Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: thundermax on November 19, 2012, 08:42:03 PM
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Just bought a 2009c14 with 17.6k miles. Doubt a first valve adjustment has been done. Think it is recommended to do it at 15k miles. Please post and tell me how you handle recommended valve adjustments. One service writer said typically you do not need it so early. He said the tech would listen to the motor and depending upon what he heard, he would tell the writer it did or did not need an adjustment at that time.
Really interested in what all you c14 owners handle this service.
Also, while talking service, I will change air filter, oil and filter, rear tranny oil, check coolant. Anything else? Did not think front fork oil needed looking at.
When I get it on Wednesday, plan to take it to dealer for recall fix. Has not been done yet.
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The answer is 'It depends'. My advice would be to get it done as you know little of the bike's history. A bike ridden 'harder' seems to create a bit more wear in the valve train than one that doesn't (based on anecdotal evidence and not scientific at all). The fork oil should be done as well as it's a 2009. Mine is an 08 and it definitely needs the fork oil changed as I can feel the difference here lately in the front action. Plugs should be ok. Bleed both the clutch and brake lines.
I would not depend on someone doing a listening test as to whether to do a valve adjust check. If they don't want to do the valve work, take it somewhere else. Quiet could mean they're too tight. This bike has a tendency to tighten up, not loosen.
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Listening to a motor will NOT tell you what the clearances are. Mine sounded fine. 15 out of 16 shims needed replacing. One of those was within specs, but was close enough that I changed it to bring it closer to the middle.
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Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.
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If the valves were in spec when assembled
I think it is a pretty big "If" to assume that 100 percent of the valves were in spec when assembled and even if one were to agree with everything else you said.....everyone should check their valve clearances at least once close to the recommended interval. I know of at least one FJR owner who didn't check his valve clearances (FJR's rarely need to be re-shimmed) and had a burned valve at 50K miles.
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I don't trust Kwak past my arm when it comes to any adjustments being right.... That was on the C10 and also my C14. I 'passed' my first check at 18k and will do at least one more in the next month or two. I do have a mechanic that I trust at a dealership close by.
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Just bought a 2009c14 with 17.6k miles. Doubt a first valve adjustment has been done. Think it is recommended to do it at 15k miles. Please post and tell me how you handle recommended valve adjustments. One service writer said typically you do not need it so early. He said the tech would listen to the motor and depending upon what he heard, he would tell the writer it did or did not need an adjustment at that time.
Really interested in what all you c14 owners handle this service.
Also, while talking service, I will change air filter, oil and filter, rear tranny oil, check coolant. Anything else? Did not think front fork oil needed looking at.
When I get it on Wednesday, plan to take it to dealer for recall fix. Has not been done yet.
I also have a 2009 model and did a valve clearance adjustment at 17,500 miles. Of the 16 valves, five of them were too tight, many others were within specifications but on the verge of being too tight. By the time the job was done to my satisfaction I had swapped many of the shims to center the tolerances and replaced half a dozen or so. All told, 15 of the 16 shims had either been replaced or moved to get the whole valve train in the center of specifications. There is no way a mechanic working for an hourly wage will ever approach this degree of accuracy. He may be an extremely competent individual but it isn't his bike and he does not have the time it takes to do more than what is absolutely necessary. I have the time, the ability, the tools and the patience to be meticulous. But most importantly - I own and ride the bike and therefore care more about the quality of the job than anyone else can possibly have. By the way, mine were all close enough to being "within spec" that the majority of the people you hire to do the job will tell you that all is well and button it up. Thus avoiding the extra time and effort it takes to remove the cams and make the appropriate adjustments while still being paid a large sum of money for their assurance that everything is just hunky-dory when it really isn't. Mine fell within this hunky-dory category but 15 of the 16 shims were changed when I was done.
I would contact the person who sold the bike to you and ask if a shim adjustment had been made and what other service has been done. If you cannot contact this person then simply assume that nothing has been done.
I use synthetic oil in both the engine/transmission and in the final drive and suggest you do the same. Be sure to inspect all of the brake pads and clean the brake pistons. I would also change the brake and clutch fluid. As for the forks, I have yet to change the oil but the majority of my riding is done on smooth roads that don’t give the suspension much of a workout. You don't know where yours has been so your ought to change the fluid. I think that a coolant change is also in order. If you're going to work on the bike yourself, put a wrench on every fastener you can reach to make sure everything tight. I bought mine new and still found several nuts and bolts to be loose. I don't think this was done at the factory but by the incompetent individual who took the bike out of the crate and got it ready for the showroom floor. I use a K&N air filter and recommend it or one from one of its competitors that use oil to assist the filtration process. If your bike has the stock windshield, I recommend getting one that is tall enough to get your head out of the wind. I use the Cee Bailey extra tall Ultra Tour Domed shield. I am 5'8" and can see over it when it is in the lowest position and only need to raise it an inch to eliminate all buffeting while still being able to see over it. I have found that the less you have to raise the shield the less wind reaches your hands. Cold hands are less responsive than warm hands and hand dexterity is essential to the safe operation of a motorcycle. I also have heated grips and use electrically heated gloves from Gerbing's.
The most important bit of advice I can offer is to completely disregard the advice of elektradw. In my opinion, he is about as clueless as one can get and as is frequently the case with such folks, has very strong but erroneous opinions and is more than willing to share his ignorance with others.
