New to me 1999 Concours, getting it to run....

[GearLoose]

Greetings all.  After 25 years of not riding, I decided to return to riding.  I bought a new 2007 Suzuki C50 cruiser, but really missed the upright posture that was on the bikes that I learned on, like the Yamaha XS 650 that I bought new in 1974.  I decided to go back to what I think is a more comfortable posture, and get some touring capability too, so I bought myself a 1999 Connie! Now begins my saga...
I have been reading a lot of the posts, and it looks like there is a ton of information on this site, if you're sharp enough to absorb it all.  Before I retired, I rebuilt steam turbines, pumps and built conveyors, but I have to admit, this Connie has me a bit worried.
I found a nice used 2000 with 15,000 miles on it, and my son wanted it, so being the good Dad, away it went.  He rides it to work, and loves it, no problems at all.  I liked it so much that I went  looking around for another one for me and found a 1999 in  my price range, area and 7700 miles!.  I test rode it,  made the deal, put it on my pickup, and brought it home.  It sat a week before I could find a place to get it unloaded, and when I started it, I noticed that it flooded a bit, something that I did not notice before!  I rode it the five miles to my house and it ran great!  But, when I pulled into the driveway and shut it down, (actually, it stalled out), I saw gas dripping out of the air box!  I pulled the tank, and came into check the computer, and found that I needed a new petcock kit, which I did install.  I figured that I had a problem in a carb, but hoped that it would clear itself, wishful thinking I guess.  I also added a Napa 3006 filter, since the filter on the original petcock was gone!  It had a small filter in the line between petcock and carbs, but I went with the bigger one.
I let it sit for four months through the winter without draining the carbs, probably another big mistake!  I pulled the plugs and the cylinders were not wet.  I smelled the oil, and it had no gas odor either.  I started it yesterday, and was really frustrated, my Connie runs with the choke on, then slowly with the choke off after it warms a couple of minutes, and has no pickup, like it is running out of fuel, but I'm guessing.  I did find by reading on here, that the red and black lines on the back of the tank were reversed, but haven't tried starting it again yet.  It is a California model.
It starts, but runs very poorly, and I noticed that when I started it twice yesterday, twice, it kicked back on start. 
I hate to not be able to fix something, and don't have any real faith in dealers, car, bike, or otherwise.   My concern is, that I'll  make it worse, so I'll probably ask a lot of questions.  Getting the carbs out, looks to be a real bear, and fighting with those old rubber fittings looks like it'll be tough too.  I guess I need some encouragement, or advice as to which direction that I should take with this bike, I will appreciate any input that I can get.
Thanks for listening Guys

[Boomer343]

Gearloose welcome to this part of the net. Since you have some tech background...just a little I'd say....you might start by reading and doing the hydrolock test that is on a Sticky at the top of this forum section.

Good to be able to rule that out or if it has been locked then you won't be wasting time doing other tests.

From their it sounds like you will be pulling the carbs and to start that get a cup of your favorite beverage, a comfortable chair and start reading....I'll give you a hint though....you can trust Steve In Sunny Florida and his advice.

Dennis

[GearLoose]

Thanks Boomer 343, I'm bookmarking, and taking notes!  And..... I've got that favorite beverage cooled and handy!

[Rick Hall]

Fuel leaking out of the airbox is NOT a good sign, get the petcock fixed pronto. Read up on hydrolock. Then work on the carbs as you see fit, it appears they need a little massaging.

You may find a hefty dose of Seafoam (et al) in a gallon of fuel may get things more/less in proper order. Run the bike for a few minutes to get the goop into the carbs, shut down, wait. Next day add unalderated fuel to the tank, run the bike to flush the concentrated stuff out of the carbs, try a ride around the block.

If you do pull the carbs off, do get new rubber boots. The boots from the aft end of the carbs to the airbox, all four. They get hard as a rock after a few years, new/soft boots make the job much easier.

Removal of the carbs is kind of a brute force affair, and you need long pointy tools (and patience ) to get the cables re-installed, and the spring retainer thingies (tm) back on the rubber boots that seal to the carb inlets.

Rick

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

   Several issues there -first, the carbs need to be cleaned / rebuilt. missing the stock screen on the petcock is bad (if that's what I understood). While others run inline filters with varying results, I see them as a problem; the factory in-tank filter is all you really need. Rick's correct on pulling the carbs, it is a brute force kinda deal... Steve

[cmoore]

Hi Gearloose, welcome to Connie world. A '99 with only 7700 miles on it is begging for a carb cleaning.  My money says once those carbs get cleaned up you are going to have a nice bike. Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going.

