Aarggh - Rust In Tank!

[C14_Rider]

Happy Memorial Day to all, I hope you’re all out enjoying riding.

I was an occasional contributor here some years back, but for reasons there’s no need to go into here, have been unable to ride my 2008 C14 for coming up on 6 years.  For reasons I cannot defend, the bike sat covered and on a battery tender, unstarted, for that time, except for the last year and a half when the battery tender was disconnected.

I wanted to bring it to life again, so I washed it, bought and installed a new battery, a new FOB battery, and changed the oil and oil filter.  The last step was to siphon out the old gas and fill it with fresh gas and maybe a dose of Sea Foam.  When I opened the fuel cap, I was appalled to see no gas, only serious rust (not just surface rust), and got a powerful dose of varnish odor.  I thought I had filled the tank after my last ride, but looking back at my fuel records spreadsheet, it seems my last fill-up was about 90 miles prior to the mileage the odometer currently shows, so it may have been around 2 gallons down when I parked it.  And with evaporation, I’m not sure how much “fluid” is there now, although the gas gauge shows all but the one top segment (but of course I don’t know if the fuel gauge is working at this point).

There’s no need to bash me at this point, I’m doing that to myself more than enough, thank you.  A new tank will set me back around $800, so I have quite an incentive to see if I can successfully remove the rust.  I know this is commonly done in the restoration of older bikes and cars, but I have no experience at it.  I searched for an existing post about this here and didn’t find anything, I hope that’s because I’m the first to be so stupid.

Googling “rusty motorcycle tank” gives a number of novel solutions.  No, I’m not going to add nuts and bolts or sand to the tank and try to tumble it wrapped in blankets in the dryer.  I don’t think it would fit anyway.  There are suggestions and demos of soaking the inside in various chemicals, including muriatic acid, phosphoric acid, white vinegar, apple cider vinegar, and products like Metal Rescue, WD40 Rust Remover Soak, or Evapo-Rust, which all sound similar from what I can tell.  YouTube videos make all of the last 3 look very effective, and they are non-toxic water-based (and don’t stink like vinegar…)

Do any of you have actual experience dealing with internal tank rust on any bike?  I’d appreciate your advice and observations.  TIA.

[gPink]

Ebay is your friend. Look also for a zx14 tank which is the same except for (I think) two tabs which have to be removed. Also fuel pump/filter.

[gPink]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Gas-Tanks-/35563/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=concours+14+fuel+tank&_vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=concours+14+fuel+tank&_vxp=mtr&_osacat=35563&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xzx+14+fuel+tank.TRS0&_nkw=zx14+fuel+tank&_sacat=35563

[Deziner]

There was a NICE used tank on Ebay for cheap on Friday. If it's really that bad, it might be worth a look. It's really hard to say what course of action I would take since I can't see how bad your idea of bad is. can you post a pic?

[Deziner]

My bad.    I posted before reading the other posts.

[VirginiaJim]

Remember that there is the fuel pump inside the tank as well and that is probably gunked up.  You may want to at least replace the filter no matter what you do but the innards of the pump may be gummed all to heck and back.. Not a good situation.

[C14_Rider]

It's really hard to say what course of action I would take since I can't see how bad your idea of bad is. can you post a pic?

Pic attached.

[Rembrant]

Do any of you have actual experience dealing with internal tank rust on any bike?  I’d appreciate your advice and observations.  TIA.

I've done the vinegar thing a couple times with good results....however, they were tanks on carbed bikes, and removing and cleaning the petcock was a bit simpler than cleaning out the fuel pump in an EFI tank.

Something else to consider is that there are two small steel lines inside your tank...one is the vent, and the other is the overflow line for fill-up spillage. They are thin and if the tank is rusty, so are those lines...and they will leak pretty easily. It's not the end of the world, but just be aware of them. It wouldn't hurt to look in there with a small mirror or something to see if they're ok...IF you can get the tank cleaned out.

Another thing is the engine...you can get rust in the cylinders as well, and a little ridge of rust around the rings will make that thing feel like it's seized solid. For anything that's been sitting for long periods of time (years) I usually pull the plugs and spray some fogging oil in there first, and then manually rotate the engine a couple times.

Good luck with it, and I'm sure it will work just fine once you get that tank sorted out. I don't think anybody on this site will bash you for your situation, and if they do, they're jerks. Nobody needs to know why the bike was parked the way it was.

