Sold my Concours to get something different

[maxtog]

Did you want him to place his source somewhere?

Or did you mean cite?

Cite of course.  Thanks

[O.C.]

And not Sauce     

[O.C.]

I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition.  Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another.   If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap!  More adjustability is always nice.  I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.

My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert.  Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have.  Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering.  If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel  capacity.  Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.

One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials.  If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).

Agreed....although the Super Tenere I owned had a great instrument panel which was informative and very easy to read in all light conditions, the main thing that p*ssed me off about it was that the Gear position indication was immediately lost when pulling in the clutch, and the outside temperature guage took its reading from the induction  side of the fuel system which meant it was always out of sync with external temperature ...oh and the speedometer read about 10% fast, which I guess is better than reading slow

Picture here   


   

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

To those who think the c-14 is a detuned zx14, let's look at it another way. There's nothing de-tuned about the c-14 . The zx 14 is simply a hotrodded   c-14 engine.     Steve

[just gone]

I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition.  Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another.   If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap!  More adjustability is always nice.  I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.

My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert.  Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have.  Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering.  If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel  capacity.  Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.

One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials.  If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).

 I agree with the lighting and the increase in tank size or a corresponding change in  MPG. It should have a solid 250 mile range before hitting reserve or dash warning.

I could care less about the analog gauges as I rarely look at either one. I use the GPS almost exclusively for speed information. A display like the Super Ténéré would be fine minus the gnarly surround framing and the disappearing gear indicator.

Tip over protection is a must, just design it into the bike like the Honda did with the STs. It doesn't need to be perfect but it should be robust and protect  99% for a 0mph tip over and have easily replaceable slider covers. 

Electronically adjustable suspension would be a great option. I've never had it but almost all that have it like it or pretend to. Like I said, a great OPTION along with the remote locking bags. Not stock but they could call it the Option package filled with a mix of stuff including a loud horn. If they could find a couple of good mounting spots (1 front 1 rear) I guess they could even have cup holders in the option package.

Assuming it will be throttle by wire, so yes to the stock cruise control.

Battery-less TPMS...I'm not familiar with the current cost of these so maybe, (Would be nice to keep even the Option packaged bike below $20 grand) but certainly an externally replaceable battery and a wheel designed (balanced) for it so that the wheel weights don't always seem to end up opposite the valve stem like they do now on my C14.

[maxtog]

Agreed....although the Super Tenere I owned had a great instrument panel which was informative and very easy to read in all light conditions, [photo]

While it is not bad, I still do not like digital speedometers, which is what that is showing.  I want a nice, analog dial for both speedometer and tachometer.  I think the C14/ZX dash is the only ones left out there with that.

[maxtog]

Electronically adjustable suspension would be a great option. I've never had it but almost all that have it like it or pretend to. Like I said, a great OPTION along with the remote locking bags. Not stock but they could call it the Option package filled with a mix of stuff including a loud horn.

I am certainly not opposed to having options.  But I think Kawasaki (and the dealers) found it too difficult to stage different sub-models, especially for the Concours, which is not a big seller (neither is the ZX).  Just like they have so few color options for the same reason- dealers will complain bitterly when stuck with the "wrong" (non-selling) variant.  The example was the ABS vs non-ABS.... they gave up pretty quickly and just make ABS standard.   Of course, it might just be that the non-ABS sales were dismal.

Although they have TONS of edge on BMW, their price point competition will always be with Yamaha and Honda.   So you probably won't see the price pull much head of either of their top-end bikes.

[Rick Hall]

De-tune of the day...

De tune. Good one, Jim

[Cuda]

De-tune of the day...

http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE

REALLY!
Nude sex movie's
We want more 

[martin_14]

As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned.  In no way, shape or fashion.  That implies it was...

(Max repeating himself because... no idea... he has a keyboard...)

(more of the same)

(and still more of the same)

...highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.

So: no drivy ZX?

[just gone]

    As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned.  In no way, shape or fashion.  That implies it was...

    (Max repeating himself because... no idea... he has a keyboard...)

    (more of the same)

    (and still more of the same)

    ...highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.

You're a funny guy Martin. 

[martin_14]

You're a funny guy Martin. 

I do mean to put it humorously, but I seriously wonder if Max drove the ZX-14.

We can throw dictionaries at each other the whole day but when there are different versions of an engine it's customary to speak of detuned versions for the less powerful variants. In that line, the C14's engine is precisely that. The fact that it offers (not always, but in this case it does) advantages like reliability, fuel economy or whatever, is what drives the engineers to do it. But whoever tries the ZX-14 will notice immediately that it packs so, so much power that a passenger, luggage and, heck! why not a caravan, pose no challenge.

Even more: that praised VVT offering extra torque on the C14 is worthless when you have as much power as a ZX-14 does. Nobody who drove a ZX-14 can even think that there's any shortage of torque (unlike a liter bike, which has the same peak power but you have to find it; instead, 1400cc push everywhere in the rev range). Why the C14 has VVT is still a mystery to me, other than the obvious marketing value; a bit like KI-PASS. The only way to know would be to have 2 identical engines, one with and one without VVT, to try and compare. Since we don't have the second, I tried the next thing: the ZX-14. I can tell you this: it doesn't need VVT.

