Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: Jet86 on February 17, 2014, 04:00:44 PM
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Do i really need a carb stand to set float level?.
What is the best tool to cut off my air boots, they are like steel & I dont have a heat-gun nor a place to plug it in.
You no i have been riding this bike more then 5 years - year round and i think i owe it to myself to at least try and rebuild the carbs myself, Yes i really would like to send them to Steve and i think his price is well worth the top notch work he does, however the carbs need work real soon and i dont have time to save the money, I might have to send them anyway at a later time but with all the help i have gotten from this forum over the years i think i have a good chance at fixing the carbs and i do have the service book plus a pdf version.
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Do i really need a carb stand to set float level?.
No you don't. See my reply on your previous topic http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16486.15 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16486.15) reply 16.
Regards, Russell
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This is what i have now.
1. Carb rebuild kit from Murph
2. Air boots + springs
3. Throttle cables
4. Pilot Jets from Murph
5. Fuel Rail O-ring Kit from Murph
6. Steve's Jet Kit is on the way
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Anything else?
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Great, i was watching this clip on setting float level, i know its not the same carb but in general i assume thats one way to do it.
How to adjust the Float Height on a Carburetor Metric Harley and Asian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj220oY26Yo#ws)
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Yep, video is good.
You have to do this 4 times. I would not recommend dismantling them into 4 individual carbs unless there are fuel leaks between the carbs, keep them together as an assembly of 4.
You do not need a special gauge like in the video, a cheap depth guage (or vernier with depth gauge) will do just as well.
Be sure to replace the float bowls O ring gasket with new ones, I didn't and they later leaked. You don't want to have to remove the carbs from the bike again.
I don't think you need anything else besides what you already have. Fuel rail O rings only if fully dismantled into 4 separate carbs, pilot jets shouldn't need to be replaced, pilot air screw seals are in Murphs kits. I can't speak for Steve's 2 minute kit as we don't have the 2K stumble her in Australia.
Regards, Russell
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Ounce i have the carbs off i can a better look at all the small parts but since the fuel rail parts is only $12.50 i'm going to get them just in case.
the pilot jets are hard to get clean from what i hear, what happens when they are plugged up? does the bike idle rough or hard to start?
if sitting for more than 24 hours my bike has always needed the enricher on to start but only for about 30-45 seconds, it seems to idle good but sometimes i hear one of the carbs coughing, not sure witch carb but i think the pilot jet may be to blame.
since this is my first time ever working on these carbs i think replacing the pilot jets would be easyer on me rather then try to clean them, what do you think? how hard are they to clean, i dont have a lot of tools or sonic bath.
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I disagree with the video within the first 3 minutes. I don't care that his shirt says "instructor", setting fuel level simply by setting float height is an accident waiting to happen. I have seen lots of non - normal issues that are not addressed by setting float height alone. Some of them are twisted floats (common), perforated floats, seats that seep, etc. You would be shocked at how often checking fuel level has saved me from having comebacks, even after the floats were properly set. JMO, steve
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I'm going to remove the air box to and clean it and look for cracks so can i just stick the carbs back on the bike to do the clear tube check? without the air box in the way i guess it will be easyer.
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You can use a hack-saw blade held by hand and cut them off. You could also use a BIG screw driver and pry them off. You may find it easier to pry the carbs out them get the boots off. The plastic boots are usually somewhat pliable still inside the airbox. So far on the carbs on this bike, I've only ever needed new bowl gaskets and float needles (the spring weakens a ridge can develop on the rubber seat). Oh yeah, and those little washers and o-rings on the mixture screw that comes in from the bottom. The PO lost half of them on the red bike.
Here's my mad scientist set-up...
P.S. - I think trying to do a "set" of the level and not a "check" is going to be a big hassle performing on the bike. You will probably need to take each bowl off a few times to get it exact, which means pulling the carbs over and over. Only do one at a time then consider it complete. I think you are also asking for a potential hydrolock issue, not realizing you might be sending fuel down the intake while checking them. Before you install the carbs for the final time, install the cables and fuel line to the carbs. Way easier than trying to hook them up after they are in place.
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BTW, on the fuel rail orings - you need to do those, but it's not easily done. they are what, 28 years old, and could well be where the leak is coming from. When they leak / seep, the fuel runs off the bowls so it seems like a bowl leak, but it's not. I'm at a point that when guys send me carbs from about 97 to 98 back, I suggest oring replacement as a matter of course. Early on, I didn't have this opinion, but when you rebuild old carbs and then they start leaking a couple months later, folks don't have much of a sense of humor about that >:( . The real problem with doing that job is you're going to need an impact driver to loosen the rail screws. If you can't impact them to get the loose, you'll strip the heads.
Also, on prying the carbs out, be careful there - I've seen a couple sets that were pried on, and the carb bodies were busted at the inlet where the tool was levered.
