Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: mlarivie on July 31, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
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Bike is an 09' I recently did the oversize 55 swap and though its geared down a tiny bit have noticed my gas mileage has suffered horribly. I am running 37 PSI in front and back. I usually travel at 85mph on the highway here in New england and the computer reports a steady mpg of 33... Typically when my road star got this bad it was time for a valve adjustment and TB sync... I'm at 11000 miles currently.
2 Questions...
Am I due for some maintenance, frame bolt check?
Has anyone switched to a smaller tire (if available) for taller gearing?
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Not sure I ever got as low as 33 mpg but I do notice my mileage goes way down above 80 mph. Will be putting a 55 on this week for the first time. I wouldn't expect any difference in mpg but will be looking out for it.
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So far I've noticed the lean in is nicer, but when its raining the bike feels looser.
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Just for grins. Air your tires up to 42 and slow down just a tad and see what happens. I'm not trying to tell you that you're going too fast, so don't get me wrong there. I'm the same way and I satisfy my need for speed every day that I ride.
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I would definitely say air up your tires a little more, I ran 42 psi on my last ride to Crater Lake and I noticed a several mpg increase (despite riding uphill at a fast clip). Only downside is the ride is considerably more firm.
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I went from 42 to 39 US MPG with the 55 tire swap. I am running the Michelin PR3's. This is the indicated MPG only, dont forget your computer is still figuring distance related to the stock tire. You will also notice your speedometer is reading about the right speed now, not the factory set 2 - 3% high. Your odometer will read a similar percentage lower. If you really want to check MPG use a GPS for distance, and the fuel station pump reading for Gallons. Or just allow for the 2 - 3 % it is reading low. I would think 33 is about right for those speeds and low tire pressure. Don't forget your ECO Mode doesn't work at those speeds (not sure if 2009 has ECO Mode).
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Im going to have it nitro filled at 42 this afternoon like I do on my C5 vette. It's worth every penny. I will report back later, but wish I bought a 50 tire!
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Im going to have it nitro filled at 42 this afternoon like I do on my C5 vette. It's worth every penny. I will report back later, but wish I bought a 50 tire!
We've had the nitrogen discussion here before and the consensus? Snake oil.
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I can see that, I guess it matters when youve got 4 to balance out (left and right). I'll just air it up to 42! Thanks
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Your windshield, and it's position, will have more of an effect on gas mileage than a slightly taller tire will.
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Alternately, on the next rear tire swap you could go for a 180/55, which is has a sharper profile, is slightly taller than the 190/50 stocker, is lighter, and less expensive. There's no real gain in going with a 190-width tire over a 180 on these bikes. Just my $.02...
Oh, and on the current tire, 37psi is way too low. Based on the manufacturer recommended 42psi for the stock sized tire and the change in surface area of the new tire compared to the old one, 41.3psi will give the same % of the tire as a contact patch. In other words, in order to keep the percentage of the available surface in contact with the ground (thus slightly increasing the size of said tire patch), you need to reduce the pressure by less than a pound.
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Your windshield, and it's position, will have more of an effect on gas mileage than a slightly taller tire will.
DEFINITELY!
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I expected that as well, so I tucked in- shield down, with about 34 reading on the dash. I have a shad 50 on the back as well.
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My Aeroflow shield seems to affect fuel mileage less than any I have ever used before. Also the hotter it is the better my mileage is. I got actual 48 MPH on the highway a few weeks ago during the recent heat wave.
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Aeroflow tall, Guhl reflash and Area P pipe, BMC Filter.
About 36 mpg when cruising around 80 ish. MPG has always been a bit disappointing.
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Need to buy a TDI
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This is all new to me, just checking with the crowd to see if it sounds norm!
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That tire pressure is a bit low I think- try between 40 and 42 PSI cold.
The larger rear tire should not hurt mileage. In fact, at highway speeds, it should improve it slightly. All else being equal, and assuming the engine is running beyond the lugging range (which is quite low on a C-14), mileage will increase as engine speed drops (by using higher gears for the same speed). At 85 MPH, you are absolutely NOT lugging that engine- it will be turning just over 3,500 RPM.
