many other vehicles.
The 20S kit came with aux cables, so I was able to go from the output of my Garmin 665LM to the aux input of my headset. Yes, I know they can also communicate via Bluetooth, but why bother when a cord is available.
On a single charge of the headsets, my wife and I had them on full time for approx. 5 hours on Sunday, and then I used mine to listen to music for about 8 hours yesterday before the battery finally died. That's 13 hours continuous use. I'm pretty happy about that. That means I can usually get a full day of riding out of a single charge....and if we're just using them as communicators, likely several days.
That's all. Just wondering if anybody else got one yet. On my second dual kit in the same brand now, I'm really loving the Sena product.
Rem 8)
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Can the Sena 20S pair with your old SMH10?
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Can the Sena 20S pair with your old SMH10?
Yes. Actually, the Sena 20S will pair with any brand communicator (if I recall correctly).
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Yes. Actually, the Sena 20S will pair with any brand communicator (if I recall correctly).
True, but my understanding is that the SMH10 will only pair with 1 universal device but can pair with up to 5 other SMH10's. I assume the 20S can pair with multiple 20S's but does it see the SMH10 like another 20S? The reason I ask is that I and my son both have SMH10's and if we had other riders in our group buying Sena units, could they get 20S's and all of us pair together?
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True, but my understanding is that the SMH10 will only pair with 1 universal device but can pair with up to 5 other SMH10's. I assume the 20S can pair with multiple 20S's but does it see the SMH10 like another 20S? The reason I ask is that I and my son both have SMH10's and if we had other riders in our group buying Sena units, could they get 20S's and all of us pair together?
That's a good question. I'm not sure. It would be my assumption that you can pair as many Sena devices together as you want. Not sure about other brand compatibility....with regards how many.
I had my 20S paired up with an SMH10 kit all day yesterday...it was just us, so I'm not sure what else it will do.
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That's a good question. I'm not sure. It would be my assumption that you can pair as many Sena devices together as you want. Not sure about other brand compatibility....with regards how many.
I had my 20S paired up with an SMH10 kit all day yesterday...it was just us, so I'm not sure what else it will do.
Well that's a good sign. I would hope Sena would pair with any other Sena and use the same basic protocols. Would love to see someone develop a standard that all the headset brands use.
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Quote from the Sena 20S Features page:
"One of the most technologically advanced features Sena Bluetooth offers its users is a bike-to-bike multi-way intercom system with HD quality voice allowing for up to eight companions. With a distance up to 2.0 km or 1.2 miles, the system is the most reliable and versatile intercom motorcycle system. An additional feature that makes the intercom function a standout is intercom group management which enables users to manage intercom participants by group. The intercom is also made to be “universal” allowing it to function seamless with Sena Bluetooth communication devices as well as Bluetooth communication headsets in the market."
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I like them but they are a bit on the pricy side. If I didn't have the SMH10s, I would probably get them.
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Quote from the Sena 20S Features page:
"One of the most technologically advanced features Sena Bluetooth offers its users is a bike-to-bike multi-way intercom system with HD quality voice allowing for up to eight companions. With a distance up to 2.0 km or 1.2 miles, the system is the most reliable and versatile intercom motorcycle system. An additional feature that makes the intercom function a standout is intercom group management which enables users to manage intercom participants by group. The intercom is also made to be “universal” allowing it to function seamless with Sena Bluetooth communication devices as well as Bluetooth communication headsets in the market."
Excellent!
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It would be nice if they had a trade in program. I've sent a note to Sena to see if they are interested...I'm thinking not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
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I like them but they are a bit on the pricy side. If I didn't have the SMH10s, I would probably get them.
I was more than happy with the SMH10 kit...no complaints at all, but I wanted to try the new 20S kit. I really like the FM tuner...that was one of the selling features for me. I don't communicate with other riders much, except one friend with a Sena SMH10 kit. Otherwise, it's just for the wife (passenger) and myself.
I understand the pricey part though. If I had to pay full retail I wouldn't have bought the 20S. A good friend of mine has an independent shop and he sells me stuff at 10% over dealer cost, and I in turn post up reviews on their page for them. I'm not sure what full list is, but I paid approx. $350 for the dual kit. I sold my SMH10 dual kit on Ebay late last fall for $185.
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3 friends and I all have the SMH10R. Bothersome to me is the 3-way intercom method: Myself and another connect, and then the 3rd person is able to join in ... but how does he know to? You have to manually signal to him to let him know to join in ... so we can all decide if we need to stop right here for gas, or if everybody can wait the 100 miles to the next station. There should be something like an "all call".
