Just a touch of bother with the clutch...

[VirginiaJim]

This has happened twice with me this year and I'm not sure what's causing it..

Got on the bike Sunday morning to go visit a client.  The clutch lever has quite a bit of 'loose play' in it and the engagement point is very close to the bar.  It cleared itself up in a few miles.  I had parked the bike on the side stand for a few days before this.  I'm wondering if there is an air bubble in it or some trapped debris.  I'm going to bleed it and see what happens.  It needs to be done as I haven't bled it in awhile.

[gPink]

When this moving engagement point happened on mine I found it was dirt in the master return hole. I filled the master and held the vac hose right down on the piston and gently pumped the lever as the vac sucked the fluid of the bottom.

[VirginiaJim]

Master return hole?  So many ways to go with this....  Resisting.... 

I only see one hole port in the bottom of the reservoir.   Is that what you are talking about?  And man, the left side of the reservoir has so much crap in it.  I've got to get that out first.

[gPink]

  That post left a lot of openings didn't it. Yes that's the hole port.

Maybe I should just rewrite the whole post. 

[VirginiaJim]

Please, no.  I much prefer it this way...

Anyway, back to the subject at hand.  Got all the crap out and wiped the reservoir clean but left enough to keep the hole closed.  I had a half bottle of Kwackers brake fluid (black container) and started filling again.  Holy s**t!  It had black crap in it as well.  Cleaned out the reservoir again and opened another K sealed bottle I had on hand.  It was clear fluid.  So the old bottle deteriorated once it was opened.  Never seen that before.

Bled the clutch and at least I've done no harm..I think.  Shift lever is about where it was before.  Interesting side note...whilst bleeding the clutch and watching the reservoir, I see tiny bubbles coming out of the port.  Not a lot, but some.  I'm thinking that this should not be happening.  It could be that whilst the bike is on the side stand the bubbles are building up and then when upright it takes a few minutes to purge them out of the line.  I'm checking for any leaks along the line to the slave cylinder now.

And for your listening enjoyment

http://youtu.be/t45DKmtzTHo

[Sgt Mac]

And for your listening enjoyment

http://youtu.be/t45DKmtzTHo

I have walked many a mile to this.

[B.D.F.]

Mine has done this quite a few times; the change in engagement point in the clutch travel is due to the temperature of the engine. The base problem is air in the system. And the only reliable fix I have found is to power bleed the system and get all the air out of it.

Brian

This has happened twice with me this year and I'm not sure what's causing it..

Got on the bike Sunday morning to go visit a client.  The clutch lever has quite a bit of 'loose play' in it and the engagement point is very close to the bar.  It cleared itself up in a few miles.  I had parked the bike on the side stand for a few days before this.  I'm wondering if there is an air bubble in it or some trapped debris.  I'm going to bleed it and see what happens.  It needs to be done as I haven't bled it in awhile.

[VirginiaJim]

But where is it coming from?  I don't see any leaks.  The only thing I think it might be is the master cylinder.

[connie_rider]

Mine has done this quite a few times; the change in engagement point in the clutch travel is due to the temperature of the engine. The base problem is air in the system. And the only reliable fix I have found is to power bleed the system and get all the air out of it.  Brian

Is there a power bleeder available? (that works on a bike_
I used to have 1 that fit on top of an automotive master cylinder/reservoir.
Worked great!!!! 
(But I doubt it would have worked on top of a plastic/remote reservoir).

I guess, (conceivably) you could pump fluid in from the calipers?

Ride safe, Ted

[VirginiaJim]

I think we're talking about two different things, Brian.  Mine appears to happen stone cold and then gets better as the bike is ridden.  Aren't you talking about the engagement changing for the worse when the bike heats up?

I'm seeing air bubbles in the master cylinder as I engage the lever.  That smells like master cylinder to me.  I don't see any leaks.  I'm wondering if getting a seal kit is worth it or just get a new cylinder?

[gPink]

Bleeding the master cylinder doesn't help?

[VirginiaJim]

It wasn't 'bad' to begin with.  This past Sunday I rode it and when I first started out there was quite a bit of 'play' in the lever.  After a few miles it was ok.  This has happened twice this year.  I haven't bled it in awhile so I decided to get that done today.  What I didn't like seeing was bubbles coming out of the hole as I pressed in the lever.  It smells like a worn master cylinder to me.  No change in the lever after bleeding but it was fine at the start of the process and fine afterwards....thank goodness. 

