Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: honzacaf on September 18, 2013, 07:43:11 PM
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Hello all,
I would like to ask if something like this has happened to your Concour?
It's happening in the morning every time I start the motorcycle, and sometimes when the motorcycle is already wormed up.
I have this white smoke coming out from underneath of my front fairing and the space around handlebar. It smells like burned plastic.
I am currently on a military TDY with my motorcycle away from my house so I can not open it up and look into it.
Here is a video with the problem:
http://youtu.be/myB8Z2Mnzb8 (http://youtu.be/myB8Z2Mnzb8)
I am sorry about the music, my pandora started to play.
I have done an oil change, and exchange the batter for a new one. No other modification has been done to it.
The issue has been happening for about two days.
Thank you very much
Honza
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looks like mine did...oil leak at front of engine when warming up...the dreaded cam sensor Oring...or valve cover gasket..just my 2 cents..
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It is likely what the previous post suggested. When you have time clean the front of the engine and header. Brake cleaner works well on a cold engine. When completely clean and dry spray white foot powder over the front of the engine, header and include the cam sensor. Start the engine and look for leaks. The spray powder will make it easier to locate the orgin of the oil leak.
I think "Man of Blues" (Rich) was selling a slightly larger replacement O-Ring. Using another factory ring will just leak again.
Good luck finding the leak, Gary
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A new Pope has been elected? But, assuming this isn't the case...I've had that smell (more like burning leaves) on and off since day one.. So far no ill effects.
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A new Pope has been elected? But, assuming this isn't the case...I've had that smell (more like burning leaves) on and off since day one.. So far no ill effects.
It's an Argentinean Pope, Jim, obviously a nice guy ;)
What others mentioned, and the reason for the only unplanned visit to dealer so far: a few drops of oil coming from the valve cover gasket onto the exhaust header.
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Obviously!
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My Zx14 weeped oil there, among other things. Until the KiPass was invented, I was a total Kawi hater :D
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you really don't need to spray powder in there to see the leak, it will be quite clear by looking at the Cam sensor...you'll see a drip there and it will be wet...
here, follow the directions, I'll send them to you. Don't bother with a Kaw ring, it will still leak again.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13866.msg170699#msg170699 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13866.msg170699#msg170699)
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cam cover , probably.
left front portion , likely.
.
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Thank you very much.
I got back today from my TDY. I'll try to take a look at it tomorrow.
I'll let you know tomorrow.
Thank you
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If I could ever figure out how to post pics I would show the coupon newspaper that flipped up between my header pipes and caught fire. Had me some smoke that day!
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Ahhhh yes the dreaded valve cover gasket and cam oring. Bit of a chronic issue on these bikes....btdt. Hope you get her looked after. A good weekend job if you do yourself!
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This is what I've found:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-gHT0ovB3MlNXp1QmlYRnBlVkE/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-gHT0ovB3MlWlJwdmJXRUFTZjA/edit?usp=sharing
I will have to disassemble my baby one more time and try to get in there to replace the Oring.
Thank you for all of your help, you guys are great
Honza
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If you are just doing the o-ring what I did was pull the side plastic off right side only, pulled the upper engine mount off and pulled out the right side rad fan, then you have a pretty clear shot at the cam sensor. I did mine in about 2 hrs or so. Then you can have a close look at the valve cover gasket. If you need to do it well at least you are part way there.....sort of lol. Mine is an 09, newer ones may be as bit different obviously for plastic removal etc. Good luck to you! A good 1/4" drive ratchet and socket set helps a lot.
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I got this for the first time today and thought of this post.
My question is, if you have the GTPP extended warranty, shouldn't this be covered? I have the warranty and need to take the bike in for a service and front brakes (under warranty) next week.
I did get a flashlight and looked in the openings in the fairings when I got home and I do see oil on and around the left, top header bolt.
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It should be covered...
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I got this for the first time today and thought of this post.
My question is, if you have the GTPP extended warranty, shouldn't this be covered? I have the warranty and need to take the bike in for a service and front brakes (under warranty) next week.
I did get a flashlight and looked in the openings in the fairings when I got home and I do see oil on and around the left, top header bolt.
yeah, it's covered, but the problem is the o-ring they use. It is marginal for sealing that sensor.
The ones I purchased and am sending out are pretty much the tightest fitting ones that will work, and so far we have not had anyone respond that they didn't seal, mine included...
You might want the rings I have if you go in there for repair, and make them put it in for you, and sign off on it.... ;)
I have sent a note to Kaw USA tech, outlining the issue, we'll see if they do another recall.... 8) ;D ;)
then they will buy up all of the available ones and charge $5 each for them.... ::)
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yeah, it's covered, but the problem is the o-ring they use. It is marginal for sealing that sensor.
