15K Maintenance (my journal of events)

[roadie]

map was hosed...redid....formulas were jacked. click on pic if hard to read.

[lt1]

FWIW, I gave up on trying to use SAE tools on metric vehicles a long time ago.  Personally, I would recommend buying a metric feeler gauge and micrometer.  I still prefer mph and mpg, but the valve adjusts were much easier for me using metric info all the way through.  As Brian said, you need to check all the measurements when you are done anyway.  The question that often comes up is whether you want to set the specs at mid-range, or at the loose end of allowable.  I went with mid-range, but the loose argument seemed reasonable to me.

[roadie]

FWIW, I gave up on trying to use SAE tools on metric vehicles a long time ago.  Personally, I would recommend buying a metric feeler gauge and micrometer.  I still prefer mph and mpg, but the valve adjusts were much easier for me using metric info all the way through.  As Brian said, you need to check all the measurements when you are done anyway.  The question that often comes up is whether you want to set the specs at mid-range, or at the loose end of allowable.  I went with mid-range, but the loose argument seemed reasonable to me.

Didn't have too bad of a time, thanks to Excel and "0.0254" conversion factor, but I like the idea of all metric.  Know where I can get?  I'll keep my eyes peeled.

[roadie]

Here is a pic of the label on my shim kit.  Is this ok to use?  Concours manual says not to use "...shims from another model..."  THey are the same diameter, but I guess that doesn't mean much.  I bought this from my local kawi dealer who said it was fine...that don't make it good either though, trust you guys more.  If it's good, so far for cylinder 4, all the shims I need are in there.  Advice appreciated. 

[B.D.F.]

Those should work fine. Plus, they are the genuine 'Chinese' types rather than some cheap knock- offs....   As long as the sizes are accurate (thickness) you should be fine.

You really cannot measure the shims with any type of calipers because they are not accurate enough. Micrometers are the right tool for that job. You do not really have to measure them though as the size code stamped on them should be good enough- that is all Kawasaki uses I suspect.

The shims are not really subject to much stress or any wear- they are just spacers. True the entire force generated by the camshaft lobes is forced through the shims to move the valves but that is not an especially high load either. So inexpensive shims should work just as well as any others and the sizes marked on the shim should be good enough to choose the right ones. Micrometer measurement is a nice idea if you already have them and know how to use them consistently- there is some skill involved in using micrometers and it is certainly possible to generate more error in the use of such a tool than there ever was in the shims themselves; put another way, used incorrectly or not properly cleaned (by closing the mikes on a piece of clean white paper and sliding the paper out from between the anvil and spindle) the reading of the micrometers will be less accurate than the numbers stamped on the shims themselves.

Brian

Here is a pic of the label on my shim kit.  Is this ok to use?  Concours manual says not to use "...shims from another model..."  THey are the same diameter, but I guess that doesn't mean much.  I bought this from my local kawi dealer who said it was fine...that don't make it good either though, trust you guys more.  If it's good, so far for cylinder 4, all the shims I need are in there.  Advice appreciated. 

[roadie]

While you were writing I was already re-measuring with the micrometer :-) as I had to use it for the buckets.  What I immediately noticed is that the stamped values on the shims exactly match a micrometer measurement...so caliper is out.  I've adjusted my cylinder four measurements, and will do with the rest of the shims/buckets and post here.

[alexx45]

Now this is some good reading right here. Thanks for sharing Will, & everyone else.

[roadie]

Now this is some good reading right here. Thanks for sharing Will, & everyone else.

No sweat, hope its helpful.  I'm getting ready to post my complete shim map for comments.  I'll see if I can post as an excel so you can download.

UPDATE:  figured it out...comments are welcome...I'd like to fine tune so that I (or anyone that wants this)...can add values, and it does much of the computing for you.  I did have to manually add the "closest shim size value to each valve.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=185;dl

[roadie]

Ok final shim map posted to media directory.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=185;dl

Here are the results:  15 of 16 shims need a swap.  I have everything except for 2.225mm.  Need 7.  I'll call kawi shop tonight to see if they have, if not perhaps some trades?  I'll post in the shim swap thread tonight after I call bike shop.

Installed   Need      
2.25   2.2      
2.25   2.2      2.2 need 2; have two
2.25   2.225      2.225 need 7; need 7 more
2.25   2.225      2.25 need 5 have all on hand
2.25   2.225      2.275 need 1 have on hand
2.25   2.225      2.3 need 1 have on hand
2.25   2.225      
2.275   2.225      
2.275   2.225      
2.275   2.25      
2.275   2.25      
2.275   2.25      
2.3   2.25      
2.3   2.25      
2.3   2.275      
2.325   2.3      

[B.D.F.]

You can also use Honda shims; they seem to be more readily available and are a couple of bucks cheaper too. You can actually use any brand shim as long as it is 9.48 diameter and the right thickness.

