Thank you sir, for that.  To me, the exact %'s and cc's don't really matter that much.  That is the explaination I was seeking, and from the video creater, no less.  I thought that was what was happening and even if every # isn't  perfect, I am understanding the recalibration purpose, now.  Again, Thank You Sir... tomp

The ECU is now programmed to see that when the throttle is fully closed, the TPS Voltage is 1.46V, Therefore it needs to spray 200CC's of fuel in.  Because it's a simple computer, it cannot detect a negative percentage, so when you close the ACTUAL THROTTLE, the ECU is still putting out it's current minimum amount of fuel set for TPS 25%, because according to the ECU's calibrated programming, TPS 25% = ECU 0%  Thus when you close the throttle completely, and the ECU is still putting out TPS 25% of fuel, but the Throttle is a 0%, you run into an extremely rich condition, thus making the engine run rough and inefficient.

Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking... I'm not an engineer.

Haha...don't worry, I'm only laughing here because we're having a fun and interesting discussion. This is quality stuff.

Ok, so...just to clarify...the FI ECU fuel map(s) are in percentages....not volts. Forget about the TPS volts for a second...the volts do not determine how much fuel is injected.

The FI ECU converts the TPS volts into percentages so that it knows exactly how far the throttle plates are open.

If you were able to calibrate the ECU so that 1.46v was 0%, then the ECU would inject the amount of fuel at 0% in the fuel map....which is @ idle.

I hope that helps.
Rem

Haha...don't worry, I'm only laughing here because we're having a fun and interesting discussion. This is quality stuff.

Ok, so...just to clarify...the FI ECU fuel map(s) are in percentages....not volts. Forget about the TPS volts for a second...the volts do not determine how much fuel is injected.

The FI ECU converts the TPS volts into percentages so that it knows exactly how far the throttle plates are open.

If you were able to calibrate the ECU so that 1.46v was 0%, then the ECU would inject the amount of fuel at 0% in the fuel map....which is @ idle.

I hope that helps.
Rem

So I was close... ish...

So in reality it would be?


                    CORRECT
                    Fuel CCs
TPS    0% =  100CC    ECU OUT OF RANGE - 100CC   - Idle correct A/F, Lean until 25% throttle turn
TPS  25% =  200CC    ECU     0% - 1.46V - 100CC    - Correct A/F Mixture (SPIKE IN RPMs OCCURS HERE)
TPS  50% =  300CC    ECU   33% - 2.23V - 232CC    - Lean condition, less power, requiring slightly more throttle, using more fuel to maintain speed
TPS  75% =  400CC    ECU   67% - 3.01V - 364CC    - Less lean condition, but still down on power, requiring slightly more throttle so on...
TPS 100%=  500CC    ECU 100% - 3.78V - 500CC    - Proper A/F mixture


If it's running lean, then that wouldn't explain why I was smelling fuel out of the exhaust when I started it...




EDIT:  I'm going to go back through my math steps again with that new knowledge after I get caught up on work here. May be tomorrow morning.

Ok, so...just to clarify...the FI ECU fuel map(s) are in percentages....not volts. Forget about the TPS volts for a second...the volts do not determine how much fuel is injected.

The FI ECU converts the TPS volts into percentages so that it knows exactly how far the throttle plates are open.

If you were able to calibrate the ECU so that 1.46v was 0%, then the ECU would inject the amount of fuel at 0% in the fuel map....which is @ idle.

I hope that helps.
Rem

Yes, it helps me a bunch, I think. I thought that was what I was trying to say earlier.

However we still don't have any hard data (from the KDS or anywhere else) as to if the "TPS Calibration procedure" is changing anything or just what it is changing right? All we have hard data on is the sensor voltage.

Yes, it helps me a bunch, I think. I thought that was what I was trying to say earlier.

However we still don't have any hard data (from the KDS or anywhere else) as to if the "TPS Calibration procedure" is changing anything or just what it is changing right? All we have hard data on is the sensor voltage.

Well, the lack of hard data is almost data in itself isn't it?

If there was a calibration procedure, it should definitely be in the service manual following an ECU change, and it isn't there. I actually have two ECU's...one is a spare from another 2010 model C14 that I bought when I was first flashing my ECU(s). I've swapped them in and out of my C14 many times, and I've never calibrated anything. If the FI ECU needs to be calibrated to the TPS in order for it to work properly, then there's no way that I should be able to install a used FI ECU out of a wrecked bike in my 2010 C14 and have it run showroom smooth.

I'm not trying to give the original poster a hard time or anything...lol, I'm just throwing some realism into the mix of optimism and skepticism...lol.

That's all just my opinion of course...maybe my C14 isn't running well and I think it is? Anything is possible...we all 'feel' things differently on these bikes that are mostly all the same.