The ones I purchased and am sending out are pretty much the tightest fitting ones that will work, and so far we have not had anyone respond that they didn't seal, mine included...
You might want the rings I have if you go in there for repair, and make them put it in for you, and sign off on it.... ;)
I have sent a note to Kaw USA tech, outlining the issue, we'll see if they do another recall.... 8) ;D ;)
then they will buy up all of the available ones and charge $5 each for them.... ::)
Even if it's not the cam sensor seal, I will be mailing you an envelope and a $1 bill... PM sent.
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yeah, it's covered, but the problem is the o-ring they use. It is marginal for sealing that sensor.
The ones I purchased and am sending out are pretty much the tightest fitting ones that will work, and so far we have not had anyone respond that they didn't seal, mine included...
You might want the rings I have if you go in there for repair, and make them put it in for you, and sign off on it.... ;)
I have sent a note to Kaw USA tech, outlining the issue, we'll see if they do another recall.... 8) ;D ;)
then they will buy up all of the available ones and charge $5 each for them.... ::)
Hello sir,
I would like to get the Oring, how can I get one from you?
Honza
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I like that avatar. Have both that and the SAC emblem on my shield.
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Uh Jim, we can all see the red cross.
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Yep, I have two shields don't I, but I am talking about the MC shield... ;D
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Hello sir,
I would like to get the Oring, how can I get one from you?
Honza
follow these simple instructions...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13866.msg170699#msg170699 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13866.msg170699#msg170699)
1) send me a p/m with your name, address, and phone number.
2) I will return the p/m with the mailing address
3) send me $1 and a self addressed stamped envelope
4) I send you 2 O-rings in your envelope...
easy.
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I brought my bike in yesterday for the front brakes (warranty) and the leaking that caused me to also get white smoke. I figured it was the cam sensor o-rings like has been mentioned but they told me that both sides of the valve cover gasket were leaking (18k miles on the bike). I had not brought it in for the 15k service in which they check the valve clearances and replace the gasket so they were not going to cover that gasket since Kawi considers it to be"serviceable". So, instead of a smaller bill, I am getting a bigger bill for the 15k service. They are discounting the service and parts 10% and total bill will be just over $700 instead of just shy of $900 (I supplied a K&N air filter instead of having them put a standard one in). They said they were going to take pictures of everything (I assume they do that any time they have warranty issues).
In talking with MAN OF BLUES, he thinks that the valve cover gasket should not leak since it had never been removed (I agree with that) and that Kawi should cover it. What do you guys think? I will go get it in about 3 hours.
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They are full of :censored: in a major way... It should be covered. This is the dealer talking, not Kwak Central.
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They are full of :censored: in a major way... It should be covered. This is the dealer talking, not Kwak Central.
So, now what? I told them to do the 15k service based on their recommendation. Should I fight the cost of part of the work? Or should I have done the 15k service when I got to 15k and this would be a mute point?
I have had other bikes in the past and never done any major work on them like this even though I rode them to 30k miles and then sold them. Just replace the chain when needed, oil changes and such.
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Fighting it with the dealer won't help as they're the issue. It's up to you on what to do but I'd find another dealer in your area if you can.
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Dare we suggest to call Mark?
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Well, it's a done deal this time around. $773 out of pocket. :-\
I asked about shims and such for the valve adjustments and they said everything was within spec so they didn't do anything other than check them. I will check around at other dealers next time.
The service guy told me they would take pictures to show where the oil leak was coming from but the tech did all the work before the service guy even got into work this morning so it was all cleaned up with no pictures. From the original quote, that is about $140 cheaper than what they normally charge for the 15k service.
Oh, and they did replace the spark plugs since Kawi recommends that and i know many on here say the plugs are good for 100000 miles. They charged $16 per plug.
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Well, it's a done deal this time around. $773 out of pocket. :-\
I asked about shims and such for the valve adjustments and they said everything was within spec so they didn't do anything other than check them. I will check around at other dealers next time.
The service guy told me they would take pictures to show where the oil leak was coming from but the tech did all the work before the service guy even got into work this morning so it was all cleaned up with no pictures. From the original quote, that is about $140 cheaper than what they normally charge for the 15k service.
Oh, and they did replace the spark plugs since Kawi recommends that and i know many on here say the plugs are good for 100000 miles. They charged $16 per plug.
Did they give you the plugs they removed, @ $16 a piece?
I'd be wanting those for sure, as they were fine, and could be re-used.... I don't believe any of us here that have done them found them even close to needing replacement.
I also noted when we chatted in p/m mode, that they needed to record the actual clearances for each valve, so YOU could decide when the next inspection interval would be needed.... they completely snowed you as many dealerships have done. Not acceptable in any manner, if they didn't write down each clearance.