Rem

[Deziner]

Yep, that's bad. I would seriously consider a different tank. The only other option I could see is taking it to a radiator shop and having it "cooked out". That is submerging the tank in a VERY hot tank of a caustic solution. It will come out absolutely spotless bare metal. Inside and out. Obviously, you would remove the fuel pump etc. beforehand. A high quality rattle can paint job or a Maaco job would be a cost effective way to go.

A used tank would probably be best. Crap. I'm sorry you have to go through this. Best of luck to you. Keep us updated....

[AlbertaDoug]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Gas-Tanks-/35563/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=concours+14+fuel+tank&_vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=concours+14+fuel+tank&_vxp=mtr&_osacat=35563&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xzx+14+fuel+tank.TRS0&_nkw=zx14+fuel+tank&_sacat=35563

I'm going to have to side with gPink and Deziner on this a used tank is the best approach then rebuild your fuel pump.
Hope everything goes well for ya.

[C14_Rider]

Well, I understand that that is where I may end up.  But I'll have to R & R the tank/fuel pump in any event, so it seems a waste to not at least try some rust removal strategy. not much to lose I think.  My tank is like absolutely brand new, not a scratch.  All those on ebay are dented & damaged if you look closely.  Thanks for the comment about the vinegar.  Has anyone had success with any of the 3 products I mentioned?

[stevewfl]

I used this in my track bike tank.  it was a horrid case of rust, the prior owner had let the bike sit with the tank empty. this stuff was a dream come true. I had assumed I'd be scrapping that tank it was so bad.

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html

[maxtog]

I used this in my track bike tank.  it was a horrid case of rust, the prior owner had let the bike sit with the tank empty. this stuff was a dream come true. I had assumed I'd be scrapping that tank it was so bad.

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html

It almost looks too good to be true, but most of the Amazon reviews are high:  http://www.amazon.com/POR-15-49229-Cycle-Tank-Repair/dp/B00J5947ME sounds like a possible solution!

[stevewfl]

^^^worked great for me.  My tank was rough!

[jwh20]

As bad as it looks, I'd give some of the "home" remedies a chance.  They might just work and save you a lot of money.  My concern with the "Ebay tanks" are that they are almost always from wrecks and almost always dented.  A professional repair and paint job will make it almost like new but that will set you back a few hundred dollars.

I've heard of the "nuts and bolts" agitation method but the C14 tank is really thin and I'm sure this would dent.  But a combination of some etch-ant like vinegar or other acid, some media like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Pellets-LLC-Stainless-Steel-Tumbling/dp/B009NK85YG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1432639335&sr=8-4&keywords=stainless+steel+tumbler+media

and some agitation, even if you have to do it by hand, will surely clean out the rust.  Once you get the rust cleaned you can evaluate if the tank is still salvageable - my bet is that it is - and continue from there.  One of those tank coating products may be useful here.  I've heard good reports of this sort of product:

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-gas-tank-sealer-kits-for-cycles.html?fee=7&fep=1079&adpos=1o1&creative=61491481260&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&SRCCODE=GA220010&gclid=CjwKEAjws5CrBRD8ze702_2dyjYSJAAAJK9yE4Evs1QLY4Po6yJ5Etx6dy6sklpPSXg27YpmdFlrKRoCmVDw_wcB

Your fuel pump may or may not be messed up.  It depends on how much fuel was sitting inside it.  But since you have to remove it to fix the tank, it will be a simple matter to check it.  If it runs and pumps you may be in luck.  Almost certainly the pickup sock/filter needs to be replaced but that's an easy job and the cost is minimal.  Worst case you can find used fuel pumps on Ebay.

My guess is that it looks worse than it is and once you get into cleaning it out, it will start looking pretty good in a hurry.

[MAN OF BLUES]

do NOT attempt to clean with acids of any kind. Vinigar ain't gonna clean that either.
POR 15 stuff works great, problem is the rust converter they have is in a quart bottle, and you need a lot more than a quart, because of where the rust actually is in your tank. likely every surface below the fuel level should be ok, you need to pull the tank and remove the pump to see inside.
all you work is going to be from the bottom, thru that big hole....

I would however use the POR rust converter after using electrolysis to remove the major rust. the POR stuff turns rust into a phosphate coating, and prepares it for using the POR tank coating product, which you will now need anyway, as it has rusted once already.