[GearLoose]

I've decided to go ahead and "Do the Deed", pull those carbs and get the bike right.  The bike's PO was in the USN, and it spent quite a bit of time unattended and unridden evidently.  The carbs were supposed to have been rebuilt by a bike shop before I bought it, but I have my doubts about the kind of job that was done at this point!  The "New" air filter in it........wasn't!  I was worried that I had done something stupid somewhere, but all I've really done is add a gas line filter, replace the plugs when I checked for hydrolock, and rebuild the petcock....oh, and reroute the red and center lines on the back of the tank, they were reversed, it had the red in the center!  I guess when I really gave it a good run, something in the carbs that wasn't right, became really "not right"!  I've already found sources for new rubber boots, just need to quit feeling like I made a big mistake.................. and Fix It!  Thanks for the responses, I do appreciate them.

[GearLoose]

   Several issues there -first, the carbs need to be cleaned / rebuilt. missing the stock screen on the petcock is bad (if that's what I understood). While others run inline filters with varying results, I see them as a problem; the factory in-tank filter is all you really need. Rick's correct on pulling the carbs, it is a brute force kinda deal... Steve

I didn't know that I could get a new petcock screen.  If I can, then that'll get replaced and the inline will go away!

[Rick Hall]

I didn't know that I could get a new petcock screen. ...

I don't think you can, but it is removable for cleaning. Be gentle, it's a very snug press fit into a cavity of the petcock.

Some owners install an inline fuel filter, use caution. The fuel flow is gravity, and it's a real small drop in head. Read: any restrictions, no matter how minor, will reduce fuel flow. The first symptoms of reduced fuel flow would be cutting out or bogging down at WFO. Aggravated if you're on your last gallon or two in the tank.

The stock 'sock' on the petcock is adequate.

Rick

[mdr]

I like my inline filter.  Just looked at it this morning while blowing out idle passages and there are some flakes in it (not from the fuel line - it's the poly stuff from Murph not rubber).  May be from when I rebuilt the petcock, but I was pretty sure it was totally cleaned out <shrug>.

I don't have restriction problems, but you MUST be very careful with the fuel hose / tubing.  A little too long or too sharp a bend and it'll kink once the engine warms up a little.

I'm using one of the 5/16" 90 degree filters.  It's not a paper filter, but has a plastic mesh in it, similar to the one in the petcock, but it looks finer <?>.  The 90 goes down between the carbs.  I probably should put a 90 degree fitting between the petcock and filter too, but it's working 'ok' for now.  Small rust particles will still get past even a paper filter so you'll find crap in the bowls, especially #1 & 2.

And since I mentioned it but you didn't, replace the fuel line if you didn't.  Little rubber bits flaking off the inside of old fuel line really make a nasty carb cleaning experience

Lube the cables while you've got everything apart.  One of those clamp on cable lubers and a can of spray lube makes it an easy job.

I've you've got fuel coming out the air box, polish the float valve seats and use new needle valves.  Even if they look good, at least one of 'em is bad or you wouldn't have gas flowing out the air box.  Trust me on this one   Last I looked a couple years ago Murphs Kits has 'em, or go to Ron Ayers if you're getting other OEM parts Murph doesn't list.

If you want to check how the CA vacuum lines are routed, head over here. 
http://www.randols.net/Connie/CaliEmissions/HoseRouting.html

[GearLoose]

I'm getting lots of helpful  info here Folks, and I sure appreciate it.  Thank You!
 I got my Harbor Freight "Finger" yesterday, and tomorrow is D-day (deconstruction-day) for the Connie, she loses her carbs.  I'm looking forward to seeing the interior of those carbs.  The bike had a small plastic filter when I got the bike, but I noticed some crud on the carb side of the filter screen, so maybe it really was cleaned and rebuilt, but it still has an old rubber hose on it, so maybe I'll find some hose material in the carbs!  At any rate, new hose is coming up too! 
Oh, when I rerouted the hoses, I did it according to the same link that you provided Mark, Thanks.

[mdr]

Oh, when I rerouted the hoses, I did it according to the same link that you provided Mark, Thanks.