Max made a very good point (if he didn't talk so much) a while ago when he mentioned that the reliability in a ZX-14 is secondary, since the "life expectancy" of those machines is rather short, at least shorter than of a C14. Looking at the second hand bikes confirms this. ZX-14s with more than 25 thousand miles are rare, although it's an older model than the C14, of which I see many with over 50 thousand miles and we all know that such an engine is barely broken in.

[d04011]

My C-14 with Steve's flash offers exceptional performance but my stock ZX-14R is at another level of performance entirely.  Kawasaki didn't leave much on the table performance-wise with the ZX-14R. 

I am not really concerned regarding longevity on the ZX-14R since I will not be riding it as much as the C-14 but when I do...  Oh yeah!

[maxtog]

I do mean to put it humorously, but I seriously wonder if Max drove the ZX-14.

It is certainly OK to ask, although I don't think it is relevant.  No, I haven't.  But I don't need to...

Saying the ZX-14 has lots of power- power here, power there, although very true, doesn't change my stance.  I can just as easily say the ZX-14 is a de-tuned C14.  It was de-tuned in reliability performance, and de-tuned comfort performance, etc at the expense of gaining acceleration performance.  Silly, isn't it?  But just as valid a construct.  But try saying that on a ZX forum and see how they like it.  It is not a matter of "tuning", it is "design".  "De" indicates "removed" or "removal" or such, combined with "tuned", it pretty clearly implies intentional or accidental inferiority.  The C14 engine isn't inferior, it does what it was designed to do quite well.  You, and perhaps others, might not appreciate or understand all that Kawasaki did with the C14 (some things I don't understand, myself), and that is OK, but that doesn't mean it was without valid purpose.

Do you really think Kawasaki designed and implemented an expensive VVT for the C14 (and ONLY the C14) as just a marketing gimmick??  And although not really about the engine, KI-Pass is not a marketing gimmick, it contains perfectly useful and valid features.  Some might not like them, both others love those features.  Personally, I love not having to fiddle with keys and just keeping a fob in my pocket (is it worth all the complexity...that is a good question, but a different topic).

It would have been much easier and cheaper for Kawasaki to have identical engines in both bikes.  There are good reasons they didn't.  They didn't make those changes to cause the Concours not perform well and the ZX shine in comparison;  they created two different engines with different sets of performance goals, both performing their roles very well.

As for performance, I will end with the relevant Webster's definition, which I think fits really well:

"The manner in which or the efficiency with which something reacts or fulfills its intended purpose."

[tbanzer]

De nutted

[maxtog]

sigh

[O.C.]

I owned one of the early ZZR 1400 which I bought new in 2006/7

It was a great bike with 190PS available (200PS with RAM Air)

I exchanged it for the newly released GTR1400 (Concourse) in 2009.

The ZZR was a missile and much faster than the GTR, a comparison I was able to make back to back. the ZZR 1400 gave me arms like an Orangutan and a neck like a Giraffe, plus it hurt my back   

The GTR basically used the proven ZZR 1400 engine which featured modifications to provide a more usable power for a Sports Touring bike, and at its launch the U.K motorcycle press described the much awaited GTR as having a de-tuned ZZR engine

We are only splitting hairs and it really isn't important as after all the GTR or Connie is a superb bike 

[martin_14]

It is certainly OK to ask, although I don't think it is relevant.  No, I haven't.  But I don't need to...

Saying the ZX-14 has lots of power- power here, power there, although very true, doesn't change my stance.

Don't worry. For those of us that have been here for a while, we never expected you do such thing. And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post.

The GTR basically used the proven ZZR 1400 engine which featured modifications to provide a more usable power for a Sports Touring bike, and at its launch the U.K motorcycle press described the much awaited GTR as having a de-tuned ZZR engine

We are only splitting hairs and it really isn't important as after all the GTR or Connie is a superb bike.

That sums it up rather nicely. My bike has reached the 128000 km / 79500 miles and only the brakes are bugging me, as in getting-old-and-need-trouble-shooting bugging me, and only because I'm a bit of an overexcited, Alps carving idiot who forgets that this is not a pure bred sports bike and punished those brakes a lot. If my mechanic doesn't find what's wrong with it, I know what I will replace my 1400GTR with, just like the OP did. That's one of the few upsides of living in Germany: they look after their machines, so I won't have any qualms buying a low mileage, second hand unit at a good price.

[just gone]

...... when there are different versions of an engine it's customary to speak of detuned versions for the less powerful variants. In that line, the C14's engine is precisely that.

I'm going with this 

I'm not saying that max' doesn't have a point, he does, over and over and over  ....but traditionally or customarily I agree with what martin says above.

And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post.

No you aren't. ..I think you enjoyed saying that. 

[maxtog]

Don't worry. For those of us that have been here for a while, we never expected you do such thing.

Then you know me less that you think, since I am quite readily willing to change my stance on all kinds of things when I see a logical/compelling argument or digest new information about a topic.  I understand others' stances in this case (and better now than when it started), but I still disagree.  And it is OK to disagree; and I respect others' well-founded opinions.  What I don't respect is when people turn things into popularity contests or personal attacks.  Hasn't been too bad with this thread, thankfully.  But do feel free to try and speak for everyone who has "been here a while."

" And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post."

And I'm not sorry to say that I am neither surprised nor phased.  But I can say that I have learned new things in the discussion (those parts that actually were discussion) and hope others have, too.  That really is one of the main purposes of having discussions on forums in the first place.