New car time- shocking

[maxtog]

I must be crazy.   In a "shocking" turn of events, I traded in my very nice Infiniti G37S Journey sedan I have been driving for 16 years.  I bought a 2025 Ariya Platinum+ in gunmetal grey with blue-grey interior.  I took it home tonight, and it is sitting in the garage   It's electric!

[DC Concours]

Good for you. Why not a Tesla? Supposedly they are giving those away.

[Boomer]

Nothing wrong with Electric cars if you never do long runs, and even those are do-able if you plan well.

Personally, I find the "driver assist" devices in all new cars are what puts me off, that and the lack of interior space.
(When are they ever going to figure out that there are customers out here who are 6'4" and just don't fit in their vehicles?)
I don't want lane assist or brake assist or speed limiters or any such crap.
If I am driving the car it should do what I tell it, not what it thinks it should do.
Over here all those can be disabled, but when you turn the ignition off and on again, it re-enables all of them which I hate.
Until the car can 100% drive itself, I am the driver and I decide what happens. Yes, I am a control freak! 

I'm gonna stick with my 2004 145k mile Lexus LS430 for the foreseeable future.
In fact I am about to spend $6000 on new suspension, getting the air-con fixed, and a few other jobs that need doing on it.

[Strawboss]

I drove a Chevy Bolt occasionally at work a few years ago, nice for around town but just not for me. I never heard of Ariya, who makes it?

[maxtog]

Good for you. Why not a Tesla? Supposedly they are giving those away.

Top 5:
1) They are ugly
2) They do not have real dashboards
3) They do not have real controls
4) The build quality is a bit questionable
5) They are not as comfortable

In most respects, the Ariya Platinum walks all over a Tesla.  Especially in the areas that were most important to me.

I find it amazing something this heavy can go 0-60 in 4.8sec, and with barely a whisper.  It is freaky.  Of course, you can feel the weight in other ways

[maxtog]

I drove a Chevy Bolt occasionally at work a few years ago, nice for around town but just not for me. I never heard of Ariya, who makes it?

Nissan.  But in trim respects, the Platinum might have been badged as an Infiniti (which of course is still Nissan).

Interestingly, I had never heard of it either.  It went completely under my radar.  Mostly because I had narrowed my vision too much.  Once I did discover it, I kinda dismissed it because I really wasn't interested in SUVs, even if it is a "crossover".  Researched it a ton, and it checked so many of my boxes.  Once I experienced it, I realized maybe I was wrong.

[maxtog]

Personally, I find the "driver assist" devices in all new cars are what puts me off

I am a tech/gadget freak, so I do like features.  And some of the driver assist stuff I do find useful.  The Ariya Platinum is packed with features.  I already absolutely love the air conditioned seats,  360-degree cameras, remote HVAC control, "kick air" to auto-open the liftgate/hatch, folding mirrors, video rear-view mirror, etc, etc.

that and the lack of interior space.

I think that is well-addressed in the Ariya.

If I am driving the car it should do what I tell it, not what it thinks it should do.

Yeah, I have no problems with reasonably-implemented warnings (lane departure, blind spot, driver sleep detection, pedestrian crossing, parking stuff, etc) but I am not crazy about "interventions".  On the Ariya, you can generally select warnings or intervention.

Over here all those can be disabled, but when you turn the ignition off and on again, it re-enables all of them which I hate.

Yes, that is the part I hate about most of those things.  For example, the drive mode reverts back to "Standard" every time.  Why?  But many of the settings are "sticky."

I am not likely to ever use the automatic parking, or semi-autonomous driving stuff.

What I am most concerned about is the telemetry crap.  It seems all new vehicles now spy on everything you do and send it to HQ.  And the "subscription" services that are needed to keep much of the tech [fully] operational, that is annoying.

[Strawboss]

Our newest car is a 2015 Ford Fiesta. we have no plans to replace it anytime soon. It is primarily my wife's car and she is essentially local, no trips beyond 50 miles, an EV would be perfect for her, beyond perfect in fact. Two things though. She will absolutely not even think about an EV, no way, no how, ain't gonna happen. Until the range and battery replacement costs and transmissions are worked out to where they can mimic a gasoline car, one on one, an EV is not in my future.

Let us know how it goes, I'm interested in the range. Also, no one can tell me exactly how much it costs to charge one up, at home, at a public charge station, etc... and how long it takes.