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Metal-Prep_p_15.html

heres the complete kit, but it has the small bottle of converter..
http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Motorcycle-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit-_p_106.html

the actual coating should have enough in that kit, I did my KZ tank, 3+ gallon tank, and by rolling the tank around to fully coat it, when I drained the remainder out I had almost half a can extra.

it will also convert rust, but the way yours looks... it will need a lot, and will need to sit and slosh and sit again.
The metal prep product is reusable, so don't pour it out, it lasts a long time if it's not completely contaminated...

I'm going thru this right now with a friend and COGr on ADV who is restoring a tank right this second using a method I posted over a year ago...

this works....
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15531.msg189401;topicseen#msg189401

for a tank, you are gonna need to use big pieces of rebar, with rubber stoppers on either end creating a barbell looking probe, to keep it from shorting out on the innernsurface of the tank. this process takes time, but works amazingly...

read the process, and adapt it accordingly.... the positive lead goes to the scarificial rod, tyhe negative to the tank....

here's a pictorial and instructions ifound specific to bike tanks, I never saw it when I was doing my parts, but it shows some tips...
http://m.instructables.com/id/Electrolysis-rust-removal-motorbike-fuel-tank/

best of luck...
I a do it yourselfer, I'd personally do the stuff I noted before popping big $$

[maxtog]

I would however use the POR rust converter after using electrolysis to remove the major rust.

That is a neat thread I had not seen.  But wouldn't that method pose a risk to the painted tank surface?  Or are you thinking one could just do the electrolysis INSIDE the tank, without actually submerging the tank?

[MAN OF BLUES]

That is a neat thread I had not seen.  But wouldn't that method pose a risk to the painted tank surface?  Or are you thinking one could just do the electrolysis INSIDE the tank, without actually submerging the tank?

you don't submerge the gastank, you reverse the application, and fill the tank with the solution, and place the sacraficial rod into the solution to pull the rust from the inner surface while allowing the iron molecules to migrate back to the tank surface.
check the second link i noted as for using with a fuel tank.

oh, the solution is absolutely harmless, it is only water and washing soda.

[stevewfl]

MOB, the POR 15 "Motorcycle specific" kit doesn't use a "rust converter" or whatever you are referring too.  It saved my tank in 3 stages, none of them "converting" to anything.

POR-15® Motorcycle Fuel Tank Repair Kit have been designed for the special needs of bikes and other small fuel tanks such as recreational vehicles, snowmobiles, outboards, generators, etc.

Each Kit Contains:

    POR-15® Cleaner Degreaser to remove gum, sludge, varnish
    POR-15® Metal Prep to remove rust & prepare tank for sealer
    POR-15® Fuel Tank Sealer creates a permanently sealed tank
    DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS to take you easily through each step of tank restoration

When you guys finish pinching pennies and speculating and guessing products, there's a simple, cheap, and quick solution that worked very well on my stuff





This, or see avatar bike for the results I got 

[MAN OF BLUES]

MOB, the POR 15 "Motorcycle specific" kit doesn't use a "rust converter" or whatever you are referring too.  It saved my tank in 3 stages, none of them "converting" to anything.

POR-15® Motorcycle Fuel Tank Repair Kit have been designed for the special needs of bikes and other small fuel tanks such as recreational vehicles, snowmobiles, outboards, generators, etc.

Each Kit Contains:

    POR-15® Cleaner Degreaser to remove gum, sludge, varnish
    POR-15® Metal Prep to remove rust & prepare tank for sealer
    POR-15® Fuel Tank Sealer creates a permanently sealed tank
    DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS to take you easily through each step of tank restoration

When you guys finish pinching pennies and speculating and guessing products, there's a simple, cheap, and quick solution that worked very well on my stuff





This, or see avatar bike for the results I got 

whatever you say Steve...
I've been using POR system for over 12 years, I am very well aware of how it works, no speculation or guessing on my part here, that's why I referred him to use it..
I've done numerous tanks and parts with it..
read step 2 C-l-o-s-e-l-y......

the metalprep product does the conversion.....

i've used this metal prep from them for almost 12 years...on all sorts of steel parts...
drop them in, wait, rinse well, dry, and paint.. there will be no rust in the metalprep solution, so therefore I consider it a conversion...

my suggestions on doing the electrolysys thing was because of the huge amount of rust in areas you simply will never be able to see the progress of inside there, and I know that works also as I have done it, and it's amazingly simple, and works...
you still need to do the metal prep and sealer tho.