[B.D.F.]

Yes but the vacuum type; what you are talking about is a positive pressure bleeder. And you <could> use that on the reserviors of a C-14 with some adaptation but I would not do that- too much risk of spraying fluid all over the place (Easy Boys! I meant brake fluid!).

Some people claim they can / have / do power bleed from the bottom up (Boys!) but when I have tried to do that, it always made a mess because brake fluid leaks all around the bleeder screw threads, then onto the rotor, axles, the floor, etc.

A relatively inexpensive ($75 from a brand name co., maybe $25 from Harbor Frieght) power vacuum bleeder works well, will remove ALL the air in a C-14's hydraulic systems, and only requires compressed air to operate.

Brian

Is there a power bleeder available? (that works on a bike_
I used to have 1 that fit on top of an automotive master cylinder/reservoir.
Worked great!!!! 
(But I doubt it would have worked on top of a plastic/remote reservoir).

I guess, (conceivably) you could pump fluid in from the calipers?

Ride safe, Ted

[B.D.F.]

Nope, I think we are talking about the same thing. As to where does the air come from- it comes by the seals in the master and slave cylinders, but mostly the slave cylinder. You do not have a fluid leak because brake fluid is much thicker than air and so the leak mechanism is air being drawn into the system rather than fluid being expelled. All vehicle hydraulic systems suffer from this to some degree but the clutch on motorcycles is especially susceptible to the problem.

I assume by master cylinder you mean the reservoir 'cause you cannot see inside the master cylinder as it is all metal. ?? If you mean the reservoir, then no, there should not be bubbles in there. If possible, power bleed the system and I betcha' all will be well.

Brian

I think we're talking about two different things, Brian.  Mine appears to happen stone cold and then gets better as the bike is ridden.  Aren't you talking about the engagement changing for the worse when the bike heats up?

I'm seeing air bubbles in the master cylinder as I engage the lever.  That smells like master cylinder to me.  I don't see any leaks.  I'm wondering if getting a seal kit is worth it or just get a new cylinder?

[KevinRLi]

I've had / am still having similar issues. Went by Roger Mercer's place and he power bled the clutch from both top and bottom bleed nipples. He took it for a test ride and said his clutch feels the same. I still thin kit's engaging way too high. Not getting any spillage though. Also stopped by my Kawa dealer and he noticed the clutch wasn't disengaging fully. It wasn't releasing all the way. his answer. WD40 to the clutch lever mechanism. It did allow the handle to come back fully. When I got home I cleaned it all out properly and now the clutch is feeling somewhat better. Still happens once in a while though.

[B.D.F.]

Another thing that will greatly change the feel of the clutch is the pivot point; all that I have seen are dry (no lube) and most are showing some corrosion. Cleaning the pivot pin and adding a bit of grease usually makes a world of difference in how the clutch feels. By the way, this also applies to the front brake, back brake and shifter lever also; all should be taken apart, cleaned and lubed about once a year IMO. The whole thing can be done in 1/2 hour and a lot of the time it results in a bike that seems 10 years newer. Oh, and by the way, lube the pivot (contact) pin on both the clutch and brake levers also- they get a fair amount of road grime built up in there and again, always seem to lack lube.

Brian

I've had / am still having similar issues. Went by Roger Mercer's place and he power bled the clutch from both top and bottom bleed nipples. He took it for a test ride and said his clutch feels the same. I still thin kit's engaging way too high. Not getting any spillage though. Also stopped by my Kawa dealer and he noticed the clutch wasn't disengaging fully. It wasn't releasing all the way. his answer. WD40 to the clutch lever mechanism. It did allow the handle to come back fully. When I got home I cleaned it all out properly and now the clutch is feeling somewhat better. Still happens once in a while though.

[Spanky]

always seem to lack lube.

Brian

That is an unacceptable pin situation for sure!

[Sgt Mac]

Lube gives it a better feel...got it.   

[KevinRLi]

I'm a bit disappointed. I mention nipples and everyone is talking about lubed shafts! 

[B.D.F.]

Hey, I am just trying on the position of 'straight man' like most of you usually do for me. I have not decided if I like it or not yet....

And yep, you can work this post a little bit too- more 'straight mannery' for everyone.

 

Brian