Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Jeremy Mitchell on June 02, 2011, 08:00:06 PM
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I put my new 190/55 PR2 on today and I have to give it to SteveWFL.......... this is a great tire. Turn in is noticebly quicker than the Shinko Raven and the 190/50 PR2. I only got to ride about 30 miles and am completely impressed, I have found my tire to stick with as long as I get decent mileage out of it. I ended up getting about 6300 miles (completely shagged) out of the Raven which was a little more than the PR2 that it replaced. Thanks for hyping the 55 Steve!
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I just ordered some Pirelli Angels today, however I almost pulled on the PR2's. I still am very impressed with the Dunlop Roadsmarts, I have almost 8k on them with probably another 1k "very safely" left. So why did I opt for the Angels....cause Cap'n Bob endorses them!!!! :thumbs:
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Thanks for the report Jeremy. I'll probably switch to 55's in a month or so.
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I just ordered some Pirelli Angels today, however I almost pulled on the PR2's. I still am very impressed with the Dunlop Roadsmarts, I have almost 8k on them with probably another 1k "very safely" left. So why did I opt for the Angels....cause Cap'n Bob endorses them!!!! :thumbs:
Cap'n Bob also endorses Yamaha since KiPass hated him, so are you gonna trade for an FJR? ;D
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Cap'n Bob also endorses Yamaha since KiPass hated him, so are you gonna trade for an FJR? ;D
Ummmmmmm...........NO.
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180/55 would be better choice IMO .
Weighs less and costs less.
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I have the 180/55 on my brcause the dealer didn't have the 190 when I needed a rear tire, it seems to work great so far
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I just ordered some Pirelli Angels today, however I almost pulled on the PR2's. I still am very impressed with the Dunlop Roadsmarts, I have almost 8k on them with probably another 1k "very safely" left. So why did I opt for the Angels....cause Cap'n Bob endorses them!!!! :thumbs:
I got the Angels before Winter since I heard they worked better in the cold than other tires. I rode them all Winter in Pennsylvania and loved them. I'm loving them even more now that it's warm.
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I just ordered some Pirelli Angels today, however I almost pulled on the PR2's. I still am very impressed with the Dunlop Roadsmarts, I have almost 8k on them with probably another 1k "very safely" left. So why did I opt for the Angels....cause Cap'n Bob endorses them!!!! :thumbs:
Brian! I was told by my supplier that Angels in 190/55 are available now and he will have them in the next couple of weeks.
Go with 55's if you can, maybe change your order if you have that option.
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so for us guys with ABS/TRAC would this be a wise choice to switch tire sizes?
i know on a car it will mess with the ABS/TRAC ECUs, and i would assume that it would do the same on a bike......right?
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Cap'n Bob also endorses Yamaha since KiPass hated him, so are you gonna trade for an FJR? ;D
Correction. Bob just happens to own and ride an FJR. He doesn't endorse any particular motorcycle. Since peoples taste's, fit and needs vary from person to person. He feels that only the perspective buyer/owner can know what is right for them! He does in fact recommend many bikes including the C14 and FJR. But not any full fledged endorsement, since people have different needs and tastes that might and do differ from what his may be! ;)
Don't you just love how he posted that like a third person! 8)
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Glad you added the last line ... cause i was/did comment. ;D
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Brian! I was told by my supplier that Angels in 190/55 are available now and he will have them in the next couple of weeks.
Go with 55's if you can, maybe change your order if you have that option.
I ordered them yesterday from Competition accesories, it seems they have already shipped. What is the advantage of going with the 55's?
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What is the advantage of going with the 55's?
That's what I'm wondering.
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I ordered them yesterday from Competition accesories, it seems they have already shipped. What is the advantage of going with the 55's?
That's what I'm wondering.
Quicker steering, more contact patch at full lean. At the present time I have 190/50 Angels on my bike but as soon as the need arises for new rubbers I am going with 190/55s.
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It's probably a HUGE mistake to tell Steve he's right about something. Plus, that means now he'll need to buy a 4XL size helmet. ;D
Just saying . . .
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It's probably a HUGE mistake to tell Steve he's right about something. Plus, that means now he'll need to buy a 4XL size helmet. ;D
Just saying . . .
I wanted to say that, but i figured that even a broken clock is right twice a day. So why not let him have his fun! :rotflmao:
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Quicker steering, more contact patch at full lean. At the present time I have 190/50 Angels on my bike but as soon as the need arises for new rubbers I am going with 190/55s.
IMO, You seem to do OK on the 50's! :thumbs:
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There ya' go Bob, fixed it up for ya'.
