Author Topic: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...  (Read 12692 times)

Offline Mad River Marc

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Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« on: July 26, 2011, 10:23:15 AM »
Was out with a riding buddy of mine who is on a new Dievel,  This bike too has a "Keyless" ignition system with a transponder FOB similar to our Beloved(or behated) Kipass..

However,  there is one big difference that really stands out in my book,   if you forget your FOB and need to start the bike, there is a method you can use to enter a 5 digit code into the computer and the bike will start.  Also it doesn't use a spring loaded activation switch, it uses a pushbutton below the LCD screen.....

The technology is getting better IMHO, I really think all the problems that Kipass itself had were because for Motorcycles it really is a first generation system.  Yes there have been some problems (As much as I do like the system, I do acknowledge that there HAVE been some pretty major issues with it) and I hope that over time they will work out the kinks.

I was talking with my friends father about this the other day, and he (being of an older generation) told me of when automatic transmissions came out that many of the same concerns were voiced and those first few years of auto's weren't very reliable.  Yet today it is a VERY reliable system, as the technology matures we will see it more and more with less and less issues......

Just my 0.02

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 11:30:02 AM »
It does not use a spring loaded switch but has a pushbutton? ???? Does the pushbutton return to the 'up' position after it is pressed down, and if so, what is it that causes the pushbutton to return? ????

It is the identical system that Kawasaki uses. Kawasaki simply mounts the pushbutton under the outer key ring on the ignition. The Ducati pushbutton could stick down in the identical way that the Kawasaki system occasionally has in the past.

Brian



<snip>

 Also it doesn't use a spring loaded activation switch, it uses a pushbutton below the LCD screen.....

<snip>

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 11:36:31 AM »
I'm not concerned with what Ducati did, but KAWASAKI got KiPass RIGHT on 99.9999% of the C14s.

Even though the new BMW K1600GT FOB controls the luggage and all, still it has not the MAD POW-AH of the mighty KiPass we own

OK, corrected for my friend Bob
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Bob

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 11:38:16 AM »
I'm not concerned with what Ducati did, but KAWASAKI got KiPass RIGHT.

Even though the BMW FOB controls the luggage and all, still it has not the MAD POW-AH of the mighty KiPass we own


No they didn't. Had they got it right, we wouldn't have all the debates between the guys that had troubles or just don't like it because of the peoblems. And the guys who haven't had a problem and like it.   ;D

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 11:45:48 AM »
It is true Steve, a fine system attached to a fine bike makes the C-14 hard to beat.....

Brian


I'm not concerned with what Ducati did, but KAWASAKI got KiPass RIGHT.

Even though the new BMW K1600GT FOB controls the luggage and all, still it has not the MAD POW-AH of the mighty KiPass we own
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 11:47:11 AM »
Yes sir BDF, and I have also corrected my post above for Bob
“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 11:57:07 AM »
Ah KiPass..... it is like some legendary, mythical artifact with limitless powers and abilities. And like the monolith in the beginning of the movie 2001: A space odyssey, it really fires up some of the natives.

The sign of the cross for vampires.
Silver bullets for werewolves.
KiPass for KiPaZilla.

 ;D

Brian



Yes sir BDF, and I have also corrected my post above for Bob
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 12:03:08 PM »
Perhaps I should clarify, it doesn't have a mechanical switch with a spring,  it uses a button akin to a button on a cell phone (Makes contact with a PCB instead of closing a contact between 2 larger wires)   Now this model is too new to know how reliable that button will be after being exposed to the elements for a while, but what i DO like is they have the ability to bypass the FOB authentication system and enter a code manually to start the bike.


As much fun as it is to debate Kipass (and it IS fun) it has it's pluses and minuses, and I still assert that for motorcycles this is really a first gen system and they still have not worked out all the bugs yet.  Bugs will hit different people differently, which explains why many people have had no problems with it at all, and then you have many who have,  and some (like Bob) who REALLY got whammied with Kipass failures.

Reminds me of my old 93 Hyundai Excel,  biggest piece of crap I ever owned (I was 19 and it was cheap LOL, so cheap a 19 year old could afford it brand new working part time to make the payments :) )   I had that car for 4 years and 80k miles and in that time I went through 6 transmissions (Kept blowing the syncros and bearings for some reason) 2 AC compressors, a rear Axle, 2 Steering columns and 2 bad wheel bearings.