I'd be willing to bet they never replaced the gasket either, as the time frame your service actually underwent was not sufficient to get a replacement gasket in for install, I say the removed it, cleaned it, and re-installed it using sealants.... likely never even checked the cam clearances...
A lot of us here know actually how long it takes to do this service, and to get the parts in hand for it (no dealership will have that gasket on the shelf...)
as for them not agreeing to install the o-rings I sent you, because they weren't OEM... they had a lot of nerve installing a K&N filter.... ::) ::)
and they also completed your front brake issue? and had parts?, all within one working day..?? ::)..
I'm calling B/S on thier part (not on you, on them, you are innocent ;) ...).
I really hate slimey dealerships. >:(
Glad I had a good one in Richmond, and another good one here in Ohio.
Not that I'd have them do periodic maintenece, but when I need warrenty work, they came thru with flying colors.
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Did they give you the plugs they removed, @ $16 a piece?
I'd be wanting those for sure, as they were fine, and could be re-used.... I don't believe any of us here that have done them found them even close to needing replacement.
I also noted when we chatted in p/m mode, that they needed to record the actual clearances for each valve, so YOU could decide when the next inspection interval would be needed.... they completely snowed you as many dealerships have done. Not acceptable in any manner, if they didn't write down each clearance.
I'd be willing to bet they never replaced the gasket either, as the time frame your service actually underwent was not sufficient to get a replacement gasket in for install, I say the removed it, cleaned it, and re-installed it using sealants.... likely never even checked the cam clearances...
A lot of us here know actually how long it takes to do this service, and to get the parts in hand for it (no dealership will have that gasket on the shelf...)
as for them not agreeing to install the o-rings I sent you, because they weren't OEM... they had a lot of nerve installing a K&N filter.... ::) ::)
and they also completed your front brake issue? and had parts?, all within one working day..?? ::)..
I'm calling B/S on thier part (not on you, on them, you are innocent ;) ...).
I really hate slimey dealerships. >:(
Glad I had a good one in Richmond, and another good one here in Ohio.
Not that I'd have them do periodic maintenece, but when I need warrenty work, they came thru with flying colors.
I agree that I should have received the old spark plugs, I never even thought to ask. And they simply said that all clearances were within spec. They were going off what Kawi says to do even if it doesn't need to be done. Not something I fully agree with, but they followed the recommendations.
As for the gasket, the service guy told me that had a single one in stock that they could use (there are quite a few other Concours' out in this area, so maybe they have them in stock?).
The brake issue, they got the O.K. from Kawasaki about 3 weeks ago and the parts came in about a week ago.
As for having the time to do all of this, they started working on it as soon as I left the dealer (4pm) and had access to the valve cover by 5:45 when he called to say that was where it was leaking. The shop tech's then get in at 8am and the service department doesn't open until 10am which is why no pictures.
I don't fully agree with how they handled it, but it wasn't as bad as you think it was. Could it be done better, you bet your ass it could be. Will they change how they work based on a single customer, never.
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Hi,
What bugs me is,as I listen or read posts on the valve inspections it seems that if the dealership does it at 15,000 the clearance is always good but if the owner does it,he's always replacing 8 or 9 shims????
I just got my new service manual ($85) and I'm getting Freds videos and going to see what I can do! I keep my old pick up running, why not!
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Did the O-Ring replacement today. Ended up taking 5 or 6 hours, as I also cleaned things up quite a bit, drained and replaced the coolant, added an SAE battery cable, etc. If you need to replace your coolant, this is an excellent time to do it--the radiator is much easier to handle when empty...
There was quite a bit of oil all over the front of the heads, top to bottom. With that amount of oil everywhere, I'm concerned that it may also suffer from a leaky head gasket, but I couldn't easily tell, and had to get things buttoned up for a ride tomorrow. You can see where I cleaned things up a bit before removing the sensor.
By the way, the exhaust bolts were all very loose. Tightened them all to 13 ft/lbs. That may be contributing to the mess as well.
Thanks to Man of Blues for the O-rings!
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Loose exhaust nuts have nothing to do with the oil issue. You may have a leaking valve cover gasket. Did you rule that out?
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Loose exhaust nuts have nothing to do with the oil issue. You may have a leaking valve cover gasket. Did you rule that out?
No, didn't rule it out. I think it's likely, due to the amount of oil. I doubt it all came out of the sensor. Another winter project.
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No, didn't rule it out. I think it's likely, due to the amount of oil. I doubt it all came out of the sensor. Another winter project.
Oil leaks are hard to pinpoint more often than not, oil has a way of moving and spreading around to fool you where it is coming from.