Author Topic: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT  (Read 53650 times)

Sofa King

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2011, 01:48:48 PM »
BMW "Click"? I agree to disagree. The BMW is more bike.  Maybe a little more bike for much more money and not a value play, but the bike is more and deserves the credit the mags are giving it for being on top this year. 

Buit I expect this forum (like the Suzuki and Honda forums) to be biased, and even call the BMW riders clickish and such for a feel-good.  Personally I'd rather ride my C14 bike too but I can't knock a manufacturer for being on top.

And if anyone is wondering, a BMW GT can be had for the price listed if you negotiate write. Same with a jap bike, sure there are fees and such, I flew to NJ to avoid all that on mine and get lower than sticker. Same can be done on a Triumph, BMW, Aprilia, Ducati, or any other brand thats been cutting into the jap sales consistently over the past 5 years.

I think you misunderstood, at least a portion, of what I was saying there.  Again, I suspect the bike is a wonderful piece of machinery.  I am too also quite sure its extremely well engineered.  That having been said, it *is* a total clique brand.  The Bimmer guys are as cliqueish as the H.O.G. guys and gals.  I'm just saying, it's not my thing, for bikes.

I would still like to have a GS, FWIW.

As to whether something is worth that much money or not.  Clearly, if someone bought it for that much then they felt it was worth that much.  Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.  Economics aside, I'd have the bike.  But until I sell my company, I'm riding, and loving, this C14.  Alot.

It just think if you don't take economics into account for these kinds of tests, then where do you draw the line?  Is the only criteria that it must be a homologated motorcycle?  My point being that they didn't create strata within this comparison because to do so would leave the the BMW in its own class because of price, so they had to measure on merits alone.  Not a bad thing, just not quite fair either.  But for a bunch of guys who ride motorcycles for a living and probably have been riding a demo bike of one kind or another in recent memory, OPM is irrelevant to this test.

I mean, we aren't talking $5000 vs $5500 here.  We are talking $12K vs what $18K?  Sure, it had BETTER be a @#$! of alot better.  That's not to take away from the fact that it is the winner.  I just have a hard time with the term better here I suppose.  And before you say it, I am actually a Honda guy.  The ST just didn't wet my whistle.

Offline ZG

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2011, 04:18:35 PM »
Well I've never owned a German bike but have owned many German cars...
 
The quality, comfort features, and attention to detail on German cars is WAY better then Japanese cars IMO! Apples and oranges I know, but if their bike building is anything like their car building I'm sure they don't suck...
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offline maxtog

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2011, 04:25:00 PM »
Some of what you say is true and some is not.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Quote
Handlebars are different, suspensions are different, exhaust is different, seats are different and probably a few other things I've missed.

Well, I already said bars and seats.  What info do you have that the suspension or exhaust is different?  In all the photos, the exhaust (at least) looks identical (of course looks can be deceiving).
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Offline jjsC6

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2011, 04:56:43 PM »
That wouldn't surprise me.

Well, I already said bars and seats.  What info do you have that the suspension or exhaust is different?  In all the photos, the exhaust (at least) looks identical (of course looks can be deceiving).

I have read a lot about the bikes.  When I say the suspension is different, I mean spring and damping rates - not the basic components.  I've read that the exhaust has more of an aggressive sound on the GT.
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline stevewfl

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2011, 05:53:43 PM »
Thanks Sofa King for clarification, I understand now and can't disagree.

ZG....wow! Your cars are ALMOST as pretty as your bike
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Offline ZG

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2011, 06:03:26 PM »

ZG....wow! Your cars are ALMOST as pretty as your bike




Thanks bro!


I don't have one anymore, as listed below was the order of my progression with them though over about 10 years, then the economy crapped out and I went back to my original long time passion, bikes...  ;D


Sorry for the brief threadjack, the debate of Germany vs Japan quality inspired me...

Offline AirplaneTim

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2011, 08:14:09 PM »
The BMW crowd is exactly like the crowd I hung around growing up as the kid of a guy who sold European cars.  They were all convinced the European cars were better than the jap copies.  The Jap car didn't have 'soul'.  pfffttt, whatever.