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Valve check doesnt concern me much either, I might have them checked at 50K.
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Had my 09 checked by a competent dealer I trust at 20k a while back..all within spec. Just checked and adjusted again yesterday by same dealer at 48k. I had myself convinced I was probably wasting my money this round since at 20k they were in spec and didn't expect them to move much..but I play it safe.
Results, 2 intakes were tight and 1 exhaust loose. The tech also adjusted 2 add'l intakes closer to the middle of spec since the cams were out. I run the bike spirited but by no means flog it every time out and very rarely get near the rev limiter. The throttle bodies were also balanced and it is definitely a smoother, sweeter running bike. When the clearances change slowly over time, it's hard to notice any degradation in performance. You can call bs but the smoothness is without question noticeable after the adjustments.
My point is the clearances can definitely change as the miles add up. It's your motor..do what makes you comfortable. I plan to keep this bike at least until it hits 75k ...most likely past 100k. Don't need a burnt valve and I know people it has happened to. It won't see a valve check now probably until 80k at this point. YMMV.
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I had my mechanic do my 2010 at 25K, 50K, and probably will never do it again.
At about 200K I'll probably part this biatch out on ebay.
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I have no intention of ever opening the valve train on my '11 to even inspect the valves. My '08 has 182,000 miles as of October. At 50k I checked the valves and found all within allowable range per Kawa service manual. Same at 100k, never looked since. I have seen many engines fail due to dealer service errors. Point is when you have a reliable machine, let it be. Works for me.
Mu 2001 Goldwing had 420k miles on it when I sold it and it was still running strong with no appreciable wear. Bike is still in service. Never checked the valves. Replaced plugs and air filter every 100k. Oil and filter were changed at 25k intervals along with final drive oil. Bike never missed a beat. No failures, never let me down. Just gas and go.
On the other hand my BMW's self destructed on schedule despite adhering to factory maintenance intervals.
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Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?
Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.
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Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?
Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.
Unlikely IMHO.
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Man are we at opposite ends on valve adjustments! I think one thing is for sure : Kawa will cancel the warranty if they can on damage due to the owner not doing suggested maintenance?
Met the tech at Ajax Kawa in OKC. Red, a 41 yr old. 18 yrs at House of Kawa in OKC, 5 yrs. at Ajax Kawa. He really seemed to know his stuff but I have never used him.
I do not really know, never been there. Has anyone reading this been in the situation?
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I had three dealers tell me it was a waste of time to check them per the book. I had mine checked at 28,000 miles and they were all in spec. But as Jim said above, you don't know the history of the bike so I might be a good idea.
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I have an 08. I checked mine at 36k, all were in spec with a few on the tight side. I set them all to the loose end and will check again next year (around 70k); if they are in spec, I will set them to the loose end and never check them again.
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I have a 08 and had them checked at 20k and no adjustments needed... Then just last month at 48k I had them checked again and they said 4 needed adjusted but there was a valve cover leak the first time so that waranty work helped to offset some of the cost and then on the 2nd one I found out afterwards that the valve cove was leaking again but because it was not detected and submitted prior that I couldn't do the same thing as the first time...
But I'm inclined to say that every 25k miles at the earliest is often enough.... Plugs replaced at the 48k mile service for the first time as well.
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I've been concerned about this very issue as my '08 is approaching 20k and the valves have never been done. Thanks to all who have posted. The guilt-o-meter has settled down now and I may have them checked soon if It will make me feel better, which from the general consenses seems to be one of the main reasons for this service.
From C14boy...
"On the other hand my BMW's self destructed on schedule despite adhering to factory maintenance intervals."
Kawasaki must build one hell of a motor! ;)
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In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.
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In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.
What thread were you reading? Look at the 3rd posting :
Listening to a motor will NOT tell you what the clearances are. Mine sounded fine. 15 out of 16 shims needed replacing. One of those was within specs, but was close enough that I changed it to bring it closer to the middle.
There were several other posts in this thread that stated they had one or more valves that needed adjusting, suggesting they were out of spec. There have also been several threads over the last few years where lots of owners stated they had valves out of spec.
When I checked the valves on my 2010 (myself) at 24,463 miles, 2 were out of spec, and several more were at or near the limit. I also moved them all to the middle of the spec.
For a bike that's never been checked, I think the biggest reason to check them is to establish a base line. If the factory assembler messed something up, it's better to find out earlier than later (and they do mess things up, regardless of what you think of their "quality controls").
As for you're statements about Bud and those like him being paranoid, one could argue that you are also being paranoid, on the opposite side of the issue. Many C14 owners have adjusted the valves on their C14's WITHOUT disastrous results (well, except maybe Haraldo), and if they have the skills and patience, should not be discouraged to do so. It will not bring on the downfall of society, or cause the planet to stop spinning, or make the sun go out. It will just result in them being proud of doing the job themselves, or humbled when they take it to the dealer to fix whatever they did wrong.
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In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.
Sir, thanks for stopping by and sharing your oppinions....and vast knowledge of this engine, and the associated database of the accumulation of many of us here that have 5 years on this bike so far.
Coining the phrase "kooks", following the rediculous diatribe you have laid out here wins zero in the credibility file....especially from some of us that HAVE been inside the engine....more than once....because WE DO have the tools and skillset to accomplish something you apparently do not have...
I was the Technical Editor of The Concours Owners Group at the time of the first C14's release, bought it to make sure I could provide the tech advice that needed to be shared.