Brian

Ok final shim map posted to media directory.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=185;dl

Here are the results:  15 of 16 shims need a swap.  I have everything except for 2.225mm.  Need 7.  I'll call kawi shop tonight to see if they have, if not perhaps some trades?  I'll post in the shim swap thread tonight after I call bike shop.

<snipped table>

[Motor Head]

 Going through and doing this yourself, and being picky about the adjustment, you are going to get those clearances Spot On. Odds are if you had taken it in, not many shims would get changed if any, sad but true.
 Since its your bike, and can spend the extra time to do it correctly, you will end up with much better results. By the time your done with your service that bike will run really smooth.
 Personally I would keep the Bucket/ Tappet against the same lobe, so to keep any wear pattern in tact, .02c

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, on engines with softer cams and followers such as older automotive types I would do the same thing. These cams and buckets are so hard though that it is unlikely they will establish a shape from wear.

Also, all engines with shim- over- bucket require that the cam follower itself (the shim on those engines) be changed to adjust lash and they did not seem to suffer from repeated cam follower changes. Changing or moving the buckets is effectively the same as changing the shims on the earlier type engines.

Brian

<snip>

 Personally I would keep the Bucket/ Tappet against the same lobe, so to keep any wear pattern in tact, .02c

[roadie]

Yeah, on engines with softer cams and followers such as older automotive types I would do the same thing. These cams and buckets are so hard though that it is unlikely they will establish a shape from wear.

Also, all engines with shim- over- bucket require that the cam follower itself (the shim on those engines) be changed to adjust lash and they did not seem to suffer from repeated cam follower changes. Changing or moving the buckets is effectively the same as changing the shims on the earlier type engines.

Brian

I was actually looking for an opportunity to do a bucket swap, but it turned into such a shell game, I left it alone, and opted just for shims swaps.  Eitherway, At least now I have the sizes documented.  As soon as I get the shims, I'll put it all back to together, do another lash check, record results, change plugs, and then do the throttle body sync.  Its all starting to come together.  I don't anticipate I'll be done until two weekends from now, but thats ok, as it gives me time to put some miles on my son's bike.  I'm thinking its time for another horse in the stable though, for times Connie is down for maintenance...that 250 just ain't cuttin it. Maybe a used Ninja 650.  Or a used VSTROM 650!  Thats the ticket!

[Motor Head]

Yeah, on engines with softer cams and followers such as older automotive types I would do the same thing. These cams and buckets are so hard though that it is unlikely they will establish a shape from wear.

Also, all engines with shim- over- bucket require that the cam follower itself (the shim on those engines) be changed to adjust lash and they did not seem to suffer from repeated cam follower changes. Changing or moving the buckets is effectively the same as changing the shims on the earlier type engines.

Brian

 Many of the Shim Over Bucket/ Tappet Motors show significant wear on the Shim, from the lobe contact, dished. Easy to Measure with a Mic, but not a Caliper.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Going through and doing this yourself, and being picky about the adjustment, you are going to get those clearances Spot On. Odds are if you had taken it in, not many shims would get changed if any, sad but true.
 Since its your bike, and can spend the extra time to do it correctly, you will end up with much better results. By the time your done with your service that bike will run really smooth.
 Personally I would keep the Bucket/ Tappet against the same lobe, so to keep any wear pattern in tact, .02c

That is why I asked for a shim map from my dealer.  All my clearances ended up being good (40,000 miles and third valve check) but they gave me the measurements for each valve. 

[roadie]

Kawi shop in Manassas will swap shims with me for free.  Sending my son to pick them up today, schedule permitting.  If not, I'll get them Saturday.  Went through my numbers again.  I think I'm good.  we'll see when I measure again. 

one question though on torque...there are either one or two bolts you just can't get a socket onto...how to torque them.  Is a needle type torque wrench ok to use here?

[Caffeinated]

I'm thinking its time for another horse in the stable though, for times Connie is down for maintenance...that 250 just ain't cuttin it. Maybe a used Ninja 650.  Or a used VSTROM 650!  Thats the ticket!

I can help you with that!  My C10 would look good next to the 250.

[roadie]

I can help you with that!  My C10 would look good next to the 250.

Haha!!  Right right, you are still trying to find a new home for her. Did you list on eBay as well?

[Caffeinated]

Not yet, figured I'd wait till early spring to list it there.  It should sell then.

[lt1]

Kawi shop in Manassas will swap shims with me for free.  Sending my son to pick them up today, schedule permitting.  If not, I'll get them Saturday.  Went through my numbers again.  I think I'm good.  we'll see when I measure again. 

one question though on torque...there are either one or two bolts you just can't get a socket onto...how to torque them.  Is a needle type torque wrench ok to use here?

If you can get a needle-type torque wrench to fit, use it.  At that point I used my finely-calibrated wrist/forearm to torque the last few.  To calibrate, tighten some of the others by hand, then check with the tq wrench.  Not perfect, but best I could do.