Every single British car my Dad has ever had, or has ever worked on is actually a pile of junk.  They actually rusted from the factory.  They had to fix them off the delivery truck.  They were really just crappy cars.  But they had something about them that ALOT of people really liked.  But to me, they just looked neat, sounded cool (when they ran), but were really just a big hole to throw money into.  The first car I bought with my own money was a 1990 Honda Civic Si.  Now that little car didn't just have a Soul, it had a heart. 

I think it's a crime to try to group BMW in with any car that ever came out of Great Britain.

Offline lt1

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2011, 11:12:24 PM »
Fortunately, nobody is forcing any of us to buy a bike we don't want.  Having owned a CBX, I followed the K16 development with interest.  If I had a spare $25k burning a hole in my pocket, it would be very temping to crunch the numbers on a GT.  As it is, I'm just glad to see it on the market.  There is something about the smoothness and sounds from an inline 6 motorcycle that appeals to me on a gut level.  BMW has been on a roll with new models and rising sales.  Good on 'em.
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Sofa King

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2011, 07:11:17 AM »
Quote
I think it's a crime to try to group BMW in with any car that ever came out of Great Britain.

You are SOOOO right...

Offline Mister Tee

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2011, 08:36:57 AM »
Or possibly, in this case, make more power, but lose it all due to additional weight.

Topspeed quotes the power of the 1600 GT engine to be 160 hp to the crank.  A stock C14 typically dynos around 140 hp to the wheels.  That's at least 160 hp to the crank.

Offline stevewfl

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2011, 08:55:29 AM »
Topspeed quotes the power of the 1600 GT engine to be 160 hp to the crank.  A stock C14 typically dynos around 140 hp to the wheels.  That's at least 160 hp to the crank.

+1

The BMW totes a little more weight, but between the extra Hp and downlow BRUTE torque, it makes the right pow-ah  ;D
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Offline Rhino

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2011, 09:01:40 AM »
When I test rode the K1200LT from the factory demo truck it was before they announced the K1600. My comment on the 1200LT was "A fantastic touring bike. Handles much better then the size and weight would have you believe. But where's the torque?". If some marketing puke read that he must have been smiling knowing the 1600 was on its way.

Offline stevewfl

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2011, 12:31:39 PM »
When I test rode the K1200LT from the factory demo truck it was before they announced the K1600. My comment on the 1200LT was "A fantastic touring bike. Handles much better then the size and weight would have you believe. But where's the torque?". If some marketing puke read that he must have been smiling knowing the 1600 was on its way.

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Offline rcannon409

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2011, 05:53:27 AM »
The Horsepower figures are printed in the test.

C14    132.2
BMW   133.9

The BMW does have a torque advantage as it tested at 114.5@5200 and the c14 shows 89@66.25


Offline booger

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2011, 06:17:26 AM »
Well I've never owned a German bike but have owned many German cars...
 
The quality, comfort features, and attention to detail on German cars is WAY better then Japanese cars IMO! Apples and oranges I know, but if their bike building is anything like their car building I'm sure they don't suck...
 

 

 

 

 

 


I've owned one german bike and 3 german cars.  And all of them have been expensive, dissappointing pain in the asses.

I'll stick with my Japanese and USA automobiles.

Offline olie

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2011, 07:30:11 AM »
Power is not an issue on the C14 but torque at low RPM makes a smoother ride. In other words, I am looking forward to Kawasaki to match the BMW with a 6cyl using their previous experience of ~10y with 6 cylinder bikes. With the additional cruise control, better 2up accomodations, etc, they can target it to GW and GTL slots.

I will be in with the Kawa 6cyl "GT" model. Till then, my C14 keeps rocking.

I just came back from a 5.5k mile trip, 2/3 of which was done 2up. C14 is a GREAT bike... 36K+ miles on the odo and still rocks like new.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 07:43:24 AM by olie »
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Offline martin_14

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2011, 04:53:20 PM »
I have been following this thread for a few days now and didn't feel like I had anything to add, keeping in mind that I wrote about my experience with the K1600 GT/L, but some of the posters simply don't know what they are writing about, first among which is Steve. Sorry Steve if you take it as a personal attack, but I also take it personal when somebody throws nonsense at me and expects me to brainlessly believe it.