I checked valve clearance @ 16k, and again at just over 20k, and swapped and moved shims, and replaced others, along with swapping Bucket positions, to provide maximum duration between future swaps... (i.e. took them to the upper threashold of the range.)
as iot was 7 of the valves were at or less than the lowest limit.
I have posted here, and so have others, the amount of shim/valve settings that were not within the operating parameters, but actually BELOW the limits fo clearances.
Your opinions are just that. Opinions. And the thought that everything that went on when the first couple years of engines were assembled in tha factory "perfectly" is rediculous....what world are you living in?
With 7 posts under your belt. you might be better off adjusting your hatband a bit, and not dis' the folks here that know a bit about this.
My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.
tell us how this all works out for ya....we have lotsa time.... ;)
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7 exhaust shims, 4 intake shims.....all are tight at 20k, 4 out slightly at 40k on my 09
43000 in 2 years on my 09. i saw the work done, and know it wasn't fun. could have been tons easier to rev it and think, "yep all good"
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12 out slightly (dialed in) at 20k, 4 out slightly at 40k on my 09
43000 in 2 years on my 09. i saw the work done, and know it wasn't fun. could have been tons easier to rev it and think, "yep all good"
but you didn't..... :thumbs: :thumbs: :goodpost:
and I bet you sleep perfectly for that also.... ;)
(when you say "slightly out", are you meaning slightly off the mid line, or slightly below the lower limit?...just asking.)
I will add that even though there is a lower limit, it is calculated on the fact the service is done on a cold engine, and things will change once @ operating temps. Even if the valve clearance is "below" on a cold engine, the spec was set to say "it's still safe, but service IS needed....and to heed that advice.... not stick to a blind mentality as was suggested here by someone that you are gonna get 100k out of the bike......ain't gonna happen..... ::) I still have my 78' kaw, w/ shim over bucket.....in my sig line. ;)
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A valve will seat untill zero clearance is exceeded. The minimum specified clearance assures there is ample heat transfer from the valve to the cylinder head, thus keeping the valve cooler. The valve stays closed a longer duration with the proper minimum clearance.
That said, I'll still probably wait till 30 or 40k or when the cam cover gasket leaks, whichever comes first.
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this is all i have, sorry it looks like a crappy picture and done on an etch a sketch. lol
(feel good about the valves, kicking myself about the forks. lol shhh)
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A valve will seat untill zero clearance is exceeded. The minimum specified clearance assures there is ample heat transfer from the valve to the cylinder head, thus keeping the valve cooler. The valve stays closed a longer duration with the proper minimum clearance.
That said, I'll still probably wait till 30 or 40k or when the cam cover gasket leaks, whichever comes first.
THE reason the manufacturer says to have the inspection done, is to INSURE they didn't make a mistake, and to set a precidence for the efficacy of the original assembly.
that said, here's my shim chart...
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/76/76/8/5/85/2896805850015463693biYSzi_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2896805850015463693biYSzi)
this is all i have, sorry it looks like a crappy picture and done on an etch a sketch. lol
(feel good about the valves, kicking myself about the forks. lol shhh)
interesting..... you seemed to have 6 @ the limits.... even more interesting is that your mechanic is as particular as myself, and used inch feelers, and recorded those readings in lieu of using metric feelers...
very wise.... I have .0002" feeler stock, and doing this service correctly, does let you use that, or the .0005" feeler also, to get precision....sweet...
;)
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I am not going to attempt it, nor do I honestly trust a dealer to do it.....reckon I am hosed then.
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I am not going to attempt it, nor do I honestly trust a dealer to do it.....reckon I am hosed then.
or you could just ride up to Mentor, and pick up some good beer...... and bring your tent.
;)
and your checkbook...... 8)
I know you trust me......
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/57/457/8/92/75/2144892750015463693rBCcdx_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2144892750015463693rBCcdx)
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/89/173/3/80/69/2585380690015463693HLtHMY_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2585380690015463693HLtHMY)
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/62/762/2/19/71/2929219710015463693bjTxQi_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2929219710015463693bjTxQi)
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/90/174/7/12/29/2858712290015463693mpzLAO_th.jpg) (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2858712290015463693mpzLAO)
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or you could just ride up to Mentor, and pick up some good beer...... and bring your tent.
;)
and your checkbook...... 8)
That could happen. :chugbeer:
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That could happen. :chugbeer:
;)
word thru the grapevine is MOB is gonna host a couple Ohio specific adventures this year.....more to come later ;)
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;)
word thru the grapevine is MOB is gonna host a couple Ohio specific adventures this year.....more to come later ;)
That sounds AWESOME!!!!! If you host it, they will come. :thumbs:
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11668.msg142845#msg142845 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=11668.msg142845#msg142845)
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Well, I have just finished my valve adjustment. I have an 2009 C 14 , bought it new. And about 16000 miles on it. I do read this forum everyday, sometimes few times actually. I was going to wait to check my valves for at least untill 25 to 30 thousand miles. But, at the end of the riding season, I have noticed valve cover gasket leak. So, I have decided to go in with the confedence I have collected from you guys and also from Fred H. Video series. All I wanted to say is a BIG Thank you to all of you. I have not dealt with shim under bucket valve set up before but when I have started to work on it I have felt like I have done this many times. And , pretty much all of my in. and ex. specs were on eather lowest or below. I think I may have bonded to my bike even more now, lol.