[DC Concours]

I am looking at getting a used EV.

Can Anyone recommend a reliable used Toyota ev model other than a Prius?

[maxtog]

Until the range and battery replacement costs and transmissions are worked out to where they can mimic a gasoline car, one on one, an EV is not in my future.

The range is probably almost there now, depending on your use case.  Moreso if you get a "big battery" version, like I did.  The advertised range for this model (Platinum AWD) is around 267 miles mixed, and lots of reviews confirm that is very realistic.  That is more range than the Concours    But, of course, I can fill the Concours in 5 minutes anywhere.

Battery replacement cost- well, that is likely to improve, but it will always be very expensive.  If you put low mileage, like I do, then it will essentially last "forever".  If not, it has to be a factor.  I don't know what you mean by "transmissions".  There really isn't one, at least, not like we typically think of one.  The Ariya Platinum has two motors and two "transmissions", but they are really only fixed gear reduction differentials with no gear shifts or controls (other than a parking cogs).  Very simple, pretty much maintenance free from what I can tell.

Let us know how it goes, I'm interested in the range.

Well, it will take a very long time for me to know, based on how little I drive

Also, no one can tell me exactly how much it costs to charge one up, at home, at a public charge station, etc... and how long it takes.

That is because there are so many factors involved.  Charging time depends on battery size, temperature, battery management systems, SOG (state of current charge), charger size, charger capacity at the time, etc.  And that says nothing about the range for that charge, which depends on temperature, what accessories are used (HVAC for example), weight, how you drive- what speed, how much you accelerate, how much braking regeneration is available, how much added weight in cargo/people, etc.

The cost at home is very simple.  Simply look at your electric bill and find your $ per kWh.  Then multiply what you put into the vehicle.  As a test, I put 10KWh in the car and current rate is about $0.1564 per kWh (from bill, which includes taxes/fees/etc).  So that is $1.56.  According to the car, my last driving average was about 3 miles per kWh, so that gave me maybe around another 30 miles of travel. 

I have not tried a charging station (level 3 DC), I might never.  EV's have AC chargers built into the vehicle.  I can charge at home with level 1, currently only at 120V/12A, because the included EVSE can only do that or level 2 at 240V/30A with 50A plug/circuit (neither the car nor included EVSE has any adjustment for amperage pull, which is an atypical limitation).  I only have a 240V/30A plug/circuit, which is not enough/not compatible with that EVSE at level 2.  I would have to purchase a third-party EVSE (around $250 to $350) which can do 240V/24A and that would work on my outlet/circuit, and allow charging 400% faster.  I am considering it.

The Ariya Platinum has an 86kWh battery.  At level 1, it would take over 60 hours to charge from 0 to 100%.  Since I almost never travel tons of miles, and it sits unused in the garage for days at a time, regularly, anyway, and I will likely never wait until 0% to charge, it doesn't matter for me.  I am more likely to plug it in at 50% and charge to 80% or similar, and that takes 18 hours, by my computations, on level 1.  That same would take 4.5 hours at level 2.  But if I plan to go somewhere more distant, I might need to make sure I plan ahead to have it fully charged.  And if it is a trip beyond range, then I would have to figure out the DC fast charge situation.

[Strawboss]

If I heard correctly, not too long ago Toyota offered a free battery change when it was needed, I'm sure this offer is over. CVT, that's the big problem, all EV's have CVT's, which last about 80,000 miles and then need to be replaced at a cost of about $6000 give or take depending on maker. So, with the battery replacement and the tranny replacement, at roughly the same time, that for me is a big deal breaker for now.

Sorry, you lost me at ...."at home, it's very simple"... 30 miles for $1.56? So, about $9.00 to go 270 miles? So, drive up to a public charger with a half charge, plug in, 75 degrees, 40% humidity, no wind, sunny, just you in the car, no luggage, regular time, same as home, same voltage, same, everything as at home, what's it cost?

Sorry, not being flip or sarcastic, I have asked every single person that has an EV and have gotten the same vague answer, many variables, nobody can tell me.

So, I know when you use a public charger, you need to use your phone or credit card, what's the charge when it comes up on your bill for that charge time?

[maxtog]

CVT, that's the big problem, all EV's have CVT's, which last about 80,000 miles and then need to be replaced at a cost of about $6000 give or take depending on maker.