Looks like the 20S solves this:
Group Intercom™
New to the 20S, the Group Intercom feature will allow users to instantly create a multi-way intercom with up to seven additional participants. Utilizing the Smartphone App, users can easily create and manage their Group Intercom to allow for a quicker and simpler set up process.
Unfortunately I bought the SMH10R only about 2 months ago.
And ... I prefer the stealth matte black SMH10R to the 20S with silver bits.
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Believe it or not, I got an answer back on the trade in.....they said they'll look at doing something like that in the future once their backlog of 20s is cleared out.
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Looks like the 20S solves this:
Group Intercom™
New to the 20S, the Group Intercom feature will allow users to instantly create a multi-way intercom with up to seven additional participants. Utilizing the Smartphone App, users can easily create and manage their Group Intercom to allow for a quicker and simpler set up process.
This is exactly what I am looking for. I want to ride with a group and have everybody hear everybody else when they talk.
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+1...I'll make an exception for my wife...but that's it.
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Good to hear good news about it! I was going to order an SMH10 two months ago but thought I'd wait til I heard some feedback on this model, just too bad its so much more money.
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Good to hear good news about it! I was going to order an SMH10 two months ago but thought I'd wait til I heard some feedback on this model, just too bad its so much more money.
The SMH10 is just fine...I loved mine. The big sellers of the 20S for me were the FM radio tuner, and built-in aux/audio jacks. I hadn't used my SMH10 since last fall, so I can't compare the two back to back with regards to sound quality. I am definitely getting much less "hiss" over my speakers from my wife's helmet (Arai)...not sure if that is because of the better noise cancellation on the 20S, or simply something different with the installation.
The dual kit also came with two mic booms...one hard mounted to the main unit, and another wired one to use as a second option. A handy accessory was these little 'adjustment' pads. In the case where a helmet may be a little loose in the area of the ears, you can use these little 1/4" Velcro backed pads to push the speakers out - closer to the ear. I didn't need 'em for my big head, but I made use of them in my wife's helmet...she only has a little head...lol.
Not sure what the delivery is/was like for these in the US, but I ordered these in Canada late last fall, and they've been on back order for months and months. Every time I got an estimated shipping date, I'd wait and check back, only to get a new back ordered shipping date again. They were supposed to be available Jan 1 of this year, and only arrived a little over a week ago.
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...Not sure what the delivery is/was like for these in the US, but I ordered these in Canada late last fall, and they've been on back order for months and months. Every time I got an estimated shipping date, I'd wait and check back, only to get a new back ordered shipping date again. They were supposed to be available Jan 1 of this year, and only arrived a little over a week ago.
Revzilla is showing out of stock... Another hit for them at http://wirelesshelmets.com/sena-20s-bluetooth-helmet-headset-and-intercom-new-2014/?gclid=CjgKEAjw286dBRDmwbLi8KP71GQSJAAOk4sjrPfdemACrQxLhhAmHp1Sl6wx2e79xsBwB8kfXCAfCvD_BwE (http://wirelesshelmets.com/sena-20s-bluetooth-helmet-headset-and-intercom-new-2014/?gclid=CjgKEAjw286dBRDmwbLi8KP71GQSJAAOk4sjrPfdemACrQxLhhAmHp1Sl6wx2e79xsBwB8kfXCAfCvD_BwE), but those are still showing as "pre-order" (for early June, wouldn't you know).
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I want one!!
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I recently (last several weeks) performed a lot of research trying to decide what to buy. The 20S was the one I found most interesting. I especially liked the idea of a smartphone app and the possibility of better group communications. However, there were so many troubling reports about the units breaking or malfunctioning, coupled with bad reviews, it scared me away. In the long run, most of the additional features I would be unlikely to ever use (extra long range, bigger groups, more voice menus, FM radio), so my dual Sena SMH10 kit just arrived last night. Looks like a very solid and well tested design with very high ratings.... plus considerably less expensive too.
I am sure Sena will get their act together with the 20S, eventually, but I had need for something now and I was not willing to wait another maybe 6+ months or something for them to shake out all the bugs and deplete the old stock.
OK, time to figure out how the heck this thing is mounted.....
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I'm still so thrilled with this proper set-up for C14: Radio/MP3/Pandora/Spotify/Phone/GPS/Netflix...and work conference calls!
I use the Schuberth C3 PRO with integrated SRC system. Its the cats meow! Amazed at not only the music and GPS audio quality, but how well the PHONE performs at Texas 85 MPH speed limit (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
It works with ear plugs in, which amazed me more.