The other big differences in mileage will come from the load the bike is carrying (weight) and headwinds. The absolute worst mileage I ever got on a C-14 was in South Dakota, fighting headwinds that seemed to be about 200 MPH. Instantaneous mileage dropped from an indicated 43.X to 29 MPG! But I doubt you have anything like those conditions in New England unless you are riding on top of Mt. Washington.
You should be able to do a bit better than 33 MPH but that also assumes you are riding a steady 85, not an average of 85 with large throttle openings used here and there, for example passing cars. Accelerating from 85 MPH will absolutely kill your average mileage if it is done at all regularly on a ride.
Brian
Bike is an 09' I recently did the oversize 55 swap and though its geared down a tiny bit have noticed my gas mileage has suffered horribly. I am running 37 PSI in front and back. I usually travel at 85mph on the highway here in New england and the computer reports a steady mpg of 33... Typically when my road star got this bad it was time for a valve adjustment and TB sync... I'm at 11000 miles currently.
2 Questions...
Am I due for some maintenance, frame bolt check?
Has anyone switched to a smaller tire (if available) for taller gearing?
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Need to buy a TDI
+1
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Bike is an 09' I recently did the oversize 55 swap and though its geared down a tiny bit have noticed my gas mileage has suffered horribly. I am running 37 PSI in front and back. I usually travel at 85mph on the highway here in New england and the computer reports a steady mpg of 33... Typically when my road star got this bad it was time for a valve adjustment and TB sync... I'm at 11000 miles currently.
2 Questions...
Am I due for some maintenance, frame bolt check?
Has anyone switched to a smaller tire (if available) for taller gearing?
Like others say...
1) Gas mileage will suffer greatly at speeds in the 75+ range
2) You are running your tires way too low in pressure. They SHOULD be around 42. Running them 37 will create a lot of extra friction (and wear) and affect gas mileage.
3) Changing the tire size slightly will not affect MPG. But if it is not the correct (OEM) diameter, it will affect both the speedometer and odometer, changing your computations.
4) Inflating with Nitrogen will not affect performance, wear, or mileage.
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Running a 55 on my '09 gave a slight bump in ACTUAL mileage, but my engine is bone stock with secondary flies intact. Normal for me is 38-41 mpg.
I also pay zero attention to instant or average mpg, since I only ever watch the tire pressure screen on the display.
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Are you sure about that? I thought I heard a rumor that nitrogen reacts badly with the TPS's on some motorcycles....? Or did I just start that rumor? Does nitrogen work OK in car tires on a motorcycle.
Now before anyone gets his / her knickers in a twist, nitrogen and the bike are perfectly compatible. I was merely kidding.... seriously. Well, not seriously kidding but kidding seriously.
Brian
<snip>
4) Inflating with Nitrogen will not affect performance, wear, or mileage.
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Here we go AGAIN
"A member of the Dodge Challenger owners' forum was buying a new car from a dealer and noticed green valve-stem caps on all four tires. The salesman told him that the tires had been filled with nitrogen, which would keep the tire pressure and temperature more consistent and that it would prevent tire rot from the inside out. It wasn't a free add-on, though. The "nitrogen upgrade" was a $69 item on the supplemental window sticker. Another forum member later posted that his dealer was charging $179 for this same "upgrade."
Some dealerships and tire stores claim that filling your tires with nitrogen will save you money on gas while offering better performance than air. But a closer look reveals that nitrogen has few benefits and much higher costs. For starters, a typical nitrogen fill-up will cost you about $6 per tire.
Why Nitrogen?
The Get Nitrogen Institute Web site says that with nitrogen tire inflation, drivers will note improvements in a vehicle's handling, fuel efficiency and tire life. All this is achieved through better tire-pressure retention, improved fuel economy and cooler-running tire temperatures, the institute says.
This sounds great in theory but let's take a closer look at each of those claims.
•Better tire-pressure retention: Over time, a tire will gradually lose pressure. Changes in temperature will accelerate this. The general rule of thumb is a loss of 1 psi for every 10-degree rise or fall in temperature. The institute says that nitrogen has a more stable pressure, since it has larger molecules than oxygen that are less likely to seep through the permeable tire walls.
In 2006, Consumer Reports conducted a year-long study to determine how much air loss was experienced in tires filled with nitrogen versus those filled with air. The results showed that nitrogen did reduce pressure loss over time, but it was only a 1.3 psi difference from air-filled tires. Among 31 pairs of tires, the average loss of air-filled tires was 3.5 psi from the initial 30 psi setting. Nitrogen-filled tires lost an average of 2.2 psi from the initial setting. Nitrogen won the test, but not by a significant margin.
