Wire size... Help!

[sailor_chic]

http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php?pid=2#board

This is a simple drawing. I am obviously going to have to add a switch to activate the lights.

[Deziner]

Ok. I see what you have going on.  The Fuzeblok thing certainly has its place.

You could run a 12ga or 14ga wire to Bat+, the same to a good ground point on the frame, and pick up a switched HOT (I'll just use HOT to indicate positive throughout)  wherever you like.  Since the switched HOT is the trigger lead for the internal relay, it can be a small wire. (18-20 ga). There is one of those located on each side of your fairing, inboard of the mirror. It should be a black wire in close proximity to a black wire with a yellow tracer. Or if its easier, locate a different switched HOT wire and use it.

Run a wire from the Fuzeblok output to a switch (15 amp min), anorher from the other switch terminal to the HOT wireof your light, run another wire from the NEG wire of yyour light to a good frame ground.

Install a 15amp fuse in the appropriate location in the Fuzeblok and you should have lights.

[sailor_chic]

IMO, This Fuzeblock is a well designed little device. It should be for $90. Not all these power block devices are the same. That is why I paid special attention with the spelling and capitalization when I referred to it. So one needs to pay attention when they are starting up that backhoe.
I am going to run 10g from the battery, both leads to the block. I want the least amount of resistance going to my distribution point.

[B.D.F.]

HA! I am in the same boat but the other way: we were in TN this past summer at a motorcycle event and I spent a fair amount of time hiding in the foyer and when that got too warm (too many people, main doors open too often), I hid in my room. Just now coming into MY climate, burning wood 24/7 and enjoying the hell out of it :-)

Do not apologize- you have nothing to apologize for. We are all equal here, simply exchanging information and having a few chuckles. And we are all learning, all the time; we may be at different levels on different subjects (all of us, not you and I) but no one I have ever met yet has all the knowledge.

And yep, my mistake: I was thinking of a fuze for one light alone.... for two lights, 15 amps would be what I would use. In fact, all my suggestions have been for one light and are all incorrect.

So let's start all over again from the beginning and see if we (the collective 'we', all those who may contribute) can follow a constructive path:

You have a C-14 and want to mount a pair of 55 watt (each) aux. lights on the front forks. (??).
You have a fuse block but it is not installed yet?
Do you want these lights on all the time, when the high beams come on, or be controlled by a switch?

Some of the things you mention use a LOT of power and <may> present an overload to the fuseblock. The Stebel draws 18 amps if memory serves, and heated clothing can draw a lot of power: my wife and I both have full sets of heated gear (jacket liner, gloves, pants and socks or heated insoles) for winter riding and each set draws about 175 watts. (!!). So the aux. lighting, the Stebel and the heated clothing, depending on how much you plan on using, may prove too big a load for the fuse block.

How much heated clothing do you plan on having (max.)?

Please let me know the brand of fuse block and I will check on how much current it can handle and can then make a reasonable suggestion as to wire size. The Stebel will probably have to be wired seperately from the fuse block so you may want to take care of both wiring tasks while in the battery compartment.

Sorry if you mentioned some of this earlier in the thread but a comprehensive list will absolutely result in a much better set of suggestions- this is the first I have heard of the Stebel or heated clothes and that is VERY different than just a set of aux. lights. It is not a problem, just requires a different approach if all of the devices are known in the beginning.

Brian

My lil brain hurts!!

Yeah, your right about the weather. I think I see that white stuff in your avatar pic. Im far too old to handle that stuff again. When it gets to 50 here in Florida, I'm looking for a way to keep warm.

So here's my thinking..... Run two 10g wires from the battery, one (+), (-), to the Fuzeblock. From the Fuzeblock, wired to turn on when bike is on, relayed (?) supposedly, with a 16g wire to a remote switch, and then down to lights with 16g wire. With a 16g wire returning to Fuzeblock.

If my understanding is correct, I should also be able to connect to this Fuzeblock, my Stebel air horn, and GPS, and have enough space/power for heated clothing. Correct?

Brian, you mentioned fuse's for the lights. With approximate voltage, and using round figures for amps, both lights are around 10 amps.  A 10 amp fuse then required? Or should it be 15?

Please forgive my dumb questions, and I appreciate the help. I am learning as I go as I tend to do things by braille.

[VirginiaJim]

And after all this sinks in...let's talk about networking on a mobile platform.

[gPink]

And after all this sinks in...let's talk about networking on a mobile platform.