(http://www.jcmotors.com/images/product/large/jcm-4371013360_1_.jpg)
And this piece replaces the neck roll of the helmet :great:
(http://www.schuberth.com/uploads/tx_pxproductview/srcsystem_01.png)
(http://media0.faz.net/ppmedia/aktuell/3096247803/1.2283396/width610x580/so-la-la-tasten-des-src-systems.jpg)
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I recently (last several weeks) performed a lot of research trying to decide what to buy. The 20S was the one I found most interesting. I especially liked the idea of a smartphone app and the possibility of better group communications. However, there were so many troubling reports about the units breaking or malfunctioning, coupled with bad reviews, it scared me away. In the long run, most of the additional features I would be unlikely to ever use (extra long range, bigger groups, more voice menus, FM radio), so my dual Sena SMH10 kit just arrived last night. Looks like a very solid and well tested design with very high ratings.... plus considerably less expensive too.
I am sure Sena will get their act together with the 20S, eventually, but I had need for something now and I was not willing to wait another maybe 6+ months or something for them to shake out all the bugs and deplete the old stock.
OK, time to figure out how the heck this thing is mounted.....
The Sena SMH-10 is a great kit...my wife and I used a dual kit for a couple years and never had an issue with it. I also haven't had any issues at all with my 20S kit and have been quite happy with it...I didn't even know that there were bad reviews...when I bought mine, there were NO reviews. However, I'm one of those guys that usually doesn't experience all the troubles that the general public does with most products....be it communicators or motorcycles or whatever.
The SMH10 is great and if you don't need the features of the 20S, then you didn't need it anyway. I wanted the FM radio as well as the aux input jack (so I can listen to MP3's from my phone or Garmin 665, etc). So far, mine has proven to be very reliable with fantastic battery life. For that, I have to give it a two thumbs up.
Depending on what you need as an end user, and price point, etc, ...I would recommend the SMH-10 all day long.
Rem 8)
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The SMH10 is great and if you don't need the features of the 20S, then you didn't need it anyway. I wanted the FM radio as well as the aux input jack (so I can listen to MP3's from my phone or Garmin 665, etc).
This SMH10D-11 dual kit I have includes aux port and cables. Perhaps that was added on later models?
So far, mine has proven to be very reliable with fantastic battery life. For that, I have to give it a two thumbs up.
I finally go them updated (was almost current firmware) and installed in my helmet and my friend's helmet. Tests OK except for bluetooth phone voice dialing (to the Nexus 5). But I have the same problems with using a "regular" bluetooth headset with voice dialing, so I am not sure what the issue is there (I have posts pending on other forums). But the intercom (one person testing, holding other helmet to mine) seems fine, and the bluetooth music playing/control works well too.
Depending on what you need as an end user, and price point, etc, ...I would recommend the SMH-10 all day long.
If the battery life and unit reliability are as good as the reviews say, I will be a happy camper. Might get to test it out for real tomorrow.
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This SMH10D-11 dual kit I have includes aux port and cables. Perhaps that was added on later models?
Maybe so. The SMH-10 originally didn't come with aux port for headphones, etc...it was an attachment that was an option/accessory IIRC.
Rem 8)
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I've used the 10's for a couple of years and have 0 complaints. I had read that the 20"s had issues working with Mac. Does anyone know if they have that issue resolved?? 8)
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Maybe so. The SMH-10 originally didn't come with aux port for headphones, etc...it was an attachment that was an option/accessory IIRC.
Rem 8)
Headphones for headphones?
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I wonder the sound level for a TomTom Rider is? On the SMH10 it's really low.
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I've used the 10's for a couple of years and have 0 complaints. I had read that the 20"s had issues working with Mac. Does anyone know if they have that issue resolved?? 8)
Not sure, but I was certainly pissed when I went to upgrade the firmware and there was zero support for Linux. I had to scrounge around until I could find some old laptop that had MS-Windows on it. Yeesh. They need to just allow us to copy the damn firmware file on the unit with USB Mass Storage mode and be done with it!
ANYWAY.... I tested it alone tonight with a phone call and the person said he simply refused to believe I was riding on 64 at 70MPH... perfect clarity with absolutely no wind noise. Music is loud and clear, even with earplugs. Only problem is that I can't seem to adjust the voice prompt volume, so I can't hear what the Sena chick is saying (will play with that tomorrow).
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I wonder the sound level for a TomTom Rider is? On the SMH10 it's really low.
??? You must not have the speakers in the right location or direction or something; or your volume setting for the TomTom isn't right (you should be able to turn the volume knob while listening to it) Everything I tried (except the Sena voice prompts) can be LOUD! At least they are on mine. Most impressive.
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??? You must not have the speakers in the right location or direction or something; or your volume setting for the TomTom isn't right (you should be able to turn the volume knob while listening to it) Everything I tried (except the Sena voice prompts) can be LOUD! At least they are on mine. Most impressive.
