Fuel Economy assistance mode

[tomp]

Sounds like an answer.  I read Concours reviews today, and the media types said that the FEAM could increase mileage by up to 25%.  Sounds kinda optimistic to me.  Anyone getting that kind of increase?  Most postings here show a 4-6 MPG increase.  That's not 25%, but better than nothing.  tp

[B.D.F.]

That seems to be inline with what most are reporting, something like 4-6. A real improvement on the Gen. 2 bikes IMO because there is no better, easier way to stretch the legs of a vehicle than reduce its fuel consumption. Riding long distances, I would really appreciate that ability.

I can get it on a Gen.1 but only by spending a lot of money and 'twiddling' a PC V and controls onto the bike. I am considering doing that very thing this year though as it looks like I will be keeping my '08 into the foreseeable future.

Brian

Sounds like an answer.  I read Concours reviews today, and the media types said that the FEAM could increase mileage by up to 25%.  Sounds kinda optimistic to me.  Anyone getting that kind of increase?  Most postings here show a 4-6 MPG increase.  That's not 25%, but better than nothing.  tp

[VirginiaJim]

This all sounds very complex.  I just changed the shield from the CB Ultra to the gen 1 stock screen and got 47mpg and was traveling about 70mph on the interstate.  I was going to arrive too early to a meeting and decided to slow a bit.  On the way back, about 80mph and averaged 45 and bit.  I just don't get the complexity of all of this.  I'm sticking with my gen 1 and hammer.

[tomp]

Brian, with today's gas prices and the average mileage the Gen I's get, I figure a dollar every 10 miles I ride.  I also ride an 1150RT and a Dyna 96ci Custom.  All three get get around 40-42 MPG, so the price per miles on all my bikes are about the same.   

The C14 is my favorite ride, and if I could get 50 MPG on it by some mods, it may be worth the modding you are considering.  Had a KLR650, and it got 50+MPG consistently, but  70+ MPH was pushing it.  That level of mileage on a 14 would be FINE....

[B.D.F.]

Actually, I had not thought of that and it is a good point. I believe I could increase the highway mileage of the bike 10, maybe 15 or even 18%. I believe a PC V, O2 sensor and auto- tune module are going to cost around $700. I never really considered it but I probably can get that back in some realistic time frame. Thanks for that thought!

Brian

Brian, with today's gas prices and the average mileage the Gen I's get, I figure a dollar every 10 miles I ride.  I also ride an 1150RT and a Dyna 96ci Custom.  All three get get around 40-42 MPG, so the price per miles on all my bikes are about the same.   

The C14 is my favorite ride, and if I could get 50 MPG on it by some mods, it may be worth the modding you are considering.  Had a KLR650, and it got 50+MPG consistently, but  70+ MPH was pushing it.  That level of mileage on a 14 would be FINE....

[tomp]

Thanks for that thought!

Brian

Always glad to be of service, sir...tp

[maxtog]

I no longer have my 2011 or the manual, but I do recall that it very specifically says that there is a throttle position and/or RPM where the ECO mode cuts out.

No it doesn't.  I read both the 2010 and 2013 manuals and then searched for several terms to make sure I didn't miss anything before I posted that it is not in the manual.

[Rhino]

Actually, I had not thought of that and it is a good point. I believe I could increase the highway mileage of the bike 10, maybe 15 or even 18%. I believe a PC V, O2 sensor and auto- tune module are going to cost around $700. I never really considered it but I probably can get that back in some realistic time frame. Thanks for that thought!

Brian

I understand that the Euro bikes have the closed loop with O2 sensor. Do they get better mileage? Also understand that Guhl can turn that on for our ECU's.

[maxtog]

Sounds like an answer.  I read Concours reviews today, and the media types said that the FEAM could increase mileage by up to 25%.  Sounds kinda optimistic to me.

Oh yeah, that is way over the top.  No way can just turning on the FEAM offer that much savings.  10% I would believe.  Even 15% I doubt.  And this is based on reading all the posts about the FEAM on many threads.  Perhaps they mean using FEAM and *also* driving like a grandmother (by keeping the "ECO" icon on at all times).

[Rembrant]

This all sounds very complex.

Everybody is making it complex...lol.

There is an ECO Mode that the rider can turn on and off with a switch.

There's an ECO riding indicator that shows up when riding the bike in an economical manner when in normal mode.

It's simply simple.

Rem

[maxtog]

I understand that the Euro bikes have the closed loop with O2 sensor. Do they get better mileage?

That is a good question.  I, too, thought I saw something about an O2 sensor on the EU model (and isn't that a great idea... why don't we get it?)  But an O2 sensor would tend to imply a real 3-way catalytic convertor too, wouldn't it?  And in such cases, it is more likely for emissions control with maybe some other side benefits.

Also understand that Guhl can turn that on for our ECU's.

That I haven't seen.  I thought the ECU for the EU model was different.  Perhaps it is just programming?  If so, there must already been an O2 sensor input into all the ECU's.  If he could activate it AND someone could add a sensor, that has a lot of possibilities and makes me wonder if they just throw away some of the maps or use it as a tweak and fallback.  It would still be missing the holy grail of proper fuel injection- the air mass sensor.

In any case, it seems at that point, it gets complex enough to just want to go the full auto-tune PC type route.