Brian
Correction. Bob just happens to own and ride an FJR. He doesn't endorse any particular motorcycle but does find his cane fits a Fudger better and a Snuggie looks better flapping behind of of those things. Since peoples taste's, fit and needs vary from person to person. He feels that only the perspective buyer/owner can know what is right for them! He does in fact recommend many bikes including the C14 and FJR. But not any full fledged endorsement, since people have different needs and tastes that might and do differ from what his may be! ;)
Don't you just love how he posted that like a third person! 8)
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The contact patch area will stay the same given the same bike weight (gross) and tire pressure. Only reducing the tire pressure or increasing the weight on the tire will increase the contact patch size.
I am not even going to comment on the 'need arising for new rubbers'.
Brian
Quicker steering, more contact patch at full lean. At the present time I have 190/50 Angels on my bike but as soon as the need arises for new rubbers I am going with 190/55s.
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so for us guys with ABS/TRAC would this be a wise choice to switch tire sizes?
i know on a car it will mess with the ABS/TRAC ECUs, and i would assume that it would do the same on a bike......right?
I plan to stay with the original size, I just don't see how changing could make that big of a difference. Of course I tend to worry too much.
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I am not even going to comment on the 'need arising for new rubbers'.
Brian
Brian The Great speechless? No way! :rotflmao: :chugbeer:
IMO, You seem to do OK on the 50's! :thumbs:
Thank you Cap'n!(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy065.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Btw, with you at the controls, that FJR is a thoroughbred not a donkey. I can't wait to ride with you,again! :thumbs: :hail:
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I plan to stay with the original size, I just don't see how changing could make that big of a difference. Of course I tend to worry too much.
Thats what I thought till I had the opportunity to compare the two sizes on the same bike!
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Thats what I thought till I had the opportunity to compare the two sizes on the same bike!
That's what she said . . .
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I plan to stay with the original size, I just don't see how changing could make that big of a difference. Of course I tend to worry too much.
Steeper head angle, makes the bike steer quicker. I'm for sure doing the 190/55 when I burn up the PR2s I'm running now.
*EDIT*
Also, the 190/55 will be forced to be taller on the same width rim than a 180/55, thus the profile will produce a more pronounced turn-in as well.
*EDIT*
Barry
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Well, 'rubbers' might have a different meaning in Canadia but down here using the word 'arising' and 'rubbers' in the same sentance is funny. I just can't comment too much in a public forum.
By the way, fixed that Cap'n Bob message for you. ;D
Brian
Brian The Great speechless? No way! :rotflmao: :chugbeer:Thank you Cap'n!(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy065.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Btw, with you at the controls, that FJR is a thoroughbred not a donkey. I can't wait to ride with you,again because your riding makes me look great! :thumbs: :hail:
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The contact patch area will stay the same given the same bike weight (gross) and tire pressure. Only reducing the tire pressure or increasing the weight on the tire will increase the contact patch size.
I am not even going to comment on the 'need arising for new rubbers'.
Brian
Brian, you are not really perpetuating that myth are you? I've never believed that and never will. Why would they put wider tires on cars if the contact patch never changes?
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Good for you, Jim! I am a big fan of anyone who can stand behind their beliefs no matter what the facts might suggest. ???
"To me the truth is precious.... I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong.... (My views have) already won for me the scorn and contempt and ridicule of some of my fellowmen. I am looked upon as being odd, strange, peculiar.... But truth is truth and though all the world would reject it and turn against me, I will cling to truth still."
Charles S. deFord From the introduction to his 1931 book in which he proves the earth is flat.
Back to tires: Area = Force / Pressure. The only way to increase area is to increase force or reduce pressure. To answer your question directly, the reason wider tires are used in some forms of racing is so that the pressure inside the tire can be reduced and gain area. Wrinkle- wall slicks on funny cars and rails run about 2 PSI. If you put that same amount of pressure in a smaller tire the contact patch area would be the same size but the tire could not take the stress of drag racing.
Force = Mass X Area and the Earth goes around the Sun. Just a head- start for future debates.... ;) ;D
Brian
Brian, you are not really perpetuating that myth are you? I've never believed that and never will. Why would they put wider tires on cars if the contact patch never changes?
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or this one:
http://www.casporttouring.com/optimizer/product/14161.html (http://www.casporttouring.com/optimizer/product/14161.html)
cheaper here:
http://wingstuff.com/pgroup_detail/2065_goldwing_oil_filter_wrench_fits_gl1500_gl1800/ (http://wingstuff.com/pgroup_detail/2065_goldwing_oil_filter_wrench_fits_gl1500_gl1800/)
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Good for you, Jim! I am a big fan of anyone who can stand behind their beliefs no matter what the facts might suggest. ???