Yeah but....my music, and phone conversations are fine, and I hear loud & clear if I use the phone for navigation. There must be an adjustment I missed for that particular input to make the Tom Tom louder. I did check to see that the tomtom was set @ 100% volume on the GPS.
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Yeah but....my music, and phone conversations are fine, and I hear loud & clear if I use the phone for navigation. There must be an adjustment I missed for that particular input to make the Tom Tom louder. I did check to see that the tomtom was set @ 100% volume on the GPS.
Looks like you are not the only one with the issue: http://support.senabluetooth.com/entries/31177560-Volume-problem-with-Tomtom-Rider-2013- (http://support.senabluetooth.com/entries/31177560-Volume-problem-with-Tomtom-Rider-2013-)
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If the battery life and unit reliability are as good as the reviews say, I will be a happy camper. Might get to test it out for real tomorrow.
What a wonderful and beautiful day it was! Sunny and 71... did get to go for a few hour ride with my neighbor (he has a brand new Honda CB500F after trading in his CBR250) and the Sena is just "WOW"! Very impressed with the sound quality, volume, and the range. Blows away the old FRS stuff I used years ago. Full duplex is great and once I found the "sidetone" setting, I was even happier.
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What a wonderful and beautiful day it was! Sunny and 71... did get to go for a few hour ride with my neighbor (he has a brand new Honda CB500F after trading in his CBR250) and the Sena is just "WOW"! Very impressed with the sound quality, volume, and the range. Blows away the old FRS stuff I used years ago. Full duplex is great and once I found the "sidetone" setting, I was even happier.
:offtopic: sorry Max, but I have to ask: isn't it 2:42 am in USA? :o I'm in Germany so it's 5 hours ahead (7:42).
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:offtopic: sorry Max, but I have to ask: isn't it 2:42 am in USA? :o I'm in Germany so it's 5 hours ahead (7:42).
That would depend on where in the USA- we span four timezones (not counting Alaska and Hawaii) and then there is that stupid thing where we change the time twice a year. The previous posting was as 12:42am EDT. As what seems common now, I often fall asleep in the chair watching TV, then wake up hours later. So I will go wash up, check the computer, watch more TV, then either get to bed proper, or fall asleep in the chair yet again.
Yes, I "should" have been in bed." Sucks getting older.
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ah, that explains.
You guys should learn from those democratic Chinese: the country is just as wide as the US at about 2000 miles and similar latitude, and everybody shares the same time zone :o
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Spoke to a Sena guy at the recent AIMExpo in Orlando, and got to ask him my question below. They're workin' on it right now, but no, neither the SMH10 nor the 20S currently has the ability for 1 rider to intercom call all the others. I'm surprised this doesn't seem to be a concern to many others, to where it's already a feature. I guess most riders ride solo, husband-and-wife, or in pairs.
3 friends and I all have the SMH10R. Bothersome to me is the 3-way intercom method: Myself and another connect, and then the 3rd person is able to join in ... but how does he know to? You have to manually signal to him to let him know to join in ... so we can all decide if we need to stop right here for gas, or if everybody can wait the 100 miles to the next station. There should be something like an "all call".
Looks like the 20S solves this:
Group Intercom™
New to the 20S, the Group Intercom feature will allow users to instantly create a multi-way intercom with up to seven additional participants. Utilizing the Smartphone App, users can easily create and manage their Group Intercom to allow for a quicker and simpler set up process.
Unfortunately I bought the SMH10R only about 2 months ago.
And ... I prefer the stealth matte black SMH10R to the 20S with silver bits.
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Spoke to a Sena guy at the recent AIMExpo in Orlando, and got to ask him my question below. They're workin' on it right now, but no, neither the SMH10 nor the 20S currently has the ability for 1 rider to intercom call all the others. I'm surprised this doesn't seem to be a concern to many others, to where it's already a feature. I guess most riders ride solo, husband-and-wife, or in pairs.
Yeah, I was reading the manual about 3-way and 4-way and man is it complex. I was thinking "there has to be a better way!"
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Has anybody tried bluetooth FRS radio? Pair your whatever helmet system with a bluetooth FRS radio. Been thinking that might be the best way for a group. Wouldn't matter if you had Sena, BluAnt, Scala or whatever. Any number your want just all be on the same channel. One person speaks, all hear it. And tons more range. Something like this, $120 for 2 radios:
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/motorola/motorola-mu350r.aspx (http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/motorola/motorola-mu350r.aspx)
I haven't tried it with my Sena HMS10 but was wondering if anyone else has gone down this route.