[Rhino]

That is a good question.  I, too, thought I saw something about an O2 sensor on the EU model (and isn't that a great idea... why don't we get it?)  But an O2 sensor would tend to imply a real 3-way catalytic convertor too, wouldn't it?  And in such cases, it is more likely for emissions control with maybe some other side benefits.

That I haven't seen.  I thought the ECU for the EU model was different.  Perhaps it is just programming?  If so, there must already been an O2 sensor input into all the ECU's.  If he could activate it AND someone could add a sensor, that has a lot of possibilities and makes me wonder if they just throw away some of the maps or use it as a tweak and fallback.  It would still be missing the holy grail of proper fuel injection- the air mass sensor.

In any case, it seems at that point, it gets complex enough to just want to go the full auto-tune PC type route.

I have no doubt it was for emissions and they found they could save a few bucks by leaving it off the US bikes.

[maxtog]

Everybody is making it complex...lol.

There is an ECO Mode that the rider can turn on and off with a switch.

Technically, there is no "ECO Mode", it is called the "Fuel Economy Assistance Mode" (FEAM) everywhere in the manual.... but which Kawasaki stupidly labeled the "on" indicator as "ECO" just like the ECO riding indicator, just with a different background graphic and font.  Whichever engineer did that should be flogged.  No wonder some people are confused by it.  Couple that with a sprinkle of "Engrish" ( http://www.engrish.com ) and it makes it worse.

There's an ECO riding indicator that shows up when riding the bike in an economical manner when in normal mode.

Well, actually, I think the ECO riding indicator also shows up when riding economically with FEAM activated too, doesn't it?

[Rembrant]

The Euro bikes actually have two O2 sensors...one for cylinders 1&4, and one for cylinders 2&3.

The stock headers on the North America bikes have two blank/flat/circular areas where the O2 sensor bungs are on the European headers. I welded an O2 bung in the factory Euro location on my US 2010 C14 before I installed the Area-P full system.

And the Euro TPS fuel maps in the FI ECU are actually the same as the North American (Non-California) bikes. I've compared them. So, when not in closed loop operation, they revert back into the same TPS fuel map as the North American bikes.

What I did find different in the Euro FI ECU is they do have different IAP maps, which, at a glance appear to be approximately 10% leaner than ours.

For anybody that gives a poop...lol.

Rem

[maxtog]

I have no doubt it was for emissions and they found they could save a few bucks by leaving it off the US bikes.

You are probably right.

But I also [perhaps erroneously] thought that the California emissions standards were at least as strict as Europe and the CA C14 doesn't have a 3-way cat/O2 sensor.  Maybe California is less strict on motorcycles?  I honestly have no idea.

[Rembrant]

Technically, there is no "ECO Mode", it is called the "Fuel Economy Assistance Mode" (FEAM) everywhere in the manual.... but which Kawasaki stupidly labeled the "on" indicator as "ECO" just like the ECO riding indicator, just with a different background graphic and font.  Whichever engineer did that should be flogged.  No wonder some people are confused by it.  Couple that with a sprinkle of "Engrish" ( http://www.engrish.com ) and it makes it worse.

Well, actually, I think the ECO riding indicator also shows up when riding economically with FEAM activated too, doesn't it?

Good point Max.

As far as the two ECO Logos on the screen are concerned...I can't really comment...I've personally found no benefit in using the FEAM/ECO mode, and I'm usually in an RPM range where I don't see the ECO riding indicator logo show up...so I rarely ever notice it.

[maxtog]

I'm usually in an RPM range where I don't see the ECO riding indicator logo show up...so I rarely ever notice it.

I suppose I should be embarrassed by how much the ECO riding indicator shows on my dash....  I guess our challenge (assuming we don't care about gas $) should be to see how much we can keep the ECO indicator OFF!!!  Let's get Brian to design a circuit to tap into that sucker and display a running average percent of time on/off!!

[Rembrant]

I don't really pay a whole lot of attention to MPG...my own or anybody else's online...it's just something I don't really look at. In my car, I watch it like a hawk...lol.

If I fill my tank to the brim...as much as I can get in there without spilling it, and ride until the low fuel warning comes on, I almost always get 180 miles out of that much fuel. Whatever that equates to...lol. I dunno. That is on my 2010 and on the 08 before it. I usually have my cruise set to 80+/- MPH when on the highway.

Not sure how this overall mileage compares to others, but that's my world;).

Rem

[B.D.F.]

It would seem that way but emissions testing / certification is a funny thing. It is not about what the vehicle emits new, it is about what it is likely to emit over its lifespan. And that results in some odd things.

O2 sensors used to close the loop are inherently less reliable than no sensor and an open loop system. I believe the EPA test is for 50K miles. So even if only 1 or 2 sensors fail in that amount of time, it may render the vehicle incapable of passing emissions testing during certification. Put another way, the EPA is effectively choosing a less efficient system that is simply more likely to remain closest to its original state. Overall, it would be better to have 100 bikes on the road with 2 failed O2 sensors for the least emissions but the test is much more of a 'meet a certain level under all circumstances' test. So they make all the bikes less efficient simply because they are more likely to stay that way.

Brian

I have no doubt it was for emissions and they found they could save a few bucks by leaving it off the US bikes.

[B.D.F.]

What is this 'low fuel warning' you speak of?

 

Brian

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If I fill my tank to the brim...as much as I can get in there without spilling it, and ride until the low fuel warning comes on....

<snip>