"To me the truth is precious.... I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong.... (My views have) already won for me the scorn and contempt and ridicule of some of my fellowmen. I am looked upon as being odd, strange, peculiar.... But truth is truth and though all the world would reject it and turn against me, I will cling to truth still."
Charles S. deFord From the introduction to his 1931 book in which he proves the earth is flat.
Back to tires: Area = Force / Pressure. The only way to increase area is to increase force or reduce pressure. To answer your question directly, the reason wider tires are used in some forms of racing is so that the pressure inside the tire can be reduced and gain area. Wrinkle- wall slicks on funny cars and rails run about 2 PSI. If you put that same amount of pressure in a smaller tire the contact patch area would be the same size but the tire could not take the stress of drag racing.
Force = Mass X Area and the Earth goes around the Sun. Just a head- start for future debates.... ;) ;D
Brian
Brian, I know you are a really smart guy, but I still don't believe it. Why don't I just run bicycle sized tires on my Z06? On street cars, the tire pressures are no different from one tire to the next on cars like the Corvette - different models of the Corvette have three different sized tires. Can you honestly tell me that you believe that if I run a bicycle tire on my Corvette at 30lbs that it will have the same amount of rubber on the ground as my 325/30-19's with 30lbs in them? How do you account for tires with tread patterns versus slicks?
I'm not smart enough to explain it, but I really believe that the theory behind your contention is taken out of context when it comes to tires. I'll go to my grave not believing it that tread width and diameter of the tire don't make any difference if the weight on the tire and the pressures are the same.
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Seriously, tires change size to do different jobs and handle different levels of stress. The contact patch area really (really, really) is a function of the weight on that tire and the pressure inside it.
One exception would be grooves because the tire carcass is tough enough to resist deforming across tread cuts. So from the inside of the tire, it would have about the same contact patch size regardless of the tread so yes, a slick would put some additional rubber in contact with the ground (additional contact area) where a treaded tire had the tread cut out.
But really, when you increase a tire's size for a given vehicle, you have to reduce the pressure that inflates that tire to maintain correct tire geometry; it is the lowering of the pressure that increases the contact patch area, not the size of the tire itself.
And I didn't say that all tires could do any other tire's job or function, just that the contact patch area is a function of pressure and weight (force). There are some photos out and about on the 'Net to show this very thing (same tire, different inflation and correspondingly varying contact areas).
As far as the bicycle tires on an auto (any reasonable auto), no that would not work simply because the tire does not have enough area to satisfy the requirements of the vehicle load. In other words, there isn't enough A available in the tire to support the F no matter what the P. ;D But because bicycle tires will not work on an auto does not mean the physics has failed, only that another problem has become dominant. The same thing happens when a tire goes flat- just because pressure goes to zero does not mean that the area goes to infinity, it simply means that having a flat tire is the major problem and the car is now resting on the wheel edges through the flat tire carcass.
So changing a motorcycle tire to another applicable size won't change the contact patch area if the pressures used are the same. I am not trying to convince you here, just discussing the matter.
Brian
Brian, I know you are a really smart guy, but I still don't believe it. Why don't I just run bicycle sized tires on my Z06? On street cars, the tire pressures are no different from one tire to the next on cars like the Corvette - different models of the Corvette have three different sized tires. Can you honestly tell me that you believe that if I run a bicycle tire on my Corvette at 30lbs that it will have the same amount of rubber on the ground as my 325/30-19's with 30lbs in them? How do you account for tires with tread patterns versus slicks?
I'm not smart enough to explain it, but I really believe that the theory behind your contention is taken out of context when it comes to tires. I'll go to my grave not believing it that tread width and diameter of the tire don't make any difference if the weight on the tire and the pressures are the same.
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Brian, thanks for taking the time to write such a nice reply - in many ways. That is one of the things I think we all appreciate about you on the forum.
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Thanks for the kind words Jim but hey, we're just conversing here. No need to get nasty or anything like that, and I always 'talk' to people on the forum (or anywhere else) as I would if standing in front of that person (or people). It saves a lot of time later when we all meet at an event and I don't have to wonder who's enraged before I even meet them. ;) There is an old sayin' in Texas: Everyone should be afforded the respect due an armed man.
Brian
Brian, thanks for taking the time to write such a nice reply - in many ways. That is one of the things I think we all appreciate about you on the forum.