However, a fellow classmate of mine who bought the same car a year later drove it for years and racked up over 150k without a single issue....  I suspect we are having a similar thing with Kipass, 

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 12:11:29 PM »
Perhaps I should clarify, it doesn't have a mechanical switch with a spring,  it uses a button akin to a button on a cell phone (Makes contact with a PCB instead of closing a contact between 2 larger wires)   Now this model is too new to know how reliable that button will be after being exposed to the elements for a while, but what i DO like is they have the ability to bypass the FOB authentication system and enter a code manually to start the bike.


As much fun as it is to debate Kipass (and it IS fun) it has it's pluses and minuses, and I still assert that for motorcycles this is really a first gen system and they still have not worked out all the bugs yet.  Bugs will hit different people differently, which explains why many people have had no problems with it at all, and then you have many who have,  and some (like Bob) who REALLY got whammied with Kipass failures.

Reminds me of my old 93 Hyundai Excel,  biggest piece of crap I ever owned (I was 19 and it was cheap LOL, so cheap a 19 year old could afford it brand new working part time to make the payments :) )   I had that car for 4 years and 80k miles and in that time I went through 6 transmissions (Kept blowing the syncros and bearings for some reason) 2 AC compressors, a rear Axle, 2 Steering columns and 2 bad wheel bearings.

However, a fellow classmate of mine who bought the same car a year later drove it for years and racked up over 150k without a single issue....  I suspect we are having a similar thing with Kipass,

Bugs!?  When can i expect these bugs to appear?  I'm willing to bet they don't exist, but if you can put a mileage up when you suspect they'll appear on my bike I'm willing to consider a wager......   

When it comes to Kawasaki bugs, KiPass has been my exterminator
“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 12:21:48 PM »


When it comes to Kawasaki bugs, KiPass has been my exterminator

Dude, how you play with your FOB is your own business LOL

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 12:25:26 PM »
That is called a 'klixon' switch and while they are very inexpensive, they have a high failure rate due to the 'dome' wrinkling and especially due to the circuit board oxidizing. It is the classic failure point on items like Audiovox CC switches. Just food for thought but have you ever seen a klixon switch used on a motorcycle anywhere else? Mechanical contact switches are far more reliable when exposed to a harsh environment such as a motorcycle being used outside.

Bob didn't get really whammied, he had one or two incidences of the activation switch sticking. Ask him to show you the receipts or any type of paperwork from "all" the cases of failure, towing the bike, et. a.. He will not be able to produce them. He will also carry on endlessly but again, he will not be able to produce any paperwork. The dealer(s) where all of this warranty work allegedly occurred would have records but again, they will not be produced either. I have been a member of this forum from the beginning and watched the number of incidents progress from either one or two to some very high number as the stories are told over and over again.

As far as the ability to enter a code and start the bike, I agree that that is a new feature not found on Kawasakis and may well be useful. Of course it adds cost to the bike and everyone who buys one has to pay for that even if they never use it so it is a judgment call as to whether or not it is a good idea.

But in the end, I still firmly believe that KiPass has attained 'legend' status where facts and reality not only are not the main issue, they don't really even apply anymore. So did Ducati get it 'right'? Perhaps. One thing I am sure of is that no matter how many failures the new Ducati system may have, they won't hold a candle to the imaginary failures of KiPass. I can imagine the talk around the nursing home 30 years from now: "In my day, we had a horrible, scary thing called KiPass! It was so bad it stranded not only the bikes it was actually attached to but also any vehicle within a 1,000 yard reference!" Yep, legendary.

Brian



Perhaps I should clarify, it doesn't have a mechanical switch with a spring,  it uses a button akin to a button on a cell phone (Makes contact with a PCB instead of closing a contact between 2 larger wires)   Now this model is too new to know how reliable that button will be after being exposed to the elements for a while, but what i DO like is they have the ability to bypass the FOB authentication system and enter a code manually to start the bike.


As much fun as it is to debate Kipass (and it IS fun) it has it's pluses and minuses, and I still assert that for motorcycles this is really a first gen system and they still have not worked out all the bugs yet.  Bugs will hit different people differently, which explains why many people have had no problems with it at all, and then you have many who have,  and some (like Bob) who REALLY got whammied with Kipass failures.