Ahmet.
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Does anyone know a link to the valve specs? How does the specs work, give high and low tolerance, maybe a sweet spot?
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Does anyone know a link to the valve specs? How does the specs work, give high and low tolerance, maybe a sweet spot?
Have you looked through the Wiki threads on the subject yet : http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10264.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10264.0)
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Thank You!
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Double overhead camshaft, valve clearance ... I'll do it no earlier than 50,000 miles.
MGvalerio. 8)
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If the valves need to be adjusted, just trade it.
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If the valves need to be adjusted, just trade it.
I will be using this philosophy to my wife.
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Works for me.
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I had my 2008 checked at 20,000 when I had it. What a waste of money. I haven't checked my 2010 yet at 38,000 sweet miles. I might have my 2006 Dodge Charger valves checked too. NOT!!!
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I did my own first valve adjustment, 2008 model, at just under 25k miles. Every shim needed to be changed. Some were one step off, some two, and one was even 4 steps off. Went from a 20 shim to a 10.
I found the most important part of this job is having the right tools. Metric feeler gauges in .01 mm increments is a good start. Exhaust 0.19 ∼ 0.24 mm, to Inlet 0.12 ∼ 0.17 mm. So you need feeler gauges from 0.11 to 0.25.
Meaning, 0.11; 0.12; 0.13; 0.14; 0.15; 0.16; 0.17; 0.18; 0.19; 0.20; 0.21; 0.22; 0.23; 0.24; 0.25. Without those feelers, you are holding two or three feelers together, and jerry rigging. I don't pay $85 an hour for a jerry rigger mech.
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MOB will hopefully be doing mine for me at probably around 40k, so I have a few years to prepare for it. :thumbs:
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In all the posts regarding valve clearances as a maintenance item, I don't recall any valves ever being found to actually be out of spec. One contributor talks about finding a burnt valve and this is what Im talking about when I say abuse. A burnt valve would display obvious symptoms and that is not what we are discussing here. Another contributor Bud Callaghan talks about the clearances being on the low (tight) side. What are you talking about? If the clearance is within spec it's fine. Moving the clearances to the middle of the range will do absolutely nothing except make you sleep better at night. As a matter of fact increasing the clearance decreases the valve lift, not something I would want to do. You, my friend, give the worst possible kind of advice and that is unsubstantiated and TOTAL OVERKILL. The point is, that if you are worried about engine problems in a C14 you are just being paranoid. This engine is bulletproof, unless you totally abuse the sh... out of it. And even that is hard to do with the rev limiter and quality of construction. Of all the motorcycles I have owned this is by far the most dependable. And believe me I am a maintenance freak. However, too many shade tree mechanics have listened to advice form owners like Callaghan, who may actually be able to accomplish this task competently, and attempted to service the valve train themselves by replacing shims with disastrous results. I have seen charts and programs and videos and heard all the comments. You are seriously risking total and catastrophic engine failure if you, or your so called qualified Kawasaki mechanic, makes one small mistake. Why would you rather take that risk over the infinitesimally small risk, and you would decide based on ridiculous and unqualified posts in this and other Concours forums, that the valves were found to be out of spec and require changing? Which by the way requires removing the cams, not something you really want to ever have to do. During the manufacturing process the valve clearances are all checked and double checked by a qualified engine builder. The engine only passes if the valves are found to be IN SPEC. It would be impossible for an engine to slip through this important quality control check and be further assembled. As far as the warranty is concerned. Maintenance done by owner. Period end of story. However, it is your bike. You can listen to the kooks who have nothing better to do then take their engines apart or do the research and see just how many engines are actually found to have valves truly out of spec.
I'll address the red colored portion of this gentleman's most recent post.
In my initial post I clearly stated that five of my valves were definitely too tight while many others were so close to being too tight for me to conscientiously leave as is since the bike was sitting there with the cams out.
Changing the clearance to the middle of the specified acceptable range will do something. As the miles accumulate and all of the valve clearances slowly tighten as they wear from contacting the valve seats, providing more clearance will provide a margin for the clearances to remaining within specifications. DOHC engines that use either shim over or under buckets don't wear the other end of the valve while rockers that ride on the end of the valve do.
This was written by a guy who calls himself a maintenance freak. One who shuns a necessary task because it apparently overwhelms his limited abilities. He seems to be equating this simple maintenance chore of adjusting valves to brain surgery and can't imagine anyone figuring out how to do it.
"Ridiculous and unqualified posts" is a most apt description of his own offerings.
There is really nothing difficult about removing the cams, nor is it difficult to put them back the way you found them.
This second post by elektradw on this topic certainly verifies what I said in the final paragraph of my first post and also brings to mind a very old cliché that remains true, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and let others think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".
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My mother-in-law says that as well....
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My mother-in-law says that as well....
So how is that working out for ya? ;D
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So how is that working out for ya? ;D
Well, I'm still her son-in-law after 35+ years so I guess ok, Poke. ;)
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Just trade them let someone else deal with it.
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Well, I'm still her son-in-law after 35+ years so I guess ok, Poke. ;)
I had zero doubts.
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;D
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Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.
To reinforce your theory, my Mazda 626 has mechanical valve lifters with shim under bucket adjusters. I first checked the valve clearances at 290,000 miles (not 29,000). I found only two valves that were just above the upper limit, which means that none of the valves were too tight. I did not adjust any of them and the car ran fine up to 339,000 miles when I decided to get rid of it. Mazda does not even recommend adjusting the valves unless you hear valve noise.