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Brian, I know you are a really smart guy, but I still don't believe it. Why don't I just run bicycle sized tires on my Z06? On street cars, the tire pressures are no different from one tire to the next on cars like the Corvette - different models of the Corvette have three different sized tires. Can you honestly tell me that you believe that if I run a bicycle tire on my Corvette at 30lbs that it will have the same amount of rubber on the ground as my 325/30-19's with 30lbs in them? How do you account for tires with tread patterns versus slicks?
I'm not smart enough to explain it, but I really believe that the theory behind your contention is taken out of context when it comes to tires. I'll go to my grave not believing it that tread width and diameter of the tire don't make any difference if the weight on the tire and the pressures are the same.
brian should have said tires of the same carcass contstruction have same contact patch figuring the same psi and loading.
A bicycle tire and drag racing slick for a car would have much different carcass construction.
I think he's right btw .
Maybe some one trained in that field (physics) could chime in.
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The tire construction won't really come into play moving between similar tires of similar sizes. Again, this discussion was about swapping a motorcycle tire from a 190/50 to a 185/55 or a 190/55; the difference in contact patch area between all of those sizes on the same motorcycle will be because of any pressure differences, not because of the different tire sizes. The contact patch shape may vary with the size of the tire but not the overall area.
Maybe someone trained in physics already did chime in? ;) I don't think there is much room in A = F/P for interpretation.
Brian
brian should have said tires of the same carcass contstruction have same contact patch figuring the same psi and loading.
A bicycle tire and drag racing slick for a car would have much different carcass construction.
I think he's right btw .
Maybe some one trained in that field (physics) could chime in.
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this discussion was about swapping a motorcycle tire from a 190/50 to a 185/55 or a 190/55; the difference in contact patch area between all of those sizes on the same motorcycle will be because of any pressure differences, not because of the different tire sizes.
we are in agreement ...i think
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I think the reason for 55 series tires is to put more rubber on the road when leaned over - take a look at the profile of two two tires and you'll see what I' mean.
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I think the reason for 55 series tires is to put more rubber on the road when leaned over - take a look at the profile of two two tires and you'll see what I' mean.
you can get that with 180/55 also.
The bonus is less unsprung weight.
Some will spend thousands trying to lighten their wheels but put a heavier than nessasary tire on.
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you can get that with 180/55 also.
The bonus is less unsprung weight.
Some will spend thousands trying to lighten their wheels but put a heavier than nessasary tire on.
Not trying to be a smart azz. But being a former FJR rider, I'm sure Jim is probably aware of that. Because of my posting this, obviously 180/55 is the rear FJR size. ;)
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Not trying to be a smart azz. But being a former FJR rider, I'm sure Jim is probably aware of that. Because of my posting this, obviously 180/55 is the rear FJR size. ;)
Thanks for covering me :)
The debate as to which is better - a 180 or 190 in a 55 series is pretty insignificant to me. The math is easy to run to figure out what going from one to the other does to the height of the tire. No question it will change how "stretched" the tire is on the same size wheel, which will have some impact on the profile of the tire. Six to one/half dozen to the other. I'll be trying a 190 because I'd rather not change the profile of the tire once by going to a 55, then changing the profile again by downsizing to a 180 - which by my account would be back toward the profile of the original 190/50.
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Thanks for covering me :)
The debate as to which is better - a 180 or 190 in a 55 series is pretty insignificant to me. The math is easy to run to figure out what going from one to the other does to the height of the tire. No question it will change how "stretched" the tire is on the same size wheel, which will have some impact on the profile of the tire. Six to one/half dozen to the other. I'll be trying a 190 because I'd rather not change the profile of the tire once by going to a 55, then changing the profile again by downsizing to a 180 - which by my account would be back toward the profile of the original 190/50.
i tried a 180/55 a couple of years ago, the profile of that tire on a 6 inch rim was noticably flatter.
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i tried a 180/55 a couple of years ago, the profile of that tire on a 6 inch rim was noticably flatter.
flatter than what??
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All this theory about rim size, tire size, and handling results is of interest.
However, until you've tried an alternative rear tire size on your motorcycle, you won't know the real world results.
Personally, I have used 180/55 tires on the ZX-12R, the ZX-10R, and the C14, all with good results.
So, until you've tried it yourself, keep an open mind.
Best wishes,
Dave
Bradenton Florida
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All this theory about rim size, tire size, and handling results is of interest.
However, until you've tried an alternative rear tire size on your motorcycle, you won't know the real world results.
Personally, I have used 180/55 tires on the ZX-12R, the ZX-10R, and the C14, all with good results.
So, until you've tried it yourself, keep an open mind.