Reminds me of my old 93 Hyundai Excel,  biggest piece of crap I ever owned (I was 19 and it was cheap LOL, so cheap a 19 year old could afford it brand new working part time to make the payments :) )   I had that car for 4 years and 80k miles and in that time I went through 6 transmissions (Kept blowing the syncros and bearings for some reason) 2 AC compressors, a rear Axle, 2 Steering columns and 2 bad wheel bearings.

However, a fellow classmate of mine who bought the same car a year later drove it for years and racked up over 150k without a single issue....  I suspect we are having a similar thing with Kipass,
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 12:34:31 PM »

I can imagine the talk around the nursing home 30 years from now: "In my day, we had a horrible, scary thing called KiPass! It was so bad it stranded not only the bikes it was actually attached to but also any vehicle within a 1,000 yard reference!" Yep, legendary.

Brian

I thought you were going to establish the "First Amalgamated Church of Kipass" to stamp out the unbelievers? LOL

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 12:46:42 PM »
Nah, I merely like the system.

As far as the unbelievers, that is fine. It is those with an unnatural fear of and agenda toward KiPass that are more frightening to me. It links us with our hairy ancestors and isn't the prettiest facet of humanity IMO. I prefer reason and measured responses, not killing a virgin to make the corn grow or throwing rocks at the moon to ward off its evilness.

Besides, it is Kirby with the sharp agenda....  ;)

Brian



I thought you were going to establish the "First Amalgamated Church of Kipass" to stamp out the unbelievers? LOL
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 12:52:20 PM »
not killing a virgin to make the corn grow or throwing rocks at the moon to ward off its evilness.


So is THAT what people who had Kipass issues did wrong? they couldn't find a Virgin to sacrifice? LOL

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 12:58:28 PM »
Real KiPass issues or imaginary ones? The real ones were all due to a sticky activation switch as far as I know.

The imaginary ones could be caused by anything from a simple chemical imbalance (RED pill in the morning, BLUE pill at night!) to the phase of the moon. Also not reciting the KiPass incantation properly.

Have you seen that Far Side cartoon of the Native Americans standing outside while thousands of egg beaters fall from the sky? There are two people reading a book titled something like 'The big book of dances' and one says 'Oh, TWO steps to the left and THREE steps to the right.'

Brian


So is THAT what people who had Kipass issues did wrong? they couldn't find a Virgin to sacrifice? LOL
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 01:36:01 PM »
Yep, no paperwork.

Easy there Cap'n Bob, you are going to pop something.  ;D

This thread is heading for a big 'ole lock methinks.

Brian



<snipped rant>

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 01:42:29 PM »
Ok guys, lets take a step back here....

I posted this topic to point out that this type of system is making its' way into other bikes and to highlight the different way Ducati is implementing it,  that's it!  I am NOT trying to upset people and I most defiantly do NOT want 2 people who are clearly friends pissed at each other.... 



Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 01:47:53 PM »
I cannot believe this thread isn't locked yet....

I am not cranky in the least. As I said, the KiPass topic has been going on forever and generates a lot of emotion.

Just an observation Mark but using a thread title the way you did clearly implies that Kawasaki 'did NOT get it right'. Whatever your intention, the title of this very thread is skewed the way <most> KiPass threads are. This is merely an observation, not meant as a criticism.

Using the words "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" is not merely a question but an accusation.

Brian



Ok guys, lets take a step back here....

I posted this topic to point out that this type of system is making its' way into other bikes and to highlight the different way Ducati is implementing it,  that's it!  I am NOT trying to upset people and I most defiantly do NOT want 2 people who are clearly friends pissed at each other....
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2011, 01:49:26 PM »
It wasn't my intention when I created the title but I can see how it could be misconstrued....

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ducati may have gotten Kipass right...
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 01:57:36 PM »
I do not believe most people even realize the bias they often put on subjects like KiPass (politics, religion, etc. ad nauseum). It really is a tremendously emotional topic and it is difficult to discuss it without that sneaky bias showing up.

But all the way back to the start, let's see how Ducati makes out with that system. Unfortunately Ducati does not sell enough bikes to give us much data on the number of failures but it will be interesting to watch. And there will be more and more bikes showing up with this type of system soon, just as it did with cars some years ago.

By the way, what I think would be a great improvement to KiPass would be a buzzer or chime if you shut the bike off and leave the ignition in the on position. I really thought it would show up on the 2010 models but it did not.

Brian



It wasn't my intention when I created the title but I can see how it could be misconstrued....
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com