Fuel Economy assistance mode

[tomp]

Well, based on what most people think about it, you aren't missing much

4-6 MPG improvement would be nice.  Too much traffic and too many LEOs to really ride the bike around here, as intended, but it is a great ride for simply cruising at legal speeds, and sometimes above them. 

[Gigantor]

The economical riding indicator comes on automatically  when you ride efficiently.

The fuel economy assistant mode "EAM" can be turned "on" and "off" by
the meter mode button.

Two totally different ECO modes

[B.D.F.]

All of this Gen. 2 stuff is interesting and a little off- putting. Sometimes I almost want one just so I can 1) experence this 'stuff' for myself adn 2) attempt to fix some of what was changed for the worse (individual things, I am not saying the Gen. 2 bikes are inferior to Gen. 1 bikes).

Must    resist     urge. 

Brian

[tomp]

Agree.  I like being able to use the front or back brake when I want, independently of one another.

I like ABS, but rode over 40 years without it,

Heated grips?  We don't need no stinking heated grips! And on and on it goes. 

The one thing I do miss is the cruise control.  NO, WAIT, Gen II's don't have cruise either. 

I believe that my $6000 savings getting a Gen I was worth the missing items, and I got the fob in my pocket, like the other owners.  tp

[Rembrant]

I am saying the manual might be incorrect if people claim FEAM shuts off automatically and comes back simply because the manual doesn't say it can do that.

I know there are two different maps, but I don't know exactly how they differ

That would be neat.  Not sure if I would know what they mean, exactly, but someone might.

I am not confused, but I think some people are.  It would have made more sense to word the two icons differently- most illogical what they chose to do.

Exactly what I thought... yet other people claim it stays on, which I didn't want to say was wrong (because I had not tried it before) but I have seen conflicting posts about it.

Max,

I didn't mean to suggest that you were confused...I just meant that there appears to be some general confusion on the way the system works...or doesn't work...lol.

And I can't personally find anything incorrect in the owner's manual either...unless someone wants to point it out to me.

There are two different ECO's:

Fuel Economy Assistance Mode:

This is the "ECO Mode" that has to be switched on and off by the rider. It has nothing to do with speed, engine RPM, or throttle position. It is a different set of fuel maps in the FI ECU that are a little leaner than riding the motorcycle in normal mode. The "FEAM" does not turn on automatically at any time. The only automatic part about is, is that it does turn off when you turn the motorcycle off. It then must be turned on again by the rider when you start the bike again. This mode is indicated on the screen by the little rectangle "ECO" logo in the lower left hand corner of the screen. See the owner's manual for details.

Fuel Economy Riding Indicator:

This isn't a "mode" at all, it is just an indicator. You are still in normal mode and there are no changes in fueling in the FI ECU. Your bike is just telling you that you're riding your motorcycle in a manner that is "optimum for fuel efficiency", nothing more. Since this is only an indicator for optimum efficiency, it IS related to speed and RPM, etc. This is the indicator that would shut off at 80 MPH or higher. It has noting to do with the Fuel Economy Assistance Mode or any type of leaner fueling. When you are riding in this efficient zone, this is when the little "ECO" in the shape of a triangle will pop up on the screen, with the "E" on top of the "CO". This is in the owner's manual as well. As I said above, I rarely ever see this one unless I'm stuck in traffic that is doing the speed limit. If you ride your C14 on the faster side or at higher RPM's, you will rarely ever see this "ECO" indicator on the screen.

I will post up the two different maps later for any of the inquiring mind types that want to see how much leaner the "FEAM" fueling actually is. All I can tell you is that it isn't much, but you can look at the numbers and see for yourselves. They are all just numbers that can be compared...if a given cell in the normal map is 100, and the same cell in the ECO mode is 95, then you know that there is 5% less fuel being injected at that particular time. The numbers themselves don't mean anything to us common folk...they're just part of the overall calculation. BDF might know what the numbers are, but I personally do not...I just know that the percentage differences are what is real and what matters to us.