Best wishes,
Dave
Bradenton Florida
Your words are well chosen and I appreciate the way you put that. My question for you is...have you tried a 190/55 and a 180/55 on the Concours? If so, how would you compare them?
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HOW did this manage to get to 3 pages without Steve chiming in? ???
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HOW did this manage to get to 3 pages without Steve chiming in? ???
Maybe he is out riding like the rest of us should be, instead of coming to work.
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Your words are well chosen and I appreciate the way you put that. My question for you is...have you tried a 190/55 and a 180/55 on the Concours? If so, how would you compare them?
No, I haven't. I went straight from the stock 190/50 BT021 to PR2s with a 180/55. This works great; the bike has a nice easy turn-in response.
I'm guessing the 190/55 would be even more responsive because it should raise the rear ride height. For that very reason, I did not go with a 190/55 because at 5-9. with a ZX-14 seat (one inch lower than stock), I can get my feet down OK, but not great. Both my other bikes have a lower ride height, plus they are lighter bikes. I do not want to drop the C14 some day because I can't get good footing on an uneven surface.
On the other hand, since the PR2 and recently the Angel ST are available in 190/55, I will be trying them on my SV and Ninja and evaluate.
Best wishes,
Dave
Tampa Crashers Internet List
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No, I haven't. I went straight from the stock 190/50 BT021 to PR2s with a 180/55. This works great; the bike has a nice easy turn-in response.
I'm guessing the 190/55 would be even more responsive because it should raise the rear ride height. For that very reason, I did not go with a 190/55 because at 5-9. with a ZX-14 seat (one inch lower than stock), I can get my feet down OK, but not great. Both my other bikes have a lower ride height, plus they are lighter bikes. I do not want to drop the C14 some day because I can't get good footing on an uneven surface.
On the other hand, since the PR2 and recently the Angel ST are available in 190/55, I will be trying them on my SV and Ninja and evaluate.
Best wishes,
Dave
Tampa Crashers Internet List
Thanks for the input Dave. Which Ninja 1000 do you have - is that the new one? If so, I've been very curious about that bike, I'd really like to ride one.
Like this?
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/2011-Ninja-1000-Static.jpg)
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flatter than what??
a 190/50.
the wider the rim, the more flattened the profile (using the same size tire) i compensated some by running abit more air pressure but i dont think that made much difference though.
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Thanks for the input Dave. Which Ninja 1000 do you have - is that the new one? If so, I've been very curious about that bike, I'd really like to ride one.
Like this?
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/large/2011-Ninja-1000-Static.jpg)
Yes, just got it as a replacement for my '06 ZX-10R. I have about 600 miles. Briefly, it's a soft-core (125 rwhp) sportbike with rider friendly ergos and a great powerband. The engine is NOT restricted in the lower 4 gears like a ZX-10 or C14, so it's got LOTS of torque at low rpm. The handling is excellent with very good suspension compliance. Brakes are excellent. Digital speedo, analog tachometer, and a gas gauge. This is a rider's motorcycle. You can jump on it and start bending curves with confidence. Negatives: the seat is a bit firm and the gearing a little low (can you say "wheelie"). All in all, I love it!
Dave
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I put my new 190/55 PR2 on today and I have to give it to SteveWFL.......... this is a great tire. Turn in is noticebly quicker than the Shinko Raven and the 190/50 PR2. I only got to ride about 30 miles and am completely impressed, I have found my tire to stick with as long as I get decent mileage out of it. I ended up getting about 6300 miles (completely shagged) out of the Raven which was a little more than the PR2 that it replaced. Thanks for hyping the 55 Steve!
You're welcome, for those of us who care about performance the 55 tire difference is profound. For those who don't turn in quickly its a wash anyway (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/cheers.gif)
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You're welcome, for those of us who care about performance the 55 tire difference is profound. For those who don't turn in quickly its a wash anyway (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/cheers.gif)
Thanks for the report. I've read all of the tests on it and sat on it. I think it would make a good third bike for me. I just haven't figured out how to get a third bike into the program around here. My last big purchase that was not planned cost me a new dining room set and a 12 night Mediterranean cruise! :o
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Thanks for the report. I've read all of the tests on it and sat on it. I think it would make a good third bike for me. I just haven't figured out how to get a third bike into the program around here. My last big purchase that was not planned cost me a new dining room set and a 12 night Mediterranean cruise! :o
You don't really NEED a dining room set. The cruise, well that would depend on who you you're bunking with.
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You don't really NEED a dining room set. The cruise, well that would depend on who you you're bunking with.
I didn't need either. I NEEDED to buy both of them for my wife!