Author Topic: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling UPDATE on page six  (Read 27845 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2011, 05:49:35 PM »
I have only seen two clogged but they were both clogged in the vertical section. Go figure. I too would have though the clog would be in the horizontal run.

To clean them out I have only removed the top of the tube from the frame and used a long, thin screwdriver to reach down the tube. I was too scarred to even try to remove the entire piece of tubing (it is way, way inside the bike).  :D

Brian


10-4 on that shot
the other end with the 90* fitting is the tough one to see/reach to plug back in.
I would assume it would be prone to clogs all along the semi-horizontal run between the spot you showed, and that fitting.
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Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2011, 06:03:38 PM »
it takes me 3 just to get the courage to attempt getting the bike on the lift...... :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :yikes: :thumbs: :rotflmao:

Then another 3 to take the plastics off, by that time I have forgotten what I was doing and just end up sitting in the garage finishing off the rest of the beer and staring at the bike.
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2011, 07:08:04 PM »
Nothing wrong with that, Jeremy.
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Offline koval68

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2011, 08:02:58 PM »
Then another 3 to take the plastics off, by that time I have forgotten what I was doing and just end up sitting in the garage finishing off the rest of the beer and staring at the bike.
LOL ! I've been there, done that!   
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Offline baddean

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2011, 08:06:17 PM »
it takes me 3 just to get the courage to attempt getting the bike on the lift...... :rotflmao: :chugbeer: :yikes: :thumbs: :rotflmao:

When I put the bike on the lift backwards to work on the front end I have to get out the Jim Beam and call in a couple of neighbors. Then we kill the Beam and I work on it later. :chugbeer:
Dean

Offline Fretka

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2011, 08:06:53 PM »
That breather tube goes down into the deepest recesses of the sump. One way to get at it is to pull the bottom pan and there ya go! I removed mine completely due to positive crankcase pressure from the turbo, got real tired of oiling down my left pant leg. :(
Yep, I agree that if you do good works as you have MOB, then you deserve thanks and respect for doing it. You have mine. Also I think I'll use Brian BDF as my new role model  :yikes: He has a healthy way of looking at things (except for the Mandlebrot/Julia set fetish).  ;)

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Offline kdm

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Re: This might be a new one here
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2011, 08:04:08 AM »
We used to do that in the "old days" when you could get to the intake and just hold the rpms up while misting or pouring water right in to the carbs or early throttle bodies. This worked really well on soft powdery carbon fouling. This stuff I'm seeing in my C14 has to be chipped or scraped off. I'm not sure it could be removed with the water injection method.
Modifying your bike for the water injection would surely be a challenge. I would try this first.
http://www.stp.com/products/fuel-additives/complete-fuel-system-cleaner/
I appologize for giggling when I read your post. I was invisioning you in your garage with a complete machine shop setup and more tools than I would ever know how to use and a Masters Degree in mechanical engineering, designing a fully functioning water injection system for your C14 that you might use once every 3 years.
It's the thought that counts and it was something that Bill, from BoreTech, and I discussed. We both decided that it would definately be more trouble that it would be worth.
Dean

Pretty funny -thats not me! Just been wrenching on cars for 30 years .When I read about the humongous carbon buildup In your motor ,that old trick popped into my head-hardly practical on a modern bike engine !

Have to say the idea of the intake valves being a little tight makes the most sense of any idea on this post so far imho - maybe in combo with a too rich map on the pc.
Please keep us posted if you arrive at a conclusive answer .

Keith
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2008 C14

Offline stevewfl

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Re: This might be a new one here
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2011, 08:33:23 AM »
Pretty funny -thats not me! Just been wrenching on cars for 30 years .When I read about the humongous carbon buildup In your motor ,that old trick popped into my head-hardly practical on a modern bike engine !

Have to say the idea of the intake valves being a little tight makes the most sense of any idea on this post so far imho - maybe in combo with a too rich map on the pc.
Please keep us posted if you arrive at a conclusive answer .

Keith

PC mapping was first thing came to mind for me when i opened this thread.  On my ZX14 at sea level mine was set so rich using a canned map it fouled the exhaust, plugs, etc.  Quick trip to the dyno resolved it.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2011, 08:54:57 AM »
Tanks.  Sounds like a 4-beer procedure to me...

It's at least a 4 beer job Jim.