Maybe we'll all learn something new here.

Rem

That is what I was trying to address earlier- the KDS system would not be useful if it reported a sensor's position but that data was in any way 'massaged' or changed by the ECU. What the diagnostic software would have to report is the actual data [as used] by the ECU; if there were an electronic calibration mode, it would not be useful to show the technical the raw data without the calibration included or in a separate column. So Cory has already given you 'the poop' as the ECU reads it.

Just to add another bit of information: the throttle position sensor has circular slots where it bolts to the throttle body linkage. Those are there to adjust the sensor to 'read correctly' and.... wait for it..... calibrate the sensor to the installation on the bike. The factory does the adjustment, then uses the <glue- paint> to lock the sensor in that position. They would not do that if there was an electronic adjustment.

And finally, if there were such a calibration procedure, it would not only be in the manual, it would be in bold letters so the technicians working on the bike could correct all the miss- adjusted bikes that unwitting or unable customers got too first :-)   Why would Kawasaki keep it a secret from them? How would they find out about this calibration procedure so they could work on the bike?

Again, not arguing or disputing anyone's' findings, just pointing out how I believe the system works and why, plus what I have found in other systems.

Brian

Yes, it helps me a bunch, I think. I thought that was what I was trying to say earlier.

However we still don't have any hard data (from the KDS or anywhere else) as to if the "TPS Calibration procedure" is changing anything or just what it is changing right? All we have hard data on is the sensor voltage.

You posted while I was still typing I guess but more or less, yeah, what you said.

 

Brian

Well, the lack of hard data is almost data in itself isn't it?

If there was a calibration procedure, it should definitely be in the service manual following an ECU change, and it isn't there. I actually have two ECU's...one is a spare from another 2010 model C14 that I bought when I was first flashing my ECU(s). I've swapped them in and out of my C14 many times, and I've never calibrated anything. If the FI ECU needs to be calibrated to the TPS in order for it to work properly, then there's no way that I should be able to install a used FI ECU out of a wrecked bike in my 2010 C14 and have it run showroom smooth.

I'm not trying to give the original poster a hard time or anything...lol, I'm just throwing some realism into the mix of optimism and skepticism...lol.

That's all just my opinion of course...maybe my C14 isn't running well and I think it is? Anything is possible...we all 'feel' things differently on these bikes that are mostly all the same.

Maybe we'll all learn something new here.

Rem

Well, the lack of hard data is almost data in itself isn't it?

<snip>

Maybe we'll all learn something new here.

I think the only way to get hard data would be to do a dyno run with it.  That would give us a REAL look at all of the data...

I wonder if my shop will donate some dyno time for science... (Yeah right... lol)

Actually, a dyno is not really what is wanted here- an O2 sensor log from a "miss- calibrated" C-14, coupled with the same bike "correctly calibrated" would be ideal. Now if we could only find someone with an O2 sensor on a C-14 that can collect that data and likes to tinker..... Let me think, who could that be..... 

 

Brian

I think the only way to get hard data would be to do a dyno run with it.  That would give us a REAL look at all of the data...

I wonder if my shop will donate some dyno time for science... (Yeah right... lol)

Actually, a dyno is not really what is wanted here- an O2 sensor log from a "miss- calibrated" C-14, coupled with the same bike "correctly calibrated" would be ideal. Now if we could only find someone with an O2 sensor on a C-14 that can collect that data and likes to tinker..... Let me think, who could that be..... 

 

Brian

Hahahahahaha.....it actually took me a second to catch on here...duh...lol.

We'll see...lol. I was just digging through all the closets tonight trying to locate all of my Firstgear long underwear and my heated vest, etc. It's starting to cool off here and everybody is all but putting their bikes away, and here I am planning my riding for the next two months like it's the start of spring already...lol.

I may do some more tuning (and tinkering) this fall if I have time.

Rem

Well, the lack of hard data is almost data in itself isn't it?

I have to agree with the two of you until I experience something different. Maybe I'll try to mis-adjust mine both ways to see if I can recreate ....anything?

I'll disconnect the battery and reconnect power, then with an improvised throttle lock I'll try the procedure with an approximately 25% open throttle as the closed position.

test results..

then regardless of results

repeat the procedure but use 3/4s open as WOT

and test results..

..just not today...maybe tomorrow. Please someone feel free to beat me to it.   

Hahahahahaha.....it actually took me a second to catch on here...duh...lol.

We'll see...lol. I was just digging through all the closets tonight trying to locate all of my Firstgear long underwear and my heated vest, etc. It's starting to cool off here and everybody is all but putting their bikes away, and here I am planning my riding for the next two months like it's the start of spring already...lol.