I have no idea what you are talking about.  I am not aware of *any* BEV that has a CVT (continuously variable transmission).  As I described in a previous post, there is a simple, non-shifting, one-speed gear-reduction differential (or two if 4WD) in the Ariya.  That appears to be also true with Tesla.  Maybe you are thinking about hybrids or something?

Sorry, you lost me at ...."at home, it's very simple"... 30 miles for $1.56? So, about $9.00 to go 270 miles?

Yes.  Of course, those are just averages and such, it will vary with the many factors I mentioned before.

So, drive up to a public charger with a half charge, plug in, 75 degrees, 40% humidity, no wind, sunny, just you in the car, no luggage, regular time, same as home, same voltage, same, everything as at home, what's it cost?

1) Most people do not use non-home charging at the same voltage/everything as they would at home (level 1/2).  Few have the time to wait for that at some station.  You would be mostly interested in level 3 (which you certainly cannot do at home).

2) The price will not be affected by luggage, number of passengers, temperature/weather, or type/brand of car (unless there is some special deal going).  The charging SPEED will be affected by temperature, charger type, shared capacity load at the charging center, car type/model, and state of charge.  But that isn't what you were asking about.  Speed doesn't affect cost at all.
 
3) The price will be whatever that charging station is pricing per kWh at that time, multiplied by however many kilowatt hours you consume.

Like gas stations, they will price whatever they want, within market pressure.  The cost of electricity will vary from region to region, similar to gas. However, unlike gas, in some areas, electricity is priced more during certain hours of the day.  So that will be reflected in the price charged to the customer as well.  The pricing will be disclosed at the charger and/or app.  I haven't been to a public charging station before, but I don't think they have signs with prices on it like gas stations typically do.  Most people do their shopping in [phone or car] "apps".

Sorry, not being flip or sarcastic, I have asked every single person that has an EV and have gotten the same vague answer, many variables, nobody can tell me.

Because you aren't asking a specific question that CAN be answered.  It would be like asking "how much will it cost to fill a vehicle with gas", unanswerable with unknown tank capacity, unknown retailer, and unknown location/region.  If you asked "how much will 50kWh cost at 8pm on a Tesla charger in central Virginia- that can be answered easily.

So, I know when you use a public charger, you need to use your phone or credit card, what's the charge when it comes up on your bill for that charge time?

See above.  Even before you initiate charge, you will know the cost per kWh.  And while you are charging, it will indicate (at the charger or app) the price, the rate you are charging at that moment (since it will vary), and the price so far.  You can stop the charging at any time.  It is no different than using a gas pump, except it will take a LOT longer to "pump" that electricity

A far, far more complicated question to answer is "how long" will a charge take.

[Boomer]

Toyota have only recently started to sell pure BEVs so not much choice there (bZ range).
They do most of their range in some form of Hybrid, but as you say those have complex transmissions and still run on gas, albeit more efficiently than pure gas vehicles.
I recently drove a Lexus LS500h and it's a VERY nice car but I can't stand the looks of the models with the gawping Basking Shark mouth grille.

On BEVs there is no transmission as such, just fixed reduction gears.
This is because electric motors produce peak torque at zero RPM, so there is no need for different gear ratios.
Typical car electric motors go from 0-10,000rpm which gives 0-130Mph with just one fixed gear ratio.
They will out-accelerate most equivalent gas vehicles even with the extra weight they carry, especially those with all 4 wheels driven.

BEV batteries typically should outlast the vehicle if driven normally. If you go drag racing or rag on it, then you will cause progressive damage to the battery, but that also applies to gas vehicles with the difference being that the damage is done to the motor/transmission instead.

I have a friend who bought a Tesla S-85 about 10 years ago and it has 110k miles on it and is still on the original battery. It has had to have a whole load of work done on the electronics but then it was one of the first mass production BEVs and Tesla's build quality is not what I would call good, certainly not up to Toyota standards. He still likes the car but he did spend $95,000 for it in 2015.

This is how BEV sales are currently going here in UK/EU.
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2025-march-q1-europe-best-selling-electric-car-models-and-brands/
Tesla are losing market share like crazy. Some of it because of their dated model range and some because of the association with Musk.
Nissan are also not doing great because of their financial situation.

[maxtog]

Lexus LS500h and it's a VERY nice car but I can't stand the looks of the models with the gawping Basking Shark mouth grille.