Givin' Connie the Finger... <discuss while I skulk away and watch>

Thank Guy Young too.  He was prez of COG at the time, I think.  Had been the Tech Director for quite awhile.  Someone asked him about it, he asked the forum since he had a 48 (49?) state bike at the time.  I had mine mostly apart anyway AND some new <free> software to play with.  A match made in Connie-dom

BTW, if you get the chance, take a look at some of the rest of my site (see the sig).  I'm not making anything from it.  I just like it getting used.

[Jet86]

MDR Thanks for the website and it will get used and abused. Bookmarked!

i was reading up a storm , good site. 

[GearLoose]

BTW, if you get the chance, take a look at some of the rest of my site (see the sig).  I'm not making anything from it.  I just like it getting used.

Oh, I've got that one Bookmarked already!   

[SmokinRZ]

Whenever I buy a new to me bike I take the tank off and drian all but a quart of the fuel.  I then remove the gas cap and stand in my driveway shaking the tank upside down between my legs in every direction until I can't hear any more liquid.  I'm always amazed at the amount of debris that comes out and clings to the painted surface of the tank.  I then add some more fuel and do it again until everything come out clean.  I'm afraid that one of these days I'm going to drop the tank and        Anyway its a good time to rebuild the petcock and clean the underside of the tank and protect all the painted surfaces with a good coat of wax. 

[Lodogg2221]

Kinda surprised no one mentioned it, but Steve in FLA does GREAT carb work.
Once yours are off, take all the other bits off (brackets, etc), box them up, send them to him, and have him go thru them and add the overflow tubes. 
Ive done a few carbs, and never had much trouble, but my 95s carbs gave me a bit of trouble I just couldnt resolve.  SiSF cleaned em up good, and they have been great since. 

Otherwise, on any new to me bike, I change oil, plugs, other fluids, and go through everything I can.
It makes sure I KNOW everything was done and when, and it gets me familiar with the bike. 

I had all sorts of small issues with mine when I got it, but they have all been cleared up. 
Matter of fact, going on a good ride here in about two hours, so Im off to check tire pressure and top it off with fuel....and clean the dead bugs off the windshield from the previous trip...lol.

[GearLoose]

You must have been reading my mind!  I'll get some basic education, and have it done 'right'!  SISF seems to have a lot of loyal followers, and I can't see any advantage in me trying to 'reinvent the wheel', so to speak....  So as soon as I see what I want to see, I'll see if SISF is interested in putting mine right! 

[davida]

If you do choose to clean the carb yourself, the float valves are leaky and your idle jet is clogged. 
Inspect the float needles, no pits on the rubber tip.  Carb cleaner will eat these!


Clean the seats till they shine with Brasso and qtips



BTW, Steve seems to know these carbs best and can put in overflow tubes, which can save you a big hydrolock headache. 

Get a paper filter to protect your work.  There is stuff in your tank that will clog that tiny idle jet.
I found if you heat the airbox boots with a hair dryer its way easier to get the carbs in and out.   

Pix from similar Keihins from my Honda.

[GearLoose]

Very Helpful photos!!!  They sure make things clearer!  Thank You.............!

[mdr]

Some different thoughts...

If the needle valves are suspect, just replace 'em.  You can't see hardened.  They're cheap compared to the headaches bad ones can cause.

Check your petcock for leaks.  Often.  No, more often than that.  Leaking petcock + leaking needles = $$$

Filters are a controversial thing.  Some swear by, some swear at.  They are tricky to install properly without adding an extra fitting or two.  Without them the hose can, and usually does kink, restricting fuel flow.  I've used paper filters, but that fine crud will still get through (I've checked, and it does!).  The paper also restricts the fuel flow.

I'm using a mesh element filter, similar in size and shape to the usually recommended NAPA filter.  It's a finer mesh than at the fuel tap, but it flows better than a paper filter.  I just pulled my carbs and the bowls had some rusty crud in 'em, but just the dusty stuff that flushed right out.  I see some little flaky junk in the tank side of the filter, so I know it's trapping some stuff.

A hair drier works great, but what works even better is new ones.   A set of four at a local dealer ran $77 with tax.  I think shipped from Murphs they're about $55.  If they're REALLY stiff, you won't really have a choice.  I've known of guys boiling them to soften 'em enough to install.    Supposedly vaseline will soften them too, but if they're that bad, just get new ones if you can.  If you can swing it, new ones will be easier to work with and seal better.