Let me add on more point - some folks might read what I'm posting and think "yeah, he's just trying to get work". others might read it and see I'm putting valuable info in my posts. Let me respond this way - If I can do carbs, anyone can - but I probably did 50 sets or more before I hung out my shingle, and since then I've seen some stuff I couldn't have even imagined, and it was all created by guys trying to "save money". At this point I've done over 400 sets, and my takeaway is that not all of us see things or understand things the same, so when one guy says "it's easy" well, it may have been for him, but for the next guy, not so much. Steve
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RFH87 thats good info for me to think about how i am going about things, i dont want fuel to get in the cylinders so setting levels while on the bike is not gonna happen, I need to find another way.
Steve i believe you and the thought did run across my mind that you just want to make money but that was a long time ago and i don't think that anymore, but saying what you did is a good idea for the new guys like i was when i found this forum.
the impact driver is just a big kind of heavy screw driver that turns as you hammer it' am i correct?
I think i have one of them and if not i can get one at harbor freight.
I need to put in another order to murph but it will have to wait about 10 days til i get more money' in the mean time i can keep planning on how i can pull this off.
My bike is still running ok right now and i do have about 50 bucks for tools or what ever.
i think im gonna have to build a carb holder of some kind, or hang them with wire like RFH8, i seen some where on this forum one made of plastic pvc pipe.
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instead of building a holder for the carbs, either use a bench vise or do as you suggested and pull the airbox and use your bike. I like that idea because with the airbox out you can clean and inspect alot of stuff you can't get to otherwise. Steve
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To check fuel level off the bike get a cheap bench vise and a long length of fuel line, set the carbs in the vise on the floor and run the fuel line from your tank to the carbs.
The video does address twisted floats and that's why you check the height on both sides of the float. If you need to adjust the tang that operates the float needle bend the tang from the front and not the sides.
Starting your bike sounds normal and if it idles and runs well down low then I don't think the pilot jets are blocked. To clean them push a bristle from a coarse paint brush or engine cleaning brush through the jet. I don't advise pushing a wire through as you may damage the jet.
Regards, Russell
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I don't advise pushing a wire through as you may damage the jet.
I lot of us have used monofilament fishing line when necessary. Or guitar strings....
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I used a couple short pieces of 2x4 screwd together in a upside down t. I then screwed a vice grip tp the upright and clamped tothe carb rack. Shimmed a little till level and hooked er up to fuel.
Wayne
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I have had my carbs out several times for cleaning because I wasn't sure I had them right. I was close but never right on the money. It's been a few yrs and I think this spring I will send them to Steve's spa and get them set right. I think after having the bike for 20 years it's time.
This post has convinced it's time for me to get'em done RIGHT!!
Hope it get's above freezing so I can pull the cover off my bike. ;D
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Good info here, if i don't get new pilots i was thinking about using wire to push threw the pilots, glad you guys told me about safer ways' and i have good news.
I have a friend that has a big yard and said i could work on my bike there if i want and even spend the night if i cant get it done in one day, that opens the door to a easier work environment, he dont no anything about bikes but still could be a third hand if need be so he is willing to help however he can. he has offered the work space befor but he had no transportation at all and i was worried that once i have the bike apart i may need a ride to go get tools or odd ball parts but now he has a car so things are looking better but i to still want to send my carbs to the sunny state but for now i have to stop the gas leak and get a new throttle cable on there.
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Just updating things i have from my post #3 and things that are on the way.
I think everything i need and other stuff i have ordered will be here by friday.
Do i really need a float fuel level gauge if i use the clear tube method ?
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Set the float level before you put the bowls back on to do the clear tube measurement.
Look at this post. Pretty exotic but looks good.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13483.15 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13483.15)
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can anyone post a link where i can buy the Carburetor float level gauge, i dont want to wait another week on shipping and have not seen it on harbor freight.
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can anyone post a link where i can buy the Carburetor float level gauge, i dont want to wait another week on shipping and have not seen it on harbor freight.
Harbor Freight?
bwaaa haaaaa
just make one out of heavy cardboard with a razor knife...
it's just a reference tool, "C" shaped cutout to fit, 17mm deep.
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or use an old credit card, make a cut out like that by carefully scribing a cut line before you cut
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ok ill make the guage but how bout a vise, is this one ok.?
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-inch-table-swivel-vise-97160.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-inch-table-swivel-vise-97160.html)
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That's a small vise. If you are only going to get one, I would look for something in the 4" range at least. A larger one would give you the ability to perhaps press something together or apart, or at least be a good surface to pound on something. Assuming you don't have a workbench, you could mount the vise (with nuts and bolts) to a piece of sturdy wood, then clamp it down to whatever surface you can with a large C-clamp or two. I have one of these that I take to my rental properties when I need to work on them. Place thin cardboard or felt under it if you are worried about scratching the table you hook it to. You could even get fancy and use a mouse pad. If the table you are clamping to is not hardwood, I would use an oak shim under the clamp foot of the C-clamp so it won't damage anything (that much).