•Improved fuel economy: The EPA says that under-inflated tires can lower gas mileage by 0.3 percent for every 1 psi drop in pressure of all four tires. The theory is that since nitrogen loses pressure at a slower rate than air, you are more likely to be at the correct psi and therefore get better fuel economy.
If you are proactive and check your tire pressure at least once a month, you can offset this difference with free air, and you won't need expensive nitrogen. We think this invalidates the "better fuel economy with nitrogen" argument.
For many people, however, this kind of maintenance is easier said than done. Most people either forget to regularly check and top off their tires, or never learned how to do it in the first place. Even Edmunds employees (typically a pretty car-savvy group) were under-inflating or over-inflating their tires, according to a tire-pressure study we conducted a few years ago.
And though tire-pressure monitoring systems (TPMS) now come standard on cars, a 2009 National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) study found that only 57 percent of vehicles with TPMS had the correct tire pressure. That's because most systems are only meant to signal that a tire has very low pressure, not to show that the pressure is optimal.
•Cooler running temperatures: When air is pressurized, the humidity in it condenses to a liquid and collects in the air storage tank you use at the local gas station. When you add compressed air to the tire, the water comes along for the ride. As the tire heats up during driving, that water changes to a gas, which then expands, increasing tire pressure. Because nitrogen is dry, there is no water in the tire to contribute to pressure fluctuations.
But this fluctuation in temperature isn't as significant as you might think. A 2008 ExxonMobil study plotted the changes in temperature over the course of various inflation pressures. The lines on the graph were virtually on top of each other. In other words, the change in temperature when using nitrogen was negligible.
•Prevent wheel rot: Nitrogen proponents will also point out that water in a tire can lead to wheel rot. A tire engineer who anonymously maintains Barry's Tire Tech, a blog on a number of tire issues, says this isn't really a problem with modern cars.
"Alloy wheels don't really have a problem with water inside the tire," the engineer writes in a post on nitrogen inflation. "They are coated to keep aluminum from forming aluminum oxide, which forms a crust, which isn't very attractive. But even then, this crust protects the aluminum from further corrosion from the water."
Where wheels have problems is when the aluminum alloy contacts steel, such as the steel spring clip used on wheel weights. It's a particular issue when salt is present, the engineer writes. "But this problem is totally independent of the inflation gas," he says. "Steel wheels only have a problem if the paint is damaged."
Cost and Convenience
Let's say a person bought a set of tires at Costco, a place that uses nitrogen to fill all the tires they sell. If he needs to top off the tires with more nitrogen, he won't be able to go to just any gas station. He can use regular air if there is nothing else available, but that would dilute the nitrogen in the tires. He'll have to go back to Costco and wait until the tire technicians can attend to the car. On a busy day, he could be there awhile.
Nitrogen is free at Costco and at some car dealerships we called, but these are rare cases. We called a number of tire shops that carry nitrogen and found that the prices for a nitrogen fill ranged from $5-$7 per tire. Assuming our consumer was diligent about checking his tires monthly, he could potentially spend about $84 a year on nitrogen alone per tire. Compare that to the most gas stations, where air is free or a 75-cent fill-up for all four tires at the most.
Finding tire shops with nitrogen could be an issue, too. We called a number of large chains, including America's Tire Co., Discount Tire and Walmart. None carried nitrogen.
Is Nitrogen Worth It?
The air we breathe is made up of 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and a few other elements. To get the desired benefits for tires, nitrogen needs to be at least 93 percent pure, according to nitrogen service equipment providers quoted on Tirerack.com. So we're basically talking about adding an extra 15 percent of nitrogen and getting rid of as much oxygen as possible.
Based on cost, convenience and actual performance benefit, we don't think nitrogen is worth it. A much better use of your money would be to buy a good tire-pressure gauge and check your tires frequently. This is a good idea even if you have a tire-pressure monitoring system in your vehicle. The warning lights aren't required to come on until you have less than 25 percent of the recommended tire pressure. Having the correct tire pressure will get you many of the benefits of using nitrogen and will ensure that your tires last longer."
