Hating the Stock Exhaust

[BigEdPVD]

Haven't done anything with the mapping yet, but, the next stop will be to Shoodabeen engineering. 

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Look, effectively there's not going to be any difference in flow on all the major slipons out there, providing they have the average 2" core. All this other stuff about what slipon is best is arguing minutiae.

  When I changed the stock muffler to an area p slip on (borrowed), I noticed a SLIGHT sharpness in throttle response. SLIGHT. And all of the factory jetting is to rich, so a slip on without tuning is still to rich. BTW, I know what I'm talking about... I have datalogged hours of ride date with a WB02.

  There's a place where SOP dyno's just aren't going to notice a difference. it's hard to tell a couple HP, particularly at higher rpm.

  Keep in mind that I can gain / lose 3 hp on my bike by doing absolutely nothing but changing the dyno readings from SAE to STD.  Dyno work, for the uninitiated is a big game, and y'all are playing right into it.

  Back when drag racing was king, there was a saying "win on sunday, sell on monday". That's been replaced by dyno charts. Post up big dyno numbers and you'll sell product. Never mind that that info doesn't tell you anything about the real world manners or the engine, you NEED those extra 3 hp at 9000, right?  And that slip on only costs 500.00 so hey, that's a good deal, right? 

  Steve

[DaddyFlip]

I think it's a good deal. Even though I might not notice shedding 15 pounds on a 700lb bike (2%), in my mind it HAS to be a good thing. That OE can was a pig; still is a pig sitting in my office. Bike looks better with the smaller, sleeker, CF shell can. Bike HAS to be breathing better because of the increased exhaust pressure that can be felt from several feet away. Right? Bike sounds better. I didn't think I would care about this since I don't care for loud bikes and didn't want to ruin quiet cruising. But mine is the best of both worlds; has a great tone when accelerating but is still quiet when cruising. Pipe is a nice little accessory that makes me feel good. I bought the flash before the pipe, so I... am safe.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

 BTW, to those of you with slipons and my flash, who have that nice decel rumble rather than multiple loud firecracker pops on deceleration... you're welcome     Steve

[martin_14]

I actually like the decel pop, it's more like a burble/rumble on my bike.

+1
I love the nice decel pop/burble/rumble thingy going on. I kept the baffle on (TÜV wouldn't allow otherwise) on my Remus.

[PlaynInPeoria]

My Speed Triple has the Triumph OEM/aftermarket high pipes with "Triumph" etched on them, with the flash specifically for them.  There are multiple flashes to choose from and this one runs perfect and has just the right amount of backtalk when you roll off the throttle.  That triple rumbling and popping occasionally is the best engine sound ever, it just states quite clearly its level of power, that it's not to be messed with.  I like the C14 with the slipon when it's on song and pulling hard, but on decel, there is no better sound than that S3.  I get compliments on it all the time.

[smokin]

Look, effectively there's not going to be any difference in flow on all the major slipons out there, providing they have the average 2" core. All this other stuff about what slipon is best is arguing minutiae.

  When I changed the stock muffler to an area p slip on (borrowed), I noticed a SLIGHT sharpness in throttle response. SLIGHT. And all of the factory jetting is to rich, so a slip on without tuning is still to rich. BTW, I know what I'm talking about... I have datalogged hours of ride date with a WB02.

  There's a place where SOP dyno's just aren't going to notice a difference. it's hard to tell a couple HP, particularly at higher rpm.

  Keep in mind that I can gain / lose 3 hp on my bike by doing absolutely nothing but changing the dyno readings from SAE to STD.  Dyno work, for the uninitiated is a big game, and y'all are playing right into it.

  Back when drag racing was king, there was a saying "win on sunday, sell on monday". That's been replaced by dyno charts. Post up big dyno numbers and you'll sell product. Never mind that that info doesn't tell you anything about the real world manners or the engine, you NEED those extra 3 hp at 9000, right?  And that slip on only costs 500.00 so hey, that's a good deal, right? 

  Steve

So Steve from the above information am I correct in assuming that the original factory fuel mapping is to rich with the standard muffler,and going past maximum power air/fuel ratio,that a slip on does not lean off the mixture at all,that it only creates another concern by reducing back pressure?
Please forgive my ignorance but I am just and old mechanic from back in the carby days.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

So Steve from the above information am I correct in assuming that the original factory fuel mapping is to rich with the standard muffler,and going past maximum power air/fuel ratio,that a slip on does not lean off the mixture at all,that it only creates another concern by reducing back pressure?
Please forgive my ignorance but I am just and old mechanic from back in the carby days.

  alright, let's use some critical thinking, if a slipon only gains a very small increase in power, then do you think the stock muffler is the main impediment to exhaust flow? Steve

[maxtog]

  alright, let's use some critical thinking, if a slipon only gains a very small increase in power, then do you think the stock muffler is the main impediment to exhaust flow? Steve

We have both said it perhaps a dozen times now.  The stock muffler performs very well and is not a significant restriction point when using the stock headers and pipes.  It is sized correctly for the rest of the exhaust system.  Replacing it does nothing significant for performance on the C14; it is a cosmetic change only (looks/sound/weight).

If one wants to reduce restriction/back-pressure, it requires replacing the exhaust system (not just one part of it), and THAT will require a change in the fuel injection maps/programming (and on the C14, it can deliver significant performance improvements).

[smokin]

Cause you have Maxtog, that answer will do me.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

      I haven't posted much about this anywhere, but I built a small diameter long tube header on my 09 that had CRAZY low / mid rpm power. I was looking at the dyno chart from it last night, it had over 90# TQ at 3000rpm with my flash . 3000rpm... and pulled over 100#TQ at 6000 rpm. It did not get the same top hp as the area p... but it did get to 148.xx with a 2" diameter slipon (2 bros) . For comparison my bike stock had about 70# @ 3000, and 82# @ 3000 after the flash.

  So it's obvious that the stock header is the impediment to power. Maxtog states it properly when he says the stock muffler is properly sized for the flow of the stock head pipe. Steve

[DaddyFlip]

It may be properly sized on the inside, but the outskirts could use some work.

[R1Brian]

      I haven't posted much about this anywhere, but I built a small diameter long tube header on my 09 that had CRAZY low / mid rpm power. I was looking at the dyno chart from it last night, it had over 90# TQ at 3000rpm with my flash . 3000rpm... and pulled over 100#TQ at 6000 rpm. It did not get the same top hp as the area p... but it did get to 148.xx with a 2" diameter slipon (2 bros) . For comparison my bike stock had about 70# @ 3000, and 82# @ 3000 after the flash.

  So it's obvious that the stock header is the impediment to power. Maxtog states it properly when he says the stock muffler is properly sized for the flow of the stock head pipe. Steve

Apples to oranges I know, but back in my Yamaha days, the EXUP valve was huge to rideability, low, and mid range power and torque. My 99 was a lot more fun to drive before I did a full system, but it did pick up 15 plus HP up top. My 04 was similiar, but that engine along with adding FI had a totally different power band. I chased dyno numbers for years, and I think useable power, and torque where its needed is where its at. I would be way excited to add 20 ft # especially down low. I havent had my Kawi long, but I definitely want to do the flash just for whats mentioned above.