Kawasaki Concours Forum
Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: kdm on January 03, 2012, 05:59:19 PM
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Just throwing this out there--lots of experienc on this forum!
Got my son a Ninja 650r for a first bike ,and its a nice little ride. Thing is , it is kind of small ,and while it has pretty good wind protection ,all day comfort it don't . Caught him sitting on my C14 a couple times ,making vroom vroom noises (just kidding-he's not THAT much like his dad ) and think he may be thinking of trading up.
Heres my question- what would make a good mid-sized sport touring bike -you know ,full fairing , smooth ,good power,a liitle more weight and mass than the Ninja to soak up the bumps, provide a little better ride ?
Just thinkin...
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Honda Silverwing 500 or 650 (older), Honda Deauville 700 (expensive), SV650 except it has no shaft drive or stock bags.
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Honestly? A Honda ST1300. I can't believe I just said that.
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A VFR would be a great next step up for him. That's what I used for sport touring right before I got my Connie, a great bike for single one up sport touring, not so much IMO for 2up sport touring though... A little too soft in the suspension for having bags loaded up with stuff and mama on the back.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/vfr4.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/vfr3.jpg)
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A VFR would be a great next step up for him. That's what I used for sport touring right before I got my Connie, a great bike for single one up sport touring, not so much IMO for 2up sport touring though... A little too soft in the suspension for having bags loaded up with stuff and mama on the back.
+1.... get one with bags and it will fit the bill nicely. Also the Triumph sprint ST is a very nice sporty ride that comes with bags.. the only thing is I don't know about it's long range comfort.
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I agree with the vfr. I have an sv 650 and it is an incredible bike. But its no sport tourer unless touring is 50 miles, or less. Now, people have gone across the usa, and back, on them, but its doign it the hard way.
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Yeah , I really kind of like the ST1300 ,rode one for a few days-that would have been my second choice if I hadn't found the C14 ! Might be a little heavy for him,though at 700+ pounds . He's 5'10 ,160. It does have that cool adjustable seat.
Forgot all about the VFR! That might be the one. I like the way you set yours up.Is that a Givi screen? How does it
do on the highway as far as wind buffeting ? And what would you look for in a used one ? Any known problems to watch out for??
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Forgot all about the VFR! That might be the one. I like the way you set yours up.Is that a Givi screen? How does it
do on the highway as far as wind buffeting ? And what would you look for in a used one ? Any known problems to watch out for??
Well I don't have the VFR anymore, sold it when I bought my Connie. The shield if I remember right was from Puig, I'm not 100% sure though, it's been a couple years, maybe it was Givi now that I try to find that brain cell... :-\
The 02+ VFR800's are pretty solid and reliable bikes, mine was an 06 that I bought with 600 miles on it, had it for a couple years and never had any mechanical problems. I think there was some small mechanical change/improvement Honda did in 04 but I don't remember now. You should check out http://vfrworld.com/forums/content.php (http://vfrworld.com/forums/content.php) there's ton of great info and folks on there, I was active on it while I had mine.
Happy hunting, I think he'd like it and I see nice clean examples go for $5k often.
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+1.... get one with bags and it will fit the bill nicely. Also the Triumph sprint ST is a very nice sporty ride that comes with bags.. the only thing is I don't know about it's long range comfort.
My buddy has a Sprint and goes everywhere. He did 18K kilometers last summer two up. He is English though.....
About 200 lbs. less than the Connie.
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It seems to me that when you define "mid-size sport tourer" clearly in your mind, you should be able to pick out a bike pretty easily, or will decide that you have to build/farkle one of your own.
Is mid-size a displacement, weight, length, horsepower or other spec? What combination means mid-sized to you?
What is a full fairing? Is it defined by the amount and cost of plastic or by the amount and placement of wind protection?
What is smooth? What is power?
How much are you willing to spend? How old or new is acceptable?
Are you looking for a "class" of bike, or to you have a purpose or plan in mind of what you want to accomplish and are looking for a bike that fits?
An last but not least, is your son looking for a new bike, or are you trying to fit him into what you want for him?
It just sounds to me that "something different" is what you want. In my mind, the Ninja 650 is a mid-size ST. Add some hard or soft luggage, or both. Windshield, seat and bars to suit, and off you go. Same with SV650/S. If a 650 is a "small, beginner bike" to you, and a C14 is full-size, then I guess the C10 is a mid-size ST.