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Has anybody tried bluetooth FRS radio? Pair your whatever helmet system with a bluetooth FRS radio. Been thinking that might be the best way for a group. Wouldn't matter if you had Sena, BluAnt, Scala or whatever. Any number your want just all be on the same channel. One person speaks, all hear it. And tons more range. Something like this, $120 for 2 radios:
http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/motorola/motorola-mu350r.aspx (http://www.buytwowayradios.com/products/motorola/motorola-mu350r.aspx)
I haven't tried it with my Sena HMS10 but was wondering if anyone else has gone down this route.
There are a number of complexities when you introduce FRS into the mix. The most glaring is that the communications will no longer be full duplex. And with group, that gets to be irritating, quickly. Bluetooth helmet sets are designed for full-time or long-time triggering, not for few words and hang up. Even with vox, the delays would be crazy (and the Sena is not adjustable- I think it is 20 seconds on vox).
Another is that FRS is far more crowded that many people would believe. I used to use it on motorcycles (with manual PPT to one other person) and we would get blasted with interference and cross-talk very frequently. Then, of course, you have to deal with another channel setting, a quiet channel setting, another power connector and/or battery, finding a place to put it, and turning it on and off.
I can't imagine how range would be an issue with the SMH10 or 20S. Even the older SMH10 has a straight line range of 900 meters (almost 3,000 feet)!
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There are a number of complexities when you introduce FRS into the mix. The most glaring is that the communications will no longer be full duplex. And with group, that gets to be irritating, quickly. Bluetooth helmet sets are designed for full-time or long-time triggering, not for few words and hang up. Even with vox, the delays would be crazy (and the Sena is not adjustable- I think it is 20 seconds on vox).
Another is that FRS is far more crowded that many people would believe. I used to use it on motorcycles (with manual PPT to one other person) and we would get blasted with interference and cross-talk very frequently. Then, of course, you have to deal with another channel setting, a quiet channel setting, another power connector and/or battery, finding a place to put it, and turning it on and off.
I can't imagine how range would be an issue with the SMH10 or 20S. Even the older SMH10 has a straight line range of 900 meters (almost 3,000 feet)!
Thanks for the info. I think the SMH10 is great for 1 on 1 communications but sucks for group. I want a system where 5 of us can talk to one another without pushing buttons. Just VOX speak and all hear. Does the 20S do that?
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Thanks for the info. I think the SMH10 is great for 1 on 1 communications but sucks for group. I want a system where 5 of us can talk to one another without pushing buttons. Just VOX speak and all hear. Does the 20S do that?
The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom. The 20S can set up an 8-way. Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).
Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom. The trick is that you can only call one person. To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking. For example, I (A) call B. C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation. D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation. But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.
Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading). For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....
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Thanks for the info. I think the SMH10 is great for 1 on 1 communications but sucks for group. I want a system where 5 of us can talk to one another without pushing buttons. Just VOX speak and all hear. Does the 20S do that?
I don't think so, not yet anyway. (unless it can be done via a smartphone) This is what I asked the Sena guy at AIMExpo, and he said they're working on it.
The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom. The 20S can set up an 8-way. Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).
Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom. The trick is that you can only call one person. To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking. For example, I (A) call B. C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation. D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation. But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.
Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading). For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....
I think you've got this all correct.
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I think you've got this all correct.
It's a miracle!
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Ok guys, a dumb question cause I'm just starting to investigate this technology. Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger? That's what I want. Android (Galaxy) phone calls, GPS (Garmin 2595 blue tooth) voice input, and talk to my passenger at the same time.
Very interesting discussion to observe. Thanks.
Ron
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One more thing (never just one question ;)) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!
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Ok guys, a dumb question cause I'm just starting to investigate this technology. Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger? That's what I want. Android (Galaxy) phone calls, GPS (Garmin 2595 blue tooth) voice input, and talk to my passenger at the same time.
Very interesting discussion to observe. Thanks.
Ron
Yes, the Sena SMH10R (the one I have, so know about) is sort of the 'operator' and handles all those items you mentioned as inputs. From http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/smh10r/ (http://www.sena.com/product/intercoms/smh10r/)
"With the SMH10R, you can call handsfree on your Bluetooth mobile phone, listen to stereo music or voice instructions of GPS navigations by Bluetooth wirelessly, and have intercom conversations in full duplex with other riders."
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One more thing (never just one question ;)) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!
The Sena SMH10R comes with very shallow speakers about the size of a US quarter that can be stuck or velco'd into your helmet adjacent to your ear. So, no ear buds, unless you make some modifications. And of course they're not noise canceling either.
