not really.

not really.

care to elaborate? I don't mean to shock you, but I've heard rumors of a discussion regarding this topic.

 

+1

Question: is there specific code to open the flies, or is that something the ECU does automatically based on something else in the tuning?

My question stems around, why would I pay nearly $400 for a single flash, when I could buy a PowerCommander or Bazzaz unit for about the same and do whatever I want? Or I guess manually get rid of said flies and do the programming myself... both the PowerCommander and Bazzaz units offer downloadable maps for specific set-ups. They are just about infinitely configurable, and instantly changeable back to stock without days of down-time.

I am *NOT* discounting the work done by Guhl, but as a consumer, I have to wonder about the value proposition. Thoughts?

There are two maps in the ECU for these flies. One for the traction control system and one for normal operation. Guhi knows where the one for normal operation is and this is the one that they can modify. This is IMHO the better way to go if you have a 2010+ unit with traction control due it using these flies as one of the three (fuel/spark/flies) to control traction.

The primary reason is less moving parts, less to go wrong while on the road, accessible switch between ECO/Power mode and other computing functions like MPG and Miles to Empty, and Traction Control.

As normal, there is always 3-5 answers/solutions to a given requirement. The Flash is just a very neat and tidy solution to the Flyoctomy.

+1, I will be doing this at some point as well. 

Question: is there specific code to open the flies, or is that something the ECU does automatically based on something else in the tuning?

I don't think we can answer those questions, since it is something that requires disassembly of the programming.  However, I am going to guess that the secondary butterflies are variable and on a map, just like everything else.

My question stems around, why would I pay nearly $400 for a single flash, when I could buy a PowerCommander or Bazzaz unit for about the same and do whatever I want?

Because with a PC:

1) It will not open the secondary butterflies, so those would still have to be removed, physically.
2) Removing the secondary butterflies cripples part of the the traction control system (but only part of it... it still still operate, just not as smoothly)
3) Restoring the bike to factory requires reinstallation of those secondary butterflies.
4) It is less reliable- There are lots of connectors and other things to install, each one having connections that can fail, be cut, go open.  Plus there are more circuits to fail.  And it requires power.
5) Much more labor to install.
6) There is something visible to cue possible warranty issues (the PC and the missing flies) (even that that would be bogus for anyone to complain about, it is still a very real factor).

On the flip side, the PC:

1) Gives an easy way to go back to "stock" programming (no additional reflash expense).
2) Allows for user-programmable maps and quick change of maps.

If you are a "tuner" or "racer" then you will probably want the full control and power of a PC.  If you are just a regular street rider, you might prefer the simplicity, reliability, stock-ness, and refinement of the ECU reflash.

I have thought the same question. Here are my thoughts:
1) Removing the flies will negatively affect '10 and newer tc.
2) Changing the tune instead of an add on box means one less thing to worry about failing or bad wiring
3) Add on box merely plays with the fuel, a flash can also change top speed and timing.
4) Don't see how the eco mode can be preserved on '10 and newer bikes with a pcv. If I am wrong, tell me why.

Original thread (and might be only other thread):   http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585

- imho , some of the guys who have been running this flashed ECU for some time now should perhaps comment on how their experience(s) have been.

- just yesterday had the experience of riding in the wet. Accelerating on a straight bit of road , came upon a large painted arrow on the road , the rear spun up very quickly and equally quickly the traction kept everything under control , felt the rear loosen up and step to one side.

- if not for the TC , perhaps the bike would have highsided me into the embankment.

- how does the TC perform after the flashing ? Or had no one bothered or have the time/experience to test it ?

.

Plenty of people have posted about their experience including myself. The flash delivers on the promise of fly's open sooner/longer inline with a tuned map and delivers 10-15% more torque down low.

TC works perfectly.

ECO mode is retained

I've ridden my bike several times on the track now and the flash makes a big difference, I don't need to gear down to 2nd in some corner if I don't want to.

Have had the FLASH done for over 8,000 miles now.  When I leave my driveway I clime a steep hill that has pine trees hanging over the road, I can hold the bike wide open(eco turned off) in 1st. gear and it only rolls the pine straw over in several short spots every 3 feet.  This road at times is covered 2 inches deep with pine straw and rained on them. I do this just for test and fun, unbelievable, no sideways sliding.  And this is up a steep hill.  It makes the motor sound funny.  HeHe!

So let's just say I am considering doing this but don't want to change the pipe at all, I just want to get full power in the lower gears.  Does this work?

So let's just say I am considering doing this but don't want to change the pipe at all, I just want to get full power in the lower gears.  Does this work?

Very few people ever change the exhaust pipe.  I think you mean "muffler".  The former might have significant impact (depending on which parts), the latter [alone] not.

But the flash, as mentioned in this thread, is specifically designed for a stock bike, which means no modifications to the bike at all.  Although I do imagine they might also have a flash for certain mods, but that is not mentioned... you would have to contact them to get such questions answered.

Here is a paste about tune with aftermarket can vs stock:

"We have different tunes for the stock exhaust, vs. the aftermarket exhaust. It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust. Also, if you are sure you are going to get the exhaust, we could program for it, and just run it like that until you get it. It'll just be a little rich in the mean time, but not horrible.
Let me know if you need any additional help.
Thanks,
Don Guhl
 
> I have a '11 C14. Do you use the same flash for a stock c14 as you
> would for a C14 with just a slip on?
> I am on the fence about getting a slip on and want to know if I got a
> reflash with my totally stock exhaust, would I need to send the pcm
> off again if, down the road, I got something like a V&H slip on.

Here is a paste about tune with aftermarket can vs stock:

"We have different tunes for the stock exhaust, vs. the aftermarket exhaust. It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust. Also, if you are sure you are going to get the exhaust, we could program for it, and just run it like that until you get it. It'll just be a little rich in the mean time, but not horrible.
Let me know if you need any additional help.
Thanks,
Don Guhl
 
> I have a '11 C14. Do you use the same flash for a stock c14 as you
> would for a C14 with just a slip on?
> I am on the fence about getting a slip on and want to know if I got a
> reflash with my totally stock exhaust, would I need to send the pcm
> off again if, down the road, I got something like a V&H slip on.

Exactly the question I had. Thanks! But the answer: "It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust" leads to another question. Does this mean he will reprogram for free or a reduced fee? Because I'm not sure if or when I will get an aftermarket exhaust but would like to reflash now especially if there is a group buy.

Exactly the question I had. Thanks! But the answer: "It's not a big deal to reprogram your ecu when you upgrade the exhaust" leads to another question. Does this mean he will reprogram for free or a reduced fee? Because I'm not sure if or when I will get an aftermarket exhaust but would like to reflash now especially if there is a group buy.

I *think* reflashes are free, but you have to pay for the return shipping of your  ecm.

I *think* reflashes are free, but you have to pay for the return shipping of your  ecm.

  I can live with that deal!