Did you see that air is already 78% nitrogen so you are getting 15% more for X $$ so go buy a tire gauge fill up your tires to ---PROPER-- pressure and get some sleep :grouphug:
Salemen will sell you ... what you don't need to make a $.
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I finally got over watching MPG. I don't even pay attention any more. It was only frustratng anyhow.
These days, I resign myself to the fact that, anytime I go for a ride, it's gonna prolly take 2 fill ups to get me home. I don't wear my glasses at the gas pump, so I don't even know how much it costs, LOL! I am a lot happier now that MPG doesn't clutter up my subconscious! Just ride, baby!
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I probably spend more time over 85 than anyone here. I run with a 55L trunk and screen all the way down unless it's raining or freezing. Both bikes a 2010 and 2011 always in ECO mode. 42 psi cold in the 50 series tire. The 2010 is sitting at 43 mpg and the and the 2011 is at 45 mpg. I don't change my speeds much. I run a nice steady throttle and I get my best mpg. locked in at 95 mph. I find it hard to believe myself, but this is the first year I tried this method and it keeps staying higher and higher.
I love my VW TDI Passat and that stays around 48-50 mpg when I drive and 40-42 mpg for the wife.
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Don't put too much stock in the MPG shown on the screen...for my bike at least, actual MPG computed by dividing miles driven by volume to fill, is considerably less than indicated. Not picking on Kaw, because this is also true of my Ford F-150, my car, and the wife's Focus. In my experience, dash indicators of MPG are extremely optimistic....no matter the vehicle. My unproven theory is that this overstatement is due to an assumed quantity of energy contained in the fuel being less than actual energy content, due to presemce of ethanol.
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Don't put too much stock in the MPG shown on the screen...for my bike at least, actual MPG computed by dividing miles driven by volume to fill, is considerably less than indicated. Not picking on Kaw, because this is also true of my Ford F-150, my car, and the wife's Focus. In my experience, dash indicators of MPG are extremely optimistic....no matter the vehicle. My unproven theory is that this overstatement is due to an assumed quantity of energy contained in the fuel being less than actual energy content, due to presemce of ethanol.
No doubt that ethanol reduces mileage but I assumed the computer used fuel flow based on what the ECU is commanding of the injectors and the speed. I wouldn't be surprised if the optimism is deliberate. You always want your customers to feel good about your product. ;)
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My 2012 Chevy truck came with the nitrogen "option" that wasn't really optional. But for the $99 charge, I get lifetime refills at the stealership. The only problem is that their only nitrogen machine for doing it is down the street at their Hyundai dealership.
My truck, Malibu, and Connie all are "optimistic" on gas mileage. If you really want to know, do the calculation yourself.
My Malibu has one sensor that is chronically a couple of psi high, two that are pretty much spot on, and one that reads 3-5 psi low and causes my warning light to come on sometimes (not sure where that 25% low statement comes from, Cuda). That low reading sensor also gets me an email from OnStar telling me to check my tires.
And I need more data before I'll believe Scaffolder gets his best mileage at 95 mph. Defies the laws of physics, aerodynamics, etc. Are you sure you're not at 95 kph? That would make WAY more sense. (And ECO mode does nothing for you at those speeds.)
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My computer and division are very close. I took a 270 mile trip to work and back. I top off every day. My first receipt is 5.002 gallons. Second one is 1.283. That comes to 42.959 mpg. if I'm doing it right. lol. It would be higher, but my last few days were going from Wells Maine to Keene N.H. The worst areas near me to ride fast. If anyone is from around here, they'll agree. When I go from Wells to Boston, I can and do really open it up. ECU is always lit up at any speed that you are not winding up the RPMs.
Like I said I always got about 37-39 mpg before I started doing the high speed steady throttle thing. I have racked up about 92,000 miles on three different C-14s. Two of them had the ECO mode switch and I always put it on. I also only use 93 octane gas.
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Car tire chat next please
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Ran 2600 miles recently, on 41-42 psi, and average MPG was 43 running at California highway speed. Maybe a tad bit faster but no more than 85. I like the windscreen where I can hear my music in my helmet and remove the harsh sound of air. I also notice I get better mileage when the engine is hot, rather than cool. I have a 2009 with just at 14000.