I'm starting to feel like a Sena dealer, but unfortunately I'm not. Paid regular price :(
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Can these units simultaneously service/accept input from a smart phone, a GPS, and serve as an intercom to a passenger?
yes
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One more thing (never just one question ;)) Are these noise canceling or do you still have to wear ear plugs? Thanks!
No ambient noise cancelling. It uses filters to remove noise from the intercom and such, but not as something to replace earplugs. What is interesting is that the speakers are so nice and loud that it doesn't sound like one is wearing earplugs. Especially fascinating/strange when you turn on sidetone (leaking of spoken sound back into your ears).
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So, no ear buds, unless you make some modifications.
In the stock box they do not support earphones. However, they sell an optional clip (the part on the helmet) that does have a 1/8" stereo jack so you can use earphones with or without the speakers.
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Thanks guys.That's helpful.
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The SHM10 can set up a 4-way multi-intercom. The 20S can set up an 8-way. Setting up the call is a bit complex, and (at least on the SHM10) will disconnect any phone connection during the intercom (since it needs all the radios to do this).
Once it is set, you do not have to press any buttons during the multi-intercom. The trick is that you can only call one person. To have more join, THEY have to call one of the people already talking. For example, I (A) call B. C can then call either A or B and will join the conversation. D can then call A, B, or C, and then join the conversation. But if A and B are talking, neither can call C or D without hanging up on each other.
Although now that I re-read the manual again, the 4-way is confusing enough to say "WTF?" and perhaps I didn't describe it quite right (or maybe the wording in the manual is misleading). For me this is all theory, since I only have two units....
Got that right! Seems like the market is ready for a better interface. I'm thinking a unit that pairs with either an Android or iPhone with apps that make setting it up and pairing with other units easy. Seems like the capability is there but with only couple of buttons and no display its very complicated to set it up. An app on a smart phone could fix that.
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Darn good idea. Let Sena know about that.. I'd be first in line for the app....after you, of course.
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Got that right! Seems like the market is ready for a better interface. I'm thinking a unit that pairs with either an Android or iPhone with apps that make setting it up and pairing with other units easy. Seems like the capability is there but with only couple of buttons and no display its very complicated to set it up. An app on a smart phone could fix that.
The S20 does that. From http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf (http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf)
"Smartphone app. A Smartphone app for iPhone and Android lets you set up and control the 20S quickly and easily."
Does not look like the SMH10R does, though.
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The S20 does that. From http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf (http://www.sena.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Leaflet_Sena_20S.pdf)
"Smartphone app. A Smartphone app for iPhone and Android lets you set up and control the 20S quickly and easily."
Does not look like the SMH10R does, though.
Wow! That does look good. But it doesn't say specifically what is meant by: "Connect with up to 8 riders at a distance up to 1.2 miles (2 km), and manage intercom participants by group." Does that mean open mike using VOX? I say "gonna stop at the gas station" and everyone hears me? Or do I have to tap a button once for not more than .4 seconds ( cuz .5 seconds means something entirely different) and it cycles to the next person...
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Wow! That does look good. But it doesn't say specifically what is meant by: "Connect with up to 8 riders at a distance up to 1.2 miles (2 km), and manage intercom participants by group." Does that mean open mike using VOX? I say "gonna stop at the gas station" and everyone hears me? Or do I have to tap a button once for not more than .4 seconds ( cuz .5 seconds means something entirely different) and it cycles to the next person...
The bad news: No, they told me at AIMExpo that you can't just hit a button and talk to everybody your intercom is paired with. Not yet anyway. That's what they told me they're working on.
The good news: If everybody in your intercom paired group connects (joins in) so that everybody is on the line and remains on the line, then yes when you talk everybody will hear it. I believe staying on like that uses the battery faster, though.
More bad news: To get everybody 'on the line', aka, connected so that everybody hears anybody who speaks, first 2 people have to connect, then a 3rd has to connect to the first two peoples' conversation, then another joins, then another, etc. Only way I know of to tell people to join is to hand signal them, i.e. point to your intercom, or some such, and hope they see you, which is silly. An all-call function is much needed, IMO.
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The bad news: No, they told me at AIMExpo that you can't just hit a button and talk to everybody your intercom is paired with. Not yet anyway. That's what they told me they're working on.
The good news: If everybody in your intercom paired group connects (joins in) so that everybody is on the line and remains on the line, then yes when you talk everybody will hear it. I believe staying on like that uses the battery faster, though.
More bad news: To get everybody 'on the line', aka, connected so that everybody hears anybody who speaks, first 2 people have to connect, then a 3rd has to connect to the first two peoples' conversation, then another joins, then another, etc. Only way I know of to tell people to join is to hand signal them, i.e. point to your intercom, or some such, and hope they see you, which is silly. An all-call function is much needed, IMO.