I have the luck to have tested both bikes a few times in different scenarios and also driving in groups on it or behind or in front. And I own the Kawa. So a few points:
- GT and GTL are the same bike. Changes are the topcase, the pegs (bigger, lower, more forward on the L), the handlebars (more forward on the GT), the suspension (not mechanicaly, just more preload on the rear), the maximum speed (in both cases electronically limited, slightly lower on the GTL), air flaps, seat. That is less than what I already changed in my Kawa, and it is still the same bike than yours.
- the BMW is a terrific bike, both versions tour wonderfully, and the GT will allow more lean angle than the GTL at the expense of some comfort. But if you took the best sportbike and compare it with the Kawa, the latter is about 80% of the former. It really is a great performer, surprisingly capable for a bike this size. The BMW would be 50%, in my opinion. Then, if you take the best touring bike (say, a Goldwing), the BMW would be about as good or better for the driver, but the passenger comfort is clearly lower. I'd put it then at 90% of touring capabilities, whereas the Kawa would be at 70%.

So basically, the BMW is much more touring oriented. I would never consider it a sporting bike in any meaning of the word. Yes, it can corner very well, better than a bike that size should, but it still doesn't corner like a Kawa. And touring wise is not light years ahead. The balance attained by the C14 is really high, whereas the BMW gives away too much on the sport side to earn more credit on the touring side, for my taste anyway. Touring and sport riding and two very different constrains when it comes to design a bike, and noone makes a better job at combining them with so little compromises as the Kawasaki.

I know I'm repeating myself but this is how I see it: if you have a K1600, you'll go on that tour and get to the hotel very relaxed after many km. But if you want to hit the curves you need something else. With the Kawa, you will arrive a bit less relaxed, but you can attack the curves and have fun and only a handful of bikes (given all other factors equal) will pull away (S1000RR and such).

So try stopping to explain us how much more bike the K1600 is. It isn't. It's a different bike that does other things better than the Kawa, but not by that much, and other things worse, by quite a bit.

Last but not least, these are bikes. We buy with the heart, not the brain, so if it makes YOU happy go get it. I had the chance to sample the Honda VFR1200 this week and understood the meaning of "never meet your hero", while right now I'm sampling a Ducati Diavel and I can't find a single reason to buy it, except that I can't stop thinking how much I want to buy it...
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2011, 05:04:46 PM »
Martin from what you are saying, the BMW's (either one) are more Goldwing than Concours 14, right?

I looked at them today.  They are the same bike. The dealer was very knowledgeable on the bike and said suspension tuning was the biggest difference.  Obviously, accessories like you mentioned....I also agree 100% on the vfr. 

Offline stevewfl

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2011, 05:21:51 PM »
No, I don't consider the comments a personaol attack on me, I phished some of them out as stirring the pot.

I like how many say they are the SAME bike then note a trillion differences:

Quote
- GT and GTL are the same bike. Changes are the topcase, the pegs (bigger, lower, more forward on the L), the handlebars (more forward on the GT), the suspension (not mechanicaly, just more preload on the rear), the maximum speed (in both cases electronically limited, slightly lower on the GTL), air flaps, seat.


Quote
They are the same bike. The dealer was very knowledgeable on the bike and said suspension tuning was the biggest difference.  Obviously, accessories like you mentioned....


Now how can i consider such glaring contradictions (and obvious differences in weight, suspension, and options)  a personal attack against me? Its all good fella's   
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: CycleWord Comparison of Concours 14 vs Bmw K1600GT
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2011, 05:37:34 PM »
Different bike means "different" to me.  Something like a zx10r and a Ninja 1000. When a machine uses the same engine, frame, wheels, suspension components, brakes and such its the same .  Accessories and color can change, but its still the same basic bike. They become even more "same" if options are added to the lower level model.

I saw them as if I was looking at Honda Civics.  The "DX"  "LX" or "EX" had many different accessories, but one was high end, the other..not so high end.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 07:33:58 PM by rcannon409 »