Without knowing any more of the facts, my guess is that a few adjustments to the Ninja (seat, bars, windshield, and better tires), and some more rider training would be worth considering as an alternative to swapping bikes.
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If you don't need to be shopping for NEW bikes, than most of the UJM bikes work well for kids going farther and faster than 'starter' bikes.
Maybe the older Bandit 1200, KZ1000, or CB1000 type of go anywhere, do anything (not dirt) bikes for cheap. JMHO
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I thought my C-14 was a good, mid size tourer
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How old is your son?
A VFR sounds like a good answer to me. Plus he (being younger) will like the sportiness...
Ride safe, Ted
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Honda makes a 700 something that has bags. seems that would be worth looking into
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I worry about the lightning fast transition into high HP/torque bike that are now commonplace today...not knocking but are you "really" comfortable with his skill-set as it is now. I know I would have had issues had I not gone thru the transitions from enduro to 1st power bike -with many in ....between.
Many of the suggested are movers.
Mike
A RT beemer may be a great teacher for a big bike though.
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Mike-
Never ridden the previous generation RT -interesting idea . Current gen would be way too costly .
What years would recommend ? Also , any reliabilty issues to look for ? Also ,how do they carry their weight ? Do they have a lower center of gravity due to the boxer design ?
Thanks for the tip.
Keith
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heres an idea
drop the foot pegs
get the tallest windshield you can find add one of those foils or what ever they are called
1 inch up and 1 inch back bar risers, maybe new bars
get a set of nelson rigs bags
add 1/2 inch of foam to the seat
add 1 tooth on the front
$500 bucks or less , shop ebay and craigs list, and there ya go
and then you can all ways go back
was it cycle worls that took a big ninja and made it a sport tour bike
I cannt remember I'm getting too old
good luck
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I've had my rf900 for 10 years now and it was my main source of transportation for awhile. It is a mid sized sport tourer. While I don't often ride with a passenger when I did on the rf they found it comfortable(after I switched to the Corbin seat :)). Didn't come with and bags but I got some softbags that work well enough for the weekend to week long trips I took. Got a taller screen and was all set.
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The RF9 is an underappreciated gem. I'm in the process of reworking the stock seat, but the Corbin is alternate plan B if my mods don't work out. Have you found any even semi-active forums for the RF?
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The RF9 is an underappreciated gem. I'm in the process of reworking the stock seat, but the Corbin is alternate plan B if my mods don't work out. Have you found any even semi-active forums for the RF?
The only group I've found was a Yahoo group. And it's not too active but has a wealth of info.
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I'm a big fan of the vfr. Only reason I'm not on one now is the chain drive - I'm super lazy. Turns out the connie was better for the riding I do now, but that doesn't mean I can't look at them and sigh.
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Thanks for all the input - some really good ideas there. Yeah ,he really is getting the trade-up bug . He likes the look of the yammy FZ8 , but that's way out of his price range . Plus he rode his moms Shadow without the windshield mounted and now appreciates the value of a little wind blockage. ;D
Had a thought - Kawi Z750 S. Low mileage examples out there for $3500 + .. Has a quarter faring ,with lowers available from the aftermarket.
Water cooled inline 4, six speed w/overdrive gearing, middling weight , gas guage, and got good reviews at the time.
Anybody ever ride one of these for any distance ? Would love to hear opinions from the real world.
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Compares to the GPZ750: on a short list I would like. Vanilla, but good vanilla. I could ride my GPZ as long as I needed too, and sometimes that was 10 hour rides. Better bars than the GPz.
Have I mentioned how much I liked the WeeStrom that I rode better than anything ever? FI, aftermarket galore, and run with the rockets in the curves.
And I could do light offroad trips to boot!
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What about a used FZ1? I sold my '07 with all the bolt on goodies for $5k over a year ago. And the first Gen ones are a great value. I see clean ones listed all the time on CL for $2500-$3500. They are comfy half-naked but a decent size windshield. Slightly de-tuned R1 engine.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/gearhead82_bucket/Me_FZ1.jpg)
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What about a used FZ1? I sold my '07 with all the bolt on goodies for $5k over a year ago. And the first Gen ones are a great value. I see clean ones listed all the time on CL for $2500-$3500. They are comfy half-naked but a decent size windshield. Slightly de-tuned R1 engine.
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/gearhead82_bucket/Me_FZ1.jpg)
The Gen 1 FZ1 is very cool-- but from what I read it's hard to find a shield that will minimize the wind buffeting . Something about the fairing being set too far from the rider.