I may do some more tuning (and tinkering) this fall if I have time.

Rem

Cheers mate! I've been riding year round for 5 years, this coming winter (can take it's time coming) will be my second winter on the concours... Don't miss the days of no wind protection at all lol

Cheers mate! I've been riding year round for 5 years, this coming winter (can take it's time coming) will be my second winter on the concours... Don't miss the days of no wind protection at all lol

Dead Mans Pass!!  I love winter riding

Brian, why the hesitation?  NOT calling you out, but, if nothing happens, why not do it?  Genuine question?  Yes, genuine.  There are those who think the moon landing was actually filmed in a studio set.  Prove or disprove (at least to your satisfaction) by action and not theory.  I wish I still had my C14 to do the procedure myself.  I am super curious (and naturally want to think I stumbled on something unique, a first of sorts).  For a friend if nothing else, just do it, please?

Dead Mans Pass!!  I love winter riding

       What tyres are you using on those bikes? Do you have studs in them?

       What tyres are you using on those bikes? Do you have studs in them?

...and who is your buddy back there in the distance..and who is taking the picture...questions, questions, enquiring minds etc etc.

We were using the Aerostitch screw in studs, I was on the over pass taking the pics (OMG, just nasty plowing through the chunked up snow), buddy was taking pictures.  Tires were knobbies of a variety, 2 F800GSs and a 1200GSA.  Yes, I will do this again, studs made travel at 45ish feel planted and confident.  Lesson learned?  Once you are on clear pavement, stop and pull the studs, they will eventually migrate into the tire/tube and give you a flat.  I learned that the hard way 2 days prior as I wanted to do a run to see how it would impact traction on a non icy surface, other than a really cool sound I felt safe at highway speeds and noticed no loss of traction at these speeds.

Brian, I was ballsy enough to do the studs, the LEAST you could do??

Wow Chet, I can see my [not frolicking] with this thing is really tasking you. Hey, if it really does mean something to you, I will do it and report my results.

But to directly answer your question, I do not believe it works and therefore am not interested in it enough to spend any time on it. There are thousands, maybe millions of things I simply do not believe 1) actually are as they are perceived to be ('Never take the key out of the ignition, it is bad ju-ju') or are not caused by what is thought to cause them ('Kill the virgin, grow the corn'). The world has to make sense to me and this 'hidden calibration' technique does not on quite a few levels and for several reasons, all mentioned earlier in the thread.

Now, that said, if you want me to give it a shot (an honest shot), no problem. It won't take long and will be, I believe, quite obvious if it does recalibrate the throttle. And of course if it does work, I will be a convert forever, go to the meetings and everything and praise the gods of throttle position sensors for all time. :-) Lemme see if I can sneak out later and tweak my bike (Easy Boys!).

Brian

Brian, why the hesitation?  NOT calling you out, but, if nothing happens, why not do it?  Genuine question?  Yes, genuine.  There are those who think the moon landing was actually filmed in a studio set.  Prove or disprove (at least to your satisfaction) by action and not theory.  I wish I still had my C14 to do the procedure myself.  I am super curious (and naturally want to think I stumbled on something unique, a first of sorts).  For a friend if nothing else, just do it, please?

Dead Mans Pass!!  I love winter riding

I ride all year round even in Colorado but not on roads with ice or snow. Studs must make a huge difference because without them, this is just nuts.

Tweak away, yes, I am that curious. 

I ride all year round even in Colorado but not on roads with ice or snow. Studs must make a huge difference because without them, this is just nuts.

On the return trip we intended to beat the sunset, didn't happen, we watched the temp gauge hover at 33, just as the sun was setting the flurries started in, still at 33.  Sun goes down, no good spot to pull off safely (yes, I said safely).  The third member of our party had headed west to meet up with his lady friend.  Somehow we allowed him to leave with the cordless driver we used for the stud insertion and removal.  Yes, we were as the saying goes, screwed, without the benefit of a reach around.  Slowed down to a safe (er) speed, repeated the words ride relaxed, it's just like mud, (a million times).  It started snowing for real, hands got cold from wiping the snow off of my visor (Hippo hands work great with plain old dry gloves and the grip warmers on).  We stopped at an overpass (no snow, brakes worked there) to put on dry, insulated gloves.  Continued on.  The worst part?  Getting passed by a truck doing 45ish, wind blast pushed me several feet sideways.  Needless to say I was scared stiff and frozen with fear.  No pun intended...  Made it through the pass, temps got to 35, felt almost balmy as the sweat started thawing.  Dennys never looked so good.  Moral of the story?  I don't have one, maybe Brian can come up with something witty after he gives the procedure a try?

FWIW, true story.