THANK YOU.  I also find them to be absolutely hideous.  Everyone I know seems to think Toyota's grills are just horrible, and yet they persist with this yucky design year after year.  Honda went stupid with their hyper-angular crap, especially on the Acuras, but they heard the feedback and, year after year, cut back on it.

Nissan are also not doing great because of their financial situation.

Yeah, I hope things don't get worse for them and they dig themselves out.  Other than the issues with their CVT's, they make great vehicles.  Priced well, reliable, and very attractive.  They are very popular around here.

[Strawboss]

 OK, well, good luck, from the amount you say you drive, the tranny and battery replacement won't be an issue for quite some time. Many don't keep their cars longer than 5 years or so, so it's a moot point for you.

[maxtog]

OK, well, good luck, from the amount you say you drive, the tranny and battery replacement won't be an issue for quite some time.

Well, there really isn't what most people would think of as a transmission in it, just a single-speed gear reduction differential, and that is extremely unlikely to malfunction.  But yeah, with the low mileage I drive, I shouldn't put any real dent in the battery life, even after a decade or more (assuming I have it that long).  Not that there aren't lots of other things that could malfunction- HVAC, computers, inverters, cameras, sensors, etc.  One of the dangerous aspects of getting a higher-tech model, with highest trim, lots of stuff to break.

Many don't keep their cars longer than 5 years or so, so it's a moot point for you.

Yeah, I think it odd that so many people would want to have a car payment and high insurance and high taxes "forever".  I would rather spend the money on other things, and also save for later   My average car retention looks to be about 10.5 years.  Only had three motorcycles, first was a 250 starter and that was 2 years, then the ZRX for 11 years, and now the Concours is already 14.

[Boomer]

Guys I work with are paying $700 per month for their car (Lease or PCP Finance), just so they can have a new car every 3 years,.... but they own nothing. So, they are paying $25,000 over the 3 years before they change to a new car. Yes, they get a new car every 3 years, but what for?

I paid $6,000 for my 2004 91k mile LS430 in Jan 2018 and so far it has cost me $4,000 in repairs and service costs over 55k miles and 7.5 years but has never let me down. Even if I factor in the $6,000 I am about to spend on it that's $16,000, or a QUARTER of what they have paid out over the same period. Not only that, but my car is still worth $6,000 on the used car market, so I have only spent $10,000 over the 7.5 years, so I have actually paid less than a SIXTH of what they have.

I see buying new cars as the 2nd most efficient way to waste money on the planet, right after gambling.

My C14 was bought new in 2007 and I bought a new RD50 in 1979 and a new Z1300/6 in 1984 (working bike for courier work) but otherwise I have never bought a new vehicle.
I sold the RD50 at a loss, the Z1300 paid for itself in about 4 months of work and after 18 months & 170,000kms I sold it to a friend who ran it to 360,000kms over the next 15 years before the engine ate itself,... and I still have the C14.

As for the "battery replacement" issue, this is way less common than engine replacements in ICE cars and about as expensive. Most batteries with faults can now be repaired and there are specialists out there who will replace individual cells in a battery as needed as well as fix problems with the electronics associated with them.

Service costs on BEVs are WAY less than ICE cars, fuel costs are variable but assuming you charge at home every night you can expect to pay less than a quarter of what you would pay for an equivalent ICE, but tyre life is slightly worse, probably due to increased weight.

Apart from the range issue and the nagware/driver aids I would love to have a decent sized BEV. They drive just as nicely as my LS430 and cost way less to run.
However, it's not going to happen any time soon as they are all too new and too expensive.

[maxtog]

I see buying new cars as the 2nd most efficient way to waste money on the planet, right after gambling.

Well, someone has to buy new (cringe: or lease new) , or there will be no used ones

Two of my cars were used, and three new.  I prefer new because they are "perfect" and will be properly broken-in, paint sealed, garage-kept, use synthetic oil, cared-for well, and have the low mileage I will place on them.  But- I keep them for a long time, and I buy, I don't lease (leasing typically only benefits the dealer, which is why they push them so hard on people).  So in the long-term, I make out fine.  That said, nothing wrong with going after a used deal, if you can.

[Boomer]

Nothing wrong with buying new if you keep the vehicle for a long time. That way the depreciation is spread over many years so is less painful.
Enjoy the instant torque 

[maxtog]

Enjoy the instant torque 

No question that has been very nice.  Such a strange sensation of instant, quiet, smooth power.  If only it were one or two thousand pounds lighter