I would recommend CHECKING the valve clearance on the Concours at say 20k miles, but I would not lose my sleep if all the clearances were not exactly in the middle of the specified range. If they are within the specified clearance range, leave them alone.
It has been my experience that valves with screw type adjusters require much more frequent adjustment than shim under bucket types. Screw types are easy to adjust, but they do go out of spec.
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my 08 has 22,000 on it and the valve cover was leaking so had it in shop and think 3 or 4 valves had to be adjusted. thanks to the ext. warranty!
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Well, I have just finished my valve adjustment. I have an 2009 C 14 , bought it new. And about 16000 miles on it. I do read this forum everyday, sometimes few times actually. I was going to wait to check my valves for at least untill 25 to 30 thousand miles. But, at the end of the riding season, I have noticed valve cover gasket leak. So, I have decided to go in with the confedence I have collected from you guys and also from Fred H. Video series. All I wanted to say is a BIG Thank you to all of you. I have not dealt with shim under bucket valve set up before but when I have started to work on it I have felt like I have done this many times. And , pretty much all of my in. and ex. specs were on eather lowest or below. I think I may have bonded to my bike even more now, lol.
Ahmet.
Ahmet were you out of warranty? Extended warranty? I would think that the labor associated with replacing the leaking gasket
( removing the plastic etc.) would have saved you a lot of labor costs ( under warranty) to have the dealer do the valve check unless of course you like motorcycle intimacy.
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I was not out of warranty yet. Due is next March. I just like to do thinks by myself. Have an experiance or learn new things. I was actually happy to see the valve cover leaking this summer, so I would get in there. Lol.
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Personally my experience with shimmed bucket valves would be leave them the f... alone. It is a gimmick for the dealerships to make money. If the valves were in spec when assembled, and unless you have a catastrophic occurrence, like run low on oil or over stress the engine, the likelihood of the valve shims needing switching or replacing are about zero. Some owners will exchange shims to the high side, some to the low side thinking they are doing something constructive. The only thing you are doing is either spending money for no reason at the dealership, or taking on a huge risk if you think you can do it yourself. One mistake, one miscalculation, read a clearance number wrong, engine too hot or too cold, go out of sequence.... the dangers are numerous. I would not even let a Kawasaki mechanic tackle this job. I have 37,000 miles on my '011 and would not even consider going near the valves. I keep hearing of owners finding valves "out of spec". What are you talking about? If the valve clearance is within the described clearances they are fine. Valve seat wear or valve stem stretch is rare unless you totally abuse your motorcycle every ride. I wouldn't even consider changing the spark plugs and they say to do that every 7500 miles. If you get good mileage, easy startups, no miss, no noise why would you even think of doing this kind of maintenance unless you are flush with cash, anal compulsive, or paranoid. Whoever wrote the owners manual is nuts or was intending to build a profit stream for the dealership or to protect themselves on any possible motor warranty claim. My Kawi will go well over 100k before I get into the motor. Change oil and filter, tires, brake pads and ride it. JMHO.
you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !
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you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !
He is just one example, but in my opinion many owners do worry too much over nothing.
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He is just one example, but in my opinion many owners do worry too much over nothing.
I agree he is just one example.
I also agree some owners wory too much about seemingly minute things.
But I do not agree with anyone who feels that valve adjustment should be overlooked or thought of as "unnecessary" as so many suggest. And to compare a motorcycle shim under bucket engines wear charactersitics to a cars, absurd. So the bike revs to what 7500+ routinely and the car revs to 2500 routinely. The bike uses the same engine oil for the clutch, engine and transmission, the car uses it engine oil just for the engine. A motorcycle engine is pretty highly tuned for performance while a car is tuned for reliability, do we really need to continue on?
I personally have adjusted valves on all the motorcycles I have owned since 1973, perhaps 50 bikes and many of them several times, the 08 concours I have 3 times now, never once have I felt it was a waste of time or unnecessary, actually every time I have been into any of them I have "had to" adjust valves. Typically I have found the most adjusting needed to be done the earlier on as the bike surpassed 50,000-60,000-100,000 miles the adjustments needed became smaller and smaller and less of them, but they were still needed.
I have a 4 stroke Yamaha dirt bike with shim under bucket adjusters, I adjust those after every full day of riding it, so approx every 8-10 hours on the hour meter, never once have they been "in spec", actually often is the case the exhuast valves get real close to "0" clearance in those 8 hours and if allowed to go far beyond 10 hours they are hung open, negative clearance.
So shame on you for those with their heads buried in the sand and think they'll run forever with no maitenance or little maintenance.
Again simply reaffirms my belief in not buying used ! And don't even get me started on all the crap that gets posted all over the internet is just that, 99% crap and misinformation, including several posts in this thread.
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you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !
I agree he is just one example.
I also agree some owners wory too much about seemingly minute things.
And don't even get me started on all the crap that gets posted all over the internet is just that, 99% crap and misinformation, including several posts in this thread.
Interesting first posts. Do consider yourself the 1% or is this some of the 99% of which you speak.
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Interesting first posts. Do consider yourself the 1% or is this some of the 99% of which you speak.
I am in the 1% for sure.
Oh wait that was a rhetorical question wasn't it?