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Did 1800 miles round trip down the Skyline Drive/BlueRidge Parkway to TN from NJ and Superslabbed it back and averaged 44.8 for the trip according to the screen. Interestingly mileage dropped when I crossed the Deleware river on the return trip...
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My computer and division are very close. I took a 270 mile trip to work and back. I top off every day. My first receipt is 5.002 gallons. Second one is 1.283. That comes to 42.959 mpg. if I'm doing it right. lol. It would be higher, but my last few days were going from Wells Maine to Keene N.H. The worst areas near me to ride fast. If anyone is from around here, they'll agree. When I go from Wells to Boston, I can and do really open it up. ECU is always lit up at any speed that you are not winding up the RPMs.
Like I said I always got about 37-39 mpg before I started doing the high speed steady throttle thing. I have racked up about 92,000 miles on three different C-14s. Two of them had the ECO mode switch and I always put it on. I also only use 93 octane gas.
This is true. The computer will tell you when you're riding the most economical way at whatever speed you're at. Basically, it tells you that you are not going on and off throttle a lot.
That is different from the ECO mode where you flip the switch, which only does something to the fuel mapping (leaner) when you're below a certain speed, rpm, and throttle position. (It's explained in the owner's manual and in other threads on the forum.) All are parameters which you would not meet if you're running at those higher speeds.
EDIT:
ECO mode is active when:
1. RPM is less that 6,000
2. Throttle position is less than 30%
3. Speed is less than 80 mph. (My manual says 152 mph, but that's a misprint. The Kawi website says 80.)
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This is true. The computer will tell you when you're riding the most economical way at whatever speed you're at. Basically, it tells you that you are not going on and off throttle a lot.
That is different from the ECO mode where you flip the switch, which only does something to the fuel mapping (leaner) when you're below a certain speed, rpm, and throttle position. (It's explained in the owner's manual and in other threads on the forum.) All are parameters which you would not meet if you're running at those higher speeds.
EDIT:
ECO mode is active when:
1. RPM is less that 6,000
2. Throttle position is less than 30%
3. Speed is less than 80 mph. (My manual says 152 mph, but that's a misprint. The Kawi website says 80.)
I would spend less time in the manual and get your bike on the highway. Then put the eco mode on. Have the computer show current mpg. Hit 90mph or 100mph. Throw on a Cat O-ring. Both eco lights will be on and mpg will stay around 45mpg. Or even higher.
The Kawi website lies.
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You would go to jail around here driving that fast,
I'd like to keep my clean class a CDL license.
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Just got a brand new bike and staying within the break in advice, that still allows for 80mph+, I averaged 50mpg. Over the Snowys at10,000 feet. Some interstate and some canyon carving.
Brilliant!
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Just got a brand new bike and staying within the break in advice, that still allows for 80mph+, I averaged 50mpg. Over the Snowys at10,000 feet. Some interstate and some canyon carving.
Brilliant!
Congrats and welcome to the forum! Where are the "Snowys"?
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Who cares about mileage? You bought a big fast heavy motorcycle that's made to go FAST. It's like marrying Ms Universe and complaining she won't vacuum? WTF, you're married to Ms Universe, why is there even a conversation about vacuuming? IMO (and this will surely invoke howls of protest), if you're bragging about how good of mileage you're getting, you are in fact saying "Look how I am totally not using this motorcycle for its intended purpose".
Cane that thing and forget mileage! Or sell it to someone who will actually open the throttle and visit redline once in a blue moon and start using this for commuting! [/soapbox]
Man, I gotta learn how to come out of my shell.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/2001_Buick_Century.jpg)
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That's a nice car.
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Just got a brand new bike and staying within the break in advice, that still allows for 80mph+, I averaged 50mpg. Over the Snowys at10,000 feet. Some interstate and some canyon carving.
Brilliant!
Welcome! 1,000,000 threads on MPG. Mine averages 45 or something like that.
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Mine averages 45 or something like that.
No shocker there... ::)
Try twisting the throttle every now and then, it's actually a very fun bike when opened up... ;)
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Try twisting the throttle every now and then, it's actually a very fun bike when opened up... ;)
I do. It takes what, 2.5 seconds to get to 60? Maybe 3 to get to 75? 1 second to pass/blow away a sports car? Doesn't happen all THAT much during a ride... In fact, it is pretty rare.