Rem

[tomp]

Interesting info.  BTW, I was perusing your site and noticed one service, removing speed limiters.  Does the C14 have a limiter, or simply run out of power, before the super sport limited  speed, due to cams, injector size, mapping and shear weight.  Don't believe I will ever need such change, due to my riding habits, but am wondering if Kawi did limit the 14... tomp

Oh, and Canada would be quite a haul from Texas to get the work done, too...tp

[Rembrant]

Interesting info.  BTW, I was perusing your site and noticed one service, removing speed limiters.  Does the C14 have a limiter, or simply run out of power, before the super sport limited  speed, due to cams, injector size, mapping and shear weight.  Don't believe I will ever need such change, due to my riding habits, but am wondering if Kawi did limit the 14... tomp

Hey Tomp,

The 2008-2009 Concours-14 does not have a speed limiter. It's the 2010-up models that do...they're limited at 154 MPH top speed. Anybody that has access to the ECU...like Guhl for example, can disable this limiter. I don't believe it's all that necessary on the street, but I believe some guys have hit the limiter on the 2010-up models when doing dyno tuning.

HTH,
Rem.

[tomp]

Does that mean my 08 should do over 154MPH, if I was silly enough to try to do so?

I didn't say this, but did have it less than 20 mph away from that speed one time on a deserted road.  Sure didn't take long to get there, either.

[Rembrant]

Does that mean my 08 should do over 154MPH, if I was silly enough to try to do so?

Yessir, it sure will. Your 08 will do around 170 MPH...maybe a little more;).

[Daytona_Mike]

Yessir, it sure will. Your 08 will do around 170 MPH...maybe a little more;).

Yup, my 2008 does 170 but its not stock.

[tomp]

It might, but not with me on it.  At my age, my reflexes aren't prepared for such speed.  Been 160+ in a Vette, but Not so on a motorcycle.

[B.D.F.]

Well first of all, I have to be honest and say that when I bought my '08 in July of '07, there was no choice so I certainly did not choose a Gen. I or Gen. II- only one was available. As far as ABS, I would have purchased that as an option but there were none available w/in a long radius that I could find. In fact, I found only 1 C-14 in the nearest four states and it was not in the state I lived in. So that is how I ended up with a Gen. I without ABS.

If I do end up with a Gen. II though, I think those linked brakes will have to go. Now I will ride the bike for a bit and generate my own opinion of course but going by the overall feedback, the linked brakes could use a little.... polish (read: elimination!).  I also would return the Flash To Pass button on the front of the left handlebar to a Flash To Pass function because I like it and I have it tied in with my air horn. I never found hitting the two buttons on the dash to be much of a problem.

But I still have another 100K miles to put on this chassis first. 

Brian

Agree.  I like being able to use the front or back brake when I want, independently of one another.

I like ABS, but rode over 40 years without it,

Heated grips?  We don't need no stinking heated grips! And on and on it goes. 

The one thing I do miss is the cruise control.  NO, WAIT, Gen II's don't have cruise either. 

I believe that my $6000 savings getting a Gen I was worth the missing items, and I got the fob in my pocket, like the other owners.  tp

[Rembrant]

For anybody that might be curious what is going on inside their C14's FI ECU when the Fuel Economy Assistance Mode is activated, you can have a look at the two images below.

The image below is your normal mode TPS fuel map. This is the map that is controlling your fuel injectors between approximately 10% throttle position and 100% WOT, at least on the North American bikes. Make note of the block I highlighted on the map @ 23% TPS and 3400 RPM. I picked this block just so that it was within a block of where one might* be while cruising on the highway. The number is 995.



The image below is your ECO Mode TPS fueling map. Now, I highlighted the same block in this map as I did in the normal mode map. In ECO mode the same block is now 945.



So a quick calculation tells us that the same block in ECO mode is 5% less, so we know that the bike is getting 5% less fuel at that particular time. You could go over all the blocks and do the same calculations, and then calculate the average...if you were curious enough...lol. I'm not.

I checked the other maps, and the ECO Mode also uses different ignition maps. I checked some random cells in the same group of blocks, and it looks like there is 2-4 more degrees of ignition advance when in ECO mode.