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you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !
OOOOuuccchhh! :o
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you sir are the reason why I will never buy a used motorcycle !
I tend to agree with your assessment of the inherent danger when purchasing any used vehicle. However, I would surely buy one from you or ZG, another meticulous member of this forum. I see that you're a newly registered member. Your first post indicates that you take good care of your possessions and therefore have garnered considerable knowledge and skills along the way. That you can think and have the ability to convey your thoughts to paper in an articulate manner. You're most welcome here as you have given every indication that your contributions will be of benefit to those who have yet to accumulate the knowledge and abilities they seek.
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Well spoken, Bud.
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There are a few things motorcycle I am pretty animate about ;
riding skills
maintenance
I have been told over the years the less of one you have the more of the other is needed. But I feel you need 100% of both to really be at a point to become a safe, proficient and skilled rider.
Oh and thanks, but I rarely ever sell any of my bikes.
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Here is a post from the COG. If anyone here thinks they need to dive into their engine and tackle the valve train beware! Just because a contributor has a ton of postings does NOT make him qualified to promote owners going into their engines in order to check or adjust valves. I'm sure that this poor soul has regretted taking their advise. Spending the money to have it done at a dealership is foolish but less risky then doing it yourself. I have owned and worked on motorcycles for over 40 years and still say the best advise is "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Your bike to do what you want with it and good luck to all. BTW Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.
Hard Starting 2011
« on: December 06, 2012, 08:45:27 PM »
Quote
I have been having problems starting my 2011 C14. The trouble started about the time I changed the plugs and checked the valve clearances at 15K miles back in August. The valves checked out within tolerance so none of them were adjusted. In the summer it usually started on the second or third try after giving it a little bit of gas. Now that the temps are lower here in Iowa the problem has gotten much worse. In the past 2 weeks it has failed to start on two occasions. Both times I tried until the battery was dead. After charging the battery overnight each time it started the next morning on the fourth or fifth try. I am to the point now where I am afraid to stop anywhere for fear of it not starting back up. I thought the problem may have been the new plugs so I put the original plugs back in but that changed nothing. This past weekend I replaced all four stick coils hoping that may have been the problem but it is still the same. The problem is only with starting, the bike runs fine once it is started. Power and gas mileage are the same as before. I had the dealer look at it in October when I had the rear brake recall done but it started right up for them so they did not investigate any further. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I attached a sound clip from the morning of 12/5 in my garage at about 60 degrees. You can barely here the sputtering and back fire.
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Here is a post from the COG. If anyone here thinks they need to follow Callaghan's or Man of Blues advise beware! Just because they have a ton of postings does NOT make them qualified to promote owners going into their engines in order to check or adjust valves. I'm sure that this poor soul has regretted taking their advise. Spending the money to have it done at a dealership is foolish but less risky then doing it yourself. I have owned and worked on motorcycles for over 40 years and still say the best advise is "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Your bike to do what you want with it and good luck to all. BTW Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.
How do you know if they are out of tolerance if you don't check. Do you let the brakes become metal on metal before you change them? No, you check them for wear periodically. The valve clearance check it a routine maintenance item that does need to be done. Some people should let their dealership do the work, but there are plenty of people with the skill and knowledge to do it themselves without having any issues with.
You also have a happy holiday season.
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Here is a post from the COG. If anyone here thinks they need to follow Callaghan's or Man of Blues advise beware! Just because they have a ton of postings does NOT make them qualified to promote owners going into their engines in order to check or adjust valves. I'm sure that this poor soul has regretted taking their advise. Spending the money to have it done at a dealership is foolish but less risky then doing it yourself. I have owned and worked on motorcycles for over 40 years and still say the best advise is "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Your bike to do what you want with it and good luck to all. BTW Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.
Hard Starting 2011
« on: December 06, 2012, 08:45:27 PM »
Quote
I have been having problems starting my 2011 C14. The trouble started about the time I changed the plugs and checked the valve clearances at 15K miles back in August. The valves checked out within tolerance so none of them were adjusted. In the summer it usually started on the second or third try after giving it a little bit of gas. Now that the temps are lower here in Iowa the problem has gotten much worse. In the past 2 weeks it has failed to start on two occasions. Both times I tried until the battery was dead. After charging the battery overnight each time it started the next morning on the fourth or fifth try. I am to the point now where I am afraid to stop anywhere for fear of it not starting back up. I thought the problem may have been the new plugs so I put the original plugs back in but that changed nothing. This past weekend I replaced all four stick coils hoping that may have been the problem but it is still the same. The problem is only with starting, the bike runs fine once it is started. Power and gas mileage are the same as before. I had the dealer look at it in October when I had the rear brake recall done but it started right up for them so they did not investigate any further. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I attached a sound clip from the morning of 12/5 in my garage at about 60 degrees. You can barely here the sputtering and back fire.
So this posting proves what? The owner likley did something wrong, but it sure wasn't adjusting the valves since he states he didn't adjust any.
Your answer sure appears to be "leave it all alone, it is all fine, until it isn't", which tells me you have a run it into the ground and dispose of it type of attitude.
That message is simply foolishness.
I do agree some people are far better off to leave their equipments maintenance and care to the professionals, but the equipment still requires maintenance. The C14 certainly isn't the easiest bike out there to adjust valves on, and there is more to doing maintenance than simply adjusting the valves too. So simply "checking" the valves is only scratching the surface.