Exactly what I was worried about. They still haven't figured out group communication. I don't understand why this is so hard. Must be some serious limitations in Bluetooth.
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Exactly what I was worried about. They still haven't figured out group communication. I don't understand why this is so hard. Must be some serious limitations in Bluetooth.
Yes, it is mostly bluetooth limitations. To my knowledge, bluetooth has no "broadcast" like capability, it is a point-to-point technology. Essentially, the Sena can actively talk to only a few devices at a time, so the larger "group" communications work as a type of "mesh network" with each Sena acting as a repeater. I am not sure there is any other way to do this with bluetooth. To have instant communications with larger groups, that would move into some other radio technology, like FRS, but like I said before, you get all kinds of new issues with non-duplex communication, interference, crosstalk, etc. Plus I don't think FRS is licensed to allow digital, so it would be analog. Of course, many of us are used to one-at-a-time-to-many-PPT type radio communications, so it might not be a big deal. But once you get a taste of full-duplex digital, it is hard to go back.
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Yes, it is mostly bluetooth limitations. To my knowledge, bluetooth has no "broadcast" like capability, it is a point-to-point technology. Essentially, the Sena can actively talk to only a few devices at a time, so the larger "group" communications work as a type of "mesh network" with each Sena acting as a repeater. I am not sure there is any other way to do this with bluetooth. To have instant communications with larger groups, that would move into some other radio technology, like FRS, but like I said before, you get all kinds of new issues with non-duplex communication, interference, crosstalk, etc. Plus I don't think FRS is licensed to allow digital, so it would be analog. Of course, many of us are used to one-at-a-time-to-many-PPT type radio communications, so it might not be a big deal. But once you get a taste of full-duplex digital, it is hard to go back.
Make sense. Maybe whats needed is auto FRS channel hopping technology. Or burst digital on an FRS channel. Since digital can be so compressed now, multiple micro-second bursts over the period of a second would still leave the channel open to analog. Essentially cell phone technology.
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All I can say is "SENA"! They connect to the computer and have worked rock solid! I have the SMH10 and will get the 20S (or whatever is newest) when the time comes to replace...or just get it to upgrade the comms! I'm super happy with my comms!
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All I can say is "SENA"! They connect to the computer and have worked rock solid! I have the SMH10 and will get the 20S (or whatever is newest) when the time comes to replace...or just get it to upgrade the comms! I'm super happy with my comms!
I also have a Sena and have been extremely pleased. A word of warning- I read a lot of complaints about the new 20S with them breaking, which is why I specifically went with the SMH10.
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Don't want to further the thread into something unrelated, but I also have a Sena and have been extremely pleased. A word of warning- there were a lot of complaints about the new 20S with them breaking, which is why I specifically went with the SMH10.
Good to know! I love my SMH10! Hope they resolve the 20S issue! I just added a second cigarette power port to the left side of my dash (opposite the one that comes with the bike) just so I can plug in my SENA car charger when on long rides...works great and keeps the comms working all day long!
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Can a person using a long charging cord charge and talk on a Sena at the same time?
Scala's won't.
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Can a person using a long charging cord charge and talk on a Sena at the same time?
Scala's won't.
Yes. You can charge and actively use the unit at the same time.
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Just bought a Sena 10 yesterday. I'm jazzed!
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I also have a Sena and have been extremely pleased. A word of warning- I read a lot of complaints about the new 20S with them breaking, which is why I specifically went with the SMH10.
I had the SMH-10 for a couple years and loved it. Fantastic product. Bought the Sena 20S when it first came out and have been very pleased with it. I like the lower profile, the aux in port, and the integrated FM tuner...that's cool. I haven't heard anything but them breaking, but I haven't looked either.
Rem
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I had the SMH-10 for a couple years and loved it. Fantastic product. Bought the Sena 20S when it first came out and have been very pleased with it. I like the lower profile, the aux in port, and the integrated FM tuner...that's cool. I haven't heard anything but them breaking, but I haven't looked either.
The biggest problem was with the connector that holds it to the helmet breaking, but lots of other issues too. One indicator- on Amazon, 44% of the reviews were 1 to 3 stars. On the SHM10 it is only 7%, which is pretty amazing (and we are talking over 500 reviews!)
I could have bought either, but I didn't care about the FM tuner or the aux port. The thinner part, voice synth, and theoretical better multi-way intercom were attractive, but not enough to overcome my fear. And paying less didn't hurt either.
Hopefully they have overcome some of the early production problems.
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I had a bluant F4, POS. Had a hard time pairing with another F4 and sound quality sucked. Sena SMH10, pair's easy, much better sound quality and jog dial much easier to use.