Some may recall the condensation problem that I was having with my bike back in '09 (a new 'stat seems to have cured that issue). Lots of moisture in the site glass and someone mentioned that the crankcase breather might be clogged, I think that it was Brian. I tore into it and here's the result. You can see the white oil foam (emulsion) in the pics below. I used my shop vac to create a vacuum in the beer bottle and then suck the foam out of the tube.



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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2011, 09:38:40 AM »
Oh, the humanity!  Please tell me the beer bottle was empty.

That's a pretty big crankcase hose.  Didn't realize that.  Thanks for the pictures.
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Offline baddean

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Re: This might be a new one here
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2011, 10:11:47 AM »
PC mapping was first thing came to mind for me when i opened this thread.  On my ZX14 at sea level mine was set so rich using a canned map it fouled the exhaust, plugs, etc.  Quick trip to the dyno resolved it.

I guess I haven't mentioned it so far but I bought the PCIII from Fuel Moto and they mapped it for the flies out and stock exhaust. Doesn't mean that it might be mapped wrong but I've always been happy with the fuel mileage and the way the bike has performed.
I think I'm going with MOBs ideas on the issue.
Dean

Offline stevewfl

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2011, 10:32:24 AM »
I doubt its your problem too, I was just sharing my experience with a canned map for full system/flies out/filter on my ZX14.

It was running rich at sea level.  We custom mapped it on a dyno and resolved the issue. 
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Offline Conrad

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2011, 10:59:48 AM »
Oh, the humanity!  Please tell me the beer bottle was empty.

Do you really have to ask?    8)

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Offline Freddy

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2011, 12:16:31 PM »
My son has a Triumph 1050Tiger.  Recently a forum member in Wisconsin raised the same issue and posted the pic below of the inlet valves on his bike which had 6000 miles.



My son happened to have the airbox off his engine at the time and posted this pic of his inlet valves at after running the hi octane we get in Australia for 30,000 miles.

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Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2011, 12:23:11 PM »
That is some serious carbon build up, but at 6,000 miles...........that is completely insane! 
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline Freddy

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2011, 12:55:17 PM »
That is some serious carbon build up, but at 6,000 miles...........that is completely insane!

YES!  The discussion has been about fuel additives not octane, I should point out.  Ethanol is not yet in all fuels here and, by law, not permitted to be added to premium grade (high octane) - yet.
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Offline lather

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2011, 01:06:20 PM »
Jeeez! Guess I'll go out to the 100* garage and have a look at mine.
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.

Offline xKLR

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2011, 02:04:21 PM »
It sounds like fuel and oil consumption were normal so those aren't the culprits. Something was causing abnormally high levels of deposits. Baddean, what gas stations do you frequent?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2011, 02:23:09 PM »
That breather tube goes down into the deepest recesses of the sump. One way to get at it is to pull the bottom pan and there ya go! I removed mine completely due to positive crankcase pressure from the turbo, got real tired of oiling down my left pant leg. :(
.....Fretka

I have not removed the hose, or the vent plate/cover it is inserted into, but I have looked closely thru the factory book about this when writing my responses. It does not appear to me to protrude any further than the top plate, and I tend to believe this as if it did go way down inside, it would create problems. It is just a vent. When you say yo got "oiled", did you mean from the other smaller line coming from the airbox that is defined as the box "drain/vent"?
It should have a reservoir at the bottom, near the throttle adjuster knob, and the fuel tank overflow hose, and both the fuel and airbox lines should be plugged below those plastic reservoirs. I understand that when you pressurize the airbox, you will be by all rights, also pressurizing the crankcase with that vent attached, removing the hose where it attaches to the plenum box at the rear, plugging the box fitting, and installing a small vent filter (K&N makes a tiny unit just for that purpose) in the hose, or even installing an automotive PCV valve inline with that small filter, will still allow positive venting of the crankcase without allowing stuff to be sucked back in there. I think plugging the case vent is not a good idea, as it does need venting, if not, you risk seal blowout on all the things that protrude into the engine, such as the cam position sensors, shift shaft, output shaft, valve cover, balancer shafts, etc.


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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: This might be a new one here...carbon fouling
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2011, 02:26:23 PM »
It sounds like fuel and oil consumption were normal so those aren't the culprits. Something was causing abnormally high levels of deposits. Baddean, what gas stations do you frequent?

please go back and read a bit more on this thread, to see a bit better of what was already covered, ok? ;)

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