But sticking to valve adjustment suggestions, since that is what this thread is about, those first few valve adjustments are by far the most critical, and they certainly are necessary.
I understand with so many spouting off how "they did not need any adjustment", "all were within spec" and other such rhetoric being rejurgitated all over forums around the world it is easy to get sucked into that mentality. "everything is fine, no need to do anything". The simply fact is everything is not fine and there is plenty of need to do these required maintenances. The fact that some say they have not done them and their bike "runs fine", well I have no doubt it runs, right until it will not, "runs fine" well that is arbitrary and subjective to ones opinion and experience.
If you bought brand new and the performance and smoothness degraded say 10% over 15,000 miles would you be so sensitive to pick up on this?
The simple answer is that 99.9% of riders are not, but probably 90+% sure can tell when they get it back, all properly adjusted and running smoothly again and that 10% "instant" improvement is enough to tell a substantial difference. Atleast that has been my experience with hundreds of valve adjustment/tune ups.
This comparison is direct and may be somewhat arbitrary in itself since everyone wears them out differently and uses them differently, but here goes anyways;
The difference is somewhat similar to as your tires wear, even though 4000 mile tires are not nearly as good as new (100 mile tires, fully scuffed) tires, most don't notice much lack of performance there, right up until they are near bald. Which is akin to when the valves are hung open. You then spoon on some new skins and walla, instantly better feeling and handling bike.
Anyways, read the service manual maintenance chart and use it as a guide, I will give you that some bikes simply require more while others require less based much on how and where the bike is ridden. The bike lollygagged around on the interstate at 4500 rpms for most of its life simply won't wear parts as fast as the bike that sees bursts to 10,000rpm+ and some far more spirited riding in the mountains or canyons
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Yes you are correct. There ARE those with the skills, patience, tools, and time to do this job correctly and as frequently as they desire. Some will just spend the money and take it to a dealership. Whatever works for you, as I am not advocating anyone to follow my reasoning if they are uncomfortable. However, I have read posts where owners will attempt this procedure because of advise taken and get in way over their heads. The chance for a mistake is way to great for anyone but a pro to attempt changing shims. Most Concours owners are NOT qualified to do this kind of maintenance, especially if it is not necessary. Somewhere during the procedure it is so easy to forget or neglect something. Talk of valves being out of spec appears to be arbitrary and done with no apparent symptoms. Even if a valve is found to be a couple of thousandths off the center line there is NO need to change shims. Again every owner has to make a decision on this and I add my two cents in for the sake of dialogue, no one has to take my advise literally. There are risks to everything in life. IMHO
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Yes you are correct. There ARE those with the skills, patience, tools, and time to do this job correctly and as frequently as they desire. Some will just spend the money and take it to a dealership. Whatever works for you, as I am not advocating anyone to follow my reasoning if they are uncomfortable. However, I have read posts where owners will attempt this procedure because of advise taken and get in way over their heads. The chance for a mistake is way to great for anyone but a pro to attempt changing shims. Most Concours owners are NOT qualified to do this kind of maintenance, especially if it is not necessary. IMHO
Now this post I agree with, mostly.
The underlying tone of your previous posts has been however, "No need to do anything, it'll be fine". Perhaps not even so underlying.
To me that wreaks of poor advice and a completely wrong message to send, intentionally or not.
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I tend to agree with your assessment of the inherent danger when purchasing any used vehicle. However, I would surely buy one from you or ZG, another meticulous member of this forum.
:) :chugbeer:
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Now this post I agree with, mostly.
The underlying tone of your previous posts has been however, "No need to do anything, it'll be fine". Perhaps not even so underlying.
To me that wreaks of poor advice and a completely wrong message to send, intentionally or not.
Save your energy Pepsi, you're wasting it as neither you or anyone else can accomplish everything. There's a popular phrase repeated frequently, here it is again, "You can't fix stupid".
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If I found one or more at the low clearance limit, I'd button it back up. If I had to pull the cams, they would all go back to the fat and happy side of 'good', even if I had to buy every shim new.
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Their have been lengthy discussions on thus topic on this forum.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg84047#msg84047 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg84047#msg84047)
Since the internet has now been around a long time I would imagine most sophisticated folks will realize that most of the information that is posted contains a fair amount of opinion based on their anecdotal experience. I doubt that anyone of our sophisticated members would foolishly take someone's opinion about valve checks etc. as gospel without doing a fair amount of research and thinking for themselves. I like to see alternative opinions about stuff, it causes me to research things more intensely. I read elecktradw as his opinion about his stuff, albeit somewhat passionate. But as an informed, sophisticated Concours forum member and owner, not the gospel truth.
I too believe in maintenance. You function in life based on you comfort threshold and knowledge. If you consistently bite off more than you can chew...your gonna puke! Lets take a poll.
I think we need to have a poll who will and will not check their valves. I believe a poll existed on the forum precrash, I could not find a current poll.
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Their have been lengthy discussions on thus topic on this forum.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg84047#msg84047 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7084.msg84047#msg84047)
Since the internet has now been around a long time I would imagine most sophisticated folks will realize that most of the information that is posted contains a fair amount of opinion based on their anecdotal experience. I doubt that anyone of our sophisticated members would foolishly take someone's opinion about valve checks etc. as gospel without doing a fair amount of research and thinking for themselves. I like to see alternative opinions about stuff, it causes me to research things more intensely. I read elecktradw as his opinion about his stuff, albeit somewhat passionate. But as an informed, sophisticated Concours forum member and owner, not the gospel truth.