Or, you could get two and do this...
P.S. - Wooden paint stir sticks make great vise jaw and clamp shims. They're just about the perfect size when cut to length.
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That's a small vise. If you are only going to get one, I would look for something in the 4" range at least. A larger one would give you the ability to perhaps press something together or apart, or at least be a good surface to pound on something. Assuming you don't have a workbench, you could mount the vise (with nuts and bolts) to a piece of sturdy wood, then clamp it down to whatever surface you can with a large C-clamp or two. I have one of these that I take to my rental properties when I need to work on them. Place thin cardboard or felt under it if you are worried about scratching the table you hook it to. You could even get fancy and use a mouse pad. If the table you are clamping to is not hardwood, I would use an oak shim under the clamp foot of the C-clamp so it won't damage anything (that much).
Or, you could get two and do this...
P.S. - Wooden paint stir sticks make great vise jaw and clamp shims. They're just about the perfect size when cut to length.
That looks ok to clamp one carb but I think I would use the BIG vise for the whole rack of carbs. Secure'em real tight so's they don't drop on the floor!!!! Also remember-- don't force it! Get a BIGGER HAMMER. ::)
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Also remember-- don't force it! Get a BIGGER HAMMER.
You mean a Smacker like Steve has in his video lol ;D
Seriously I spent alot on parts already and don't have much more then 20 bucks to spend on tools or parts this time around and may have to wait a few more weeks if i really need a good vise.
I was also looking at that $39 4' vise but its its outta my price rang right now.
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You don't need a vise at all. Just a couple of cheap woodworking clamps will do the trick, along with something stable to clamp to.
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You really don't even need to clamp them. All that has to happen is to have the rack level. A couple of pieces of wood blocks, etc., will do. You just need the cabs high enough off our table so you can loop the clear plastic tube under and up alongside them.
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Ok that's good news, i kept wondering why i really need a vise.
float level needs to be 17mm correct ??
i start working on it this Saturday.
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Ok that's good news, i kept wondering why i really need a vise.
Go back and look at my bench pic on the first page of the thread. I just use wire to support them when doing the float levels. If you are using the impact driver to separate them, you could get a dense piece of outdoor carpet as your hammer surface (cheap from Lowes). One linear foot would probably be enough, sometimes you can find the carpet squares too. Just lay it on the ground with decent support (wood scraps) so you don't break or crack anything.
I've lived in apartments before too. I've done all kinds of repairs, the worst thing is picking up each day and hiding stuff until you finish the job. All without pissing off the neighbors.
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Yeah i seen your pic and thats probably how i will do it, my friend has a cement slab with old carpet already on it and he has a bunch of wood and plastic tables benches so im good there, he also has a lot of junk around the yard so i'm sure i can put it to use.
yup apartments suck for trying to work on anything, i can do an oil or brake pad change no problem but other then that there has been times when i had to put my bike back together without bolting anything up and just try to finish next morning befor anyone gets up.
I want to Thank everyone for your input helping on this job.
my friend has internet so i hope you guys are watching the forum tomorrow if i run into trouble i will post up. thanks
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Bike is running & back on the road although i did not complete everything i wanted to, I got the carb kit in and new idle jets but had trouble getting the old mains out and was afraid i was gonna strip/break something so i did not force the issue.
Steve's 2 Minute Mod Jet Kit will be shipped back to him along with my carbs if i ever win the lotto lol, i wanted the over flow tubes put in anyway.
Fuel level is still not right and the bike is running about the same, My main goal was to stop the gas leak and i did that by replacing the float bowl O-rings, honestly i got tired of messing with it and could have done a better job but i was still lacking in a comfort working area and the proper tools but im still glad i had a shot at it.
here is a pic of the carbs off the bike befor i started cleaning and can anyone tell me why the #4 carb butterfly is black with what looks like carbon and the others look clean? low fuel?
dang i did the clear tube check on #1 - #4 befor i took the carbs off but already forgot the readings, i just remember both was off, one was to low and other was to high so i guess 4 was the low one.
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Congrats, I know it was scary, but you've learned about your bike and that's a good thing.
#4 is black because the intake valve has a reasonably bad sealing issue. It is either is being held off the the seat from lack of adjustment clearance, or valve tuliping. your bike will never run well without that issue being resolved. Steve
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So that's probably why the #4 carb will cough randomly while idle and just off idle ever 5-10- or 15 seconds, it's been doing that for a long time now and maybe i missed the proper setting on my last valve adjustment.
this is what i wrote down in my last adjustment.
"Jun 3rd 2011 Adjusted Valves - set them to (Intake .007 Exhaust .009) 67,700 miles. bike miles now 81,400
found 2 valves tight, #3cyl intake, #1cyl intake. all others haven't moved.
everything looks good".
despite what i wrote down i still could have made an adjustment mistake or like you say something else going on.
looks like a valve check is in the near future.