By the way, what Kawasaki did here is no different than what Fuelmoto was doing before the GEN-II models came out. They had Economy Maps for the PC3/5 that knocked the fueling down a few percent in the area where most people would be cruising. If anybody with a pre-2010 Concurs-14 wanted to, they could install the external map switch on the handlebar for their PC5, and run a Performance map and an ECO Map. This would give them a very similar system to what the 2010-up C14's have. The good part would be, you could set the switch to the ECO mode, and leave it there if you wanted to.

Rem

[maxtog]

If I do end up with a Gen. II [...]  I also would return the Flash To Pass button on the front of the left handlebar to a Flash To Pass function because I like it and I have it tied in with my air horn. I never found hitting the two buttons on the dash to be much of a problem.

The Gen 2 has a flash to pass built into the high/low beam switch in addition to a separate rear switch for dash display control.

[B.D.F.]

Yep, but my FTP button engages the air horn if the regular horn button is also pressed. In other words, I just loosely wrap my hand around the left grip (Easy Boys!) when in traffic say, on the highway, and if I just 'squeeze', the air horn sounds. I could not do that with the backward facing FTP on the Gen. 2's. So I would re- wire a Gen. 2 to work like a Gen. 1 and re-gain my air horn choice.

Brian

The Gen 2 has a flash to pass built into the high/low beam switch in addition to a separate rear switch for dash display control.

[B.D.F.]

Was talking to a gentleman using a pair of C-14 engines in an unusual application the other day and he mentioned that DynoJet now has a PC for a C-14 that will also control the spark. ?? Struck me as a bit odd but he was quite positive that this was the case. Heard anything about that?

Brian

<snip>

By the way, what Kawasaki did here is no different than what Fuelmoto was doing before the GEN-II models came out. They had Economy Maps for the PC3/5 that knocked the fueling down a few percent in the area where most people would be cruising. If anybody with a pre-2010 Concurs-14 wanted to, they could install the external map switch on the handlebar for their PC5, and run a Performance map and an ECO Map. This would give them a very similar system to what the 2010-up C14's have. The good part would be, you could set the switch to the ECO mode, and leave it there if you wanted to.

Rem

[maxtog]

For anybody that might be curious what is going on inside their C14's FI ECU when the Fuel Economy Assistance Mode is activated, you can have a look at the two images below.

Thanks!  This tells me exactly what I expected.  The FEAM map is different ACROSS THE BOARD.  This directly implies that the system neither switches to the normal map under high RPM or throttle, nor does it emulate the normal map under high RPM or throttle.  It stays "eco-y" all the time.  Although not 100% absolute, this is certain enough for me to disregard any post that claims staying in FEAM all the time doesn't hurt performance because it will drop out of that mode temporarily when you need performance.   When it is on, it is on.

As a second issue- It also implies this might be a good (although not perfect) way to compare the before/after effects of something like a Guhl reflash, while riding.  To be sure, we would need to see the secondary butterfly FEAM control map and compare that to the regular map (you supplied only the fuel trim map) to see how similar or different they are.

[gPink]

It may stay in eco-mode without leaning the mixture in wot instances.

[maxtog]

Yep, but my FTP button engages the air horn if the regular horn button is also pressed. In other words, I just loosely wrap my hand around the left grip (Easy Boys!) when in traffic say, on the highway, and if I just 'squeeze', the air horn sounds. I could not do that with the backward facing FTP on the Gen. 2's. So I would re- wire a Gen. 2 to work like a Gen. 1 and re-gain my air horn choice.

The flash to pass on the gen 2 is not backwards facing.  You press it down with your thumb.  Either I don't understand what you are saying, or you don't know how the Gen 2 switches are laid out.  Here is a diagram:

EDIT-  OH, I think I know what you are saying- you have that mode button too on the rear and it acts as a flash-to-pass, not a mode button.  So you can press that rear one and the front horn at the same time... something you can't do on the Gen 2.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to add a circuit so the high beam flashes with the horn so you wouldn't have to change any button function?  I thought I saw such products online somewhere...

[maxtog]

It may stay in eco-mode without leaning the mixture in wot instances.

True, that is possible.  It MIGHT switch to the regular non-FEAM map at high throttle.  But it would be easier and more logical to just make the FEAM map NOT lean out on WOT as part of the FEAM map.  Since they didn't do that, it implies it doesn't switch.  At least, that is my thought process.