Was this ever an issue with you ?
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The Gen 1 FZ1 is very cool-- but from what I read it's hard to find a shield that will minimize the wind buffeting . Something about the fairing being set too far from the rider.
Was this ever an issue with you ?
Mine was a Gen 2 so I can't comment on the Gen 1. I had very little buffeting once I installed that shield (Zero Gravity I think). Most of the buffeting comes from those mirrors sticking way up there in the windstream. Not much wind protection for the legs but they do sell a lower fairing kit which would probably help.
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As I understand it there are things that can be done to make the Ninja 650r a more comfortable sport tourer. There is at least one thread about that on sport touring .net.
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A Triumph Sprint ST might be a good option. From what I've read they have an awesome torque curve but will still rev pretty happily. They're about 200 punds lighter than a Connie with a little more power. I've been looking at them myself. A Ninja 1000 or a Suzuki SV1000S look like fun rides too.
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A Triumph Sprint ST might be a good option. From what I've read they have an awesome torque curve but will still rev pretty happily. They're about 200 punds lighter than a Connie with a little more power. I've been looking at them myself. A Ninja 1000 or a Suzuki SV1000S look like fun rides too.
Maybe more power than a C10. Nowhere close to a C14.
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Reviving this old thread for an update. ;D
Fate intervened in the decision to upgrade - the Ninja was run over by a 4x4 ! Seriously !
A girl he works with jumped in her truck to go home from work on a rainy night and BAM -no more ninja.
Luckily she had insurance (geico) and they totalled it and gave him a fat check.
So, after much looking and test riding , he bought an.....ST1100 honda !
Much surprise here -thought he would rather a more sporty ride ,but he loves it . It hasn't sat still long enough
for me to sneak a ride yet , so can't report on the performance -but don't worry =i will.
Rode one years ago and sort of remember liking it. ;)
So, Son of Pappy ,we almost took your advice-just went for the original.
Will post pics whenever I can get him to hold still long enough.
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/fd505517_holy20thread20resurrection.jpg)
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Just throwing this out there--lots of experienc on this forum!
Got my son a Ninja 650r for a first bike ,and its a nice little ride. Thing is , it is kind of small ,and while it has pretty good wind protection ,all day comfort it don't . Caught him sitting on my C14 a couple times ,making vroom vroom noises (just kidding-he's not THAT much like his dad ) and think he may be thinking of trading up.
Heres my question- what would make a good mid-sized sport touring bike -you know, full fairing , smooth, good power, a liitle more weight and mass than the Ninja to soak up the bumps, provide a little better ride ?
Just thinkin...
(Got my son a Ninja 650r for a first bike ,and its a nice little ride)
Geez, things have changed sine i started.
My first bike was a Honda 90, and I bought it myself after working for 2 summers to get the $$
Not going there though. I bought my son his first bike too. (guilty)
I read thru this discussion again.
He asked for a bike with "full fairing , smooth, good power, a liitle more weight and mass than the Ninja to soak up the bumps, provide a little better ride"
I think all of you forgot the most obvious choice. (for him (and other Newbies) to ride before moving to something like a C-14)...
(Hint: Most of us rode one)
Get him a C-10!
Let him learn to love it like we did.
Let "him" learn; how to handle the heavier bike, do the maintenance, select and install the mods, the responsibility of taking care of it.
Then,,,,, (and only then) let "him" BUY his own C-14.
Ride safe, Ted
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Reviving this old thread for an update. ;D
Fate intervened in the decision to upgrade - the Ninja was run over by a 4x4 ! Seriously !
A girl he works with jumped in her truck to go home from work on a rainy night and BAM -no more ninja.
Luckily she had insurance (geico) and they totalled it and gave him a fat check.
So, after much looking and test riding , he bought an.....ST1100 honda !
Much surprise here -thought he would rather a more sporty ride ,but he loves it . It hasn't sat still long enough
for me to sneak a ride yet , so can't report on the performance -but don't worry =i will.
Rode one years ago and sort of remember liking it. ;)
So, Son of Pappy ,we almost took your advice-just went for the original.
Will post pics whenever I can get him to hold still long enough.
Good deal! Sounds like one of those things, like "If the shoe fits". Most of us joke about differant brands (well, 'cept that Harley brand ;)) but it really is about being on the road out grippin and grinnin ;D Congrats to your son, now get out there and ride :)