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I had a bluant F4, POS. Had a hard time pairing with another F4 and sound quality sucked. Sena SMH10, pair's easy, much better sound quality and jog dial much easier to use.
What is amazing is just how LOUD the Sena can be from such tiny speakers. So much louder than anything I have used before.... which is especially useful when also using earplugs. The jogdial is also nice, although I forget how to use all the features.
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I've just bought one, decided to upgrade from the SMH10 as one of the pogo pins was broken on the 10 and I can't find the correct ones to carry out a repair. Only used the 20s a couple of times so far, and it seems to have a better bass response to the SMH10. One thing that does annoy me though is the frequency announcement on the radio. Every time my Zumo 660 cuts in to give a direction, the radio on the 20s feels the need to announce the frequency of the station I was previously listening to - bloody annoying! Does anyone know if you can turn the announcement off?
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So has the 20S been improved since it came out? I won't be able to ride for at least a month more, maybe 2. But want to buy a 10S or 20S soon. I ride solo and mostly alone, but would like to ability to connect to somebody else's communicator if needed. I also want detached helmet speakers AND mic (not the 'boom' one, since I wear a closed Shoei X12 helmet), PLUS the ability to connect in-ear speakers, in case I go that direction in the future. The softest MAX-lite foam earplugs are starting to bother my ears on long rides, so will try those in-ear speakers Nicole posted somewhere (from Amazon). Need to make sure the plug from those fit the 'aux' plug on the Sena. Finally, want to be able to use Pandora/Spotify when cell service is available. No need for FM unless there're special channels for weather, etc. (who hears FM anymore?). Based on those needs, which is the best value of the 2 SENAs? And what's the difference in battery life? Comments welcome :).
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So has the 20S been improved since it came out? I won't be able to ride for at least a month more, maybe 2. But want to buy a 10S or 20S soon. I ride solo and mostly alone, but would like to ability to connect to somebody else's communicator if needed. I also want detached helmet speakers AND mic (not the 'boom' one, since I wear a closed Shoei X12 helmet), PLUS the ability to connect in-ear speakers, in case I go that direction in the future. The softest MAX-lite foam earplugs are starting to bother my ears on long rides, so will try those in-ear speakers Nicole posted somewhere (from Amazon). Need to make sure the plug from those fit the 'aux' plug on the Sena. Finally, want to be able to use Pandora/Spotify when cell service is available. No need for FM unless there're special channels for weather, etc. (who hears FM anymore?). Based on those needs, which is the best value of the 2 SENAs? And what's the difference in battery life? Comments welcome :).
I don't know if the 20 has been physically improved since release (to address the breaking issue), but I assume it would have been by now.
If you want both speakers and earphones, only the 20 supports that, not the 10 [out of the box]. Both will do everything else you listed and have similar battery life.
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I don't know if the 20 has been physically improved since release (to address the breaking issue), but I assume it would have been by now.
If you want both speakers and earphones, only the 20 supports that, not the 10. Both will do everything else you listed and have similar battery life.
I have a SMH10 with 2 different helmet clamps, one has hard wired speakers and microphone and the other has a boom mic with earphone jack. So it does support both speakers and earphones but not at the same time.
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I have a SMH10 with 2 different helmet clamps, one has hard wired speakers and microphone and the other has a boom mic with earphone jack. So it does support both speakers and earphones but not at the same time.
The standard kit is the one that comes only with the speakers clamp- the speakers + earphones clamp is an optional extra $ accessory. I do remember seeing that now. Found it:
http://www.sena.com/product/accessories/helmet-clamp-kit-for-speakers-and-earbuds/ (http://www.sena.com/product/accessories/helmet-clamp-kit-for-speakers-and-earbuds/)
$54 extra dollars. The 20S includes that feature at no cost.
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$54 extra dollars. The 20S includes that feature at no cost.
Thanks man. It'd be stupid to buy the old one at basically the same cost. Will get the S20 then. And wait until I actually need it, in case it gets any more improvements.
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Thanks man. It'd be stupid to buy the old one at basically the same cost. Will get the S20 then. And wait until I actually need it, in case it gets any more improvements.
Based on Amazon, even with buying the extra clamp, the 10 still seems to be about $50 cheaper (unless I miscalculated). But at this point, it is probably safe to go with the 20.
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Believe it or not, I got an answer back on the trade in.....they said they'll look at doing something like that in the future once their backlog of 20s is cleared out.
Nice work VirginiaJim! I too have the SMH10 and would love to upgrade to the 20S! I'm thinking about making the move to the 20S toward the end of the year...buy a pair for my wife and I. I do have the need to communicate with others that have a different comms setup so it makes sense to me (it's just convincing the wife to make the move ::))