I too believe in maintenance. You function in life based on you comfort threshold and knowledge. If you consistently bite off more than you can chew...your gonna puke! Lets take a poll.
I think we need to have a poll who will and will not check their valves. I believe a poll existed on the forum precrash, I could not find a current poll.
If we actually took a poll of the Concours owners or owners of all motorcycles for that matter, I would offer a conservative estimate that better than 95% would either do the necessary maintenance or pay to have it done. As for the C-14 valve maintenance I must assume that fewer of the owners would do it themselves because of the complexity of the task, but the 95+% estimate of someone doing it would hold sway. There are people who don't keep their motorcycles for more than a couple of years and I assume that they may opt to leave things as they are knowing that they will be selling any and all potential problems to the new owner.
On occasion we encounter the goof who insists that the factory's maintenance recommendations are simply propaganda to line the coffers of the various dealers with gold. There are also those among the population who refuse to believe that Mr. Hitler's influence led to the slaughter of a few million Jewish people. We also have some erstwhile members of our society who will admit that the Earth is round, perhaps as a pancake is round, but it surely can't be a sphere, hence the Flat Earth Society actually exists and has members.
As for me, I have done all of my own maintenance on every vehicle I have ever owned with but two exceptions. I have never owned an alignment rack so wheel alignment is a job I hire others to do. Except for a twenty year period when a friend of mine had an alignment rack that I was able to use. The other task was to program my Kawasaki's new fob when I lost one of mine. There is a damn good reason I do it all myself. I simply don't trust anyone else to apply the effort necessary to do any given task as well as it can be done. After all, it is my ass on the line when I either ride or drive any of my vehicles and I prefer to employ my own standards to best insure its safety. A time clock, impatient boss, heavy workload or the day of the week for that matter have no influence on my endeavors. Just as you will never find spelling or grammatical errors in any of the posts I have written, I take the time and effort to apply my own high standards to everything I do. Sadly, most folks do not.
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Wow Bud you are just the expert in all things Concours. Must be the 115 posts that makes you the guru and know it all. The simple fact is I can out wrench you any day of the week and I still would be RELUCTANT to dive into the valve train without any more reason than it says so in the manual. It also says to change spark plugs every 7,500 miles. Geeze the last time I checked the OEM NGK plugs are rated for 100,000 miles. I, for one, don't believe everything I read. However, like you, I would not trust this work to any dealership mechanic. Some owners have no choice and will risk the possible consequences of a less than qualified tech doing the work. As a retired LVMPD officer I have access to a motorcycle tech that works for the department and moonlights on the side. He races Kawasakis and builds race engines. This is someone I would trust to do it right, and he is of the same opinion as me: if it aint broke dont fix it. I would surly trust his knowledge over yours on this matter. Maintenance like filters, oil, tires, brakes, coolant, hoses, batteries, ect. are one thing but you will never convince me of a valve adjust until I witness some symptoms that would warrant further investigation. Sorry if this offends you, however, this is not a courtroom and the last time I checked this forum was open to opinions and discussion regardless of the topic and position. I don't oppose your viewpoint, as it suits you well, and others that might subscribe to your methods. Some of us just have a different perspective, however, this constant bashing is a real turn off. State your position and move on. Your opinion only carries so much weight before the bubble bursts. You are the only one that considers yourself an expert.
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:popcorn:
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I plan on getting the maintenance video for the C14. I am not looking forward to doing a valve adjustment mainly because I am not getting any younger. I as well as many others have a disproportionate learning curve, making the simple things harder to do the first time. I grew to love the valve adjustments on my air head BMW (ZEN and the art of motorcycle maintenance) and I found some tricks to get the valve train to sound like a sewing machine, you could hear the valve train on those bikes.
I think this is how I remember the setting procedure, taken from a race tech: instead of setting the valves at top dead center do this-- when the exhaust valve begins to open set the intake, when the intake begins to close set the exhaust. I believe this is correct and it was recommended to set at the upper limit. The race tech indicated cam manufacturers build a 'clearance ramp' in the cam before the lobe opening and very often that ramp does not always match from valve to valve leading to uneven settings. I cannot verify that this is still a viable approach but produced great results in the past on older bikes.
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:popcorn:
Sigh.
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Wow.. I haven't been around the forum lately, and I see this thread called "Valve Adjustment', and its 6 pages long! My first impression was, Man it looks like someone must be having a problem doing their adjustment. I hope they didn't get their cam indexing wrong and hit a valve or maybe bust a cam sensor or something...
Then I read thru this mess and see that not one wrench has been spun on the OP's bike.. All just back and forth about whether it needs to be done or not. Just internet dick swinging and why their ideals on valve adjustment are the correct ones and what makes the world right for them.
Really?
6 pages
Sigh... I miss the old forum
JJ
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As do I....
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These parts have to come off:
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/moto/i-Lxth8j6/0/XL/IMG_0003-L.jpg)
The left side looks mean:
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/moto/i-gqhQP65/0/L/IMG_0008-L.jpg)
The right side is not mo' betta':
(http://dolomoto.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/moto/i-mXKXztN/0/L/IMG_0009-L.jpg)
With a bit of patience, organization maybe Fred's videos... a valve inspection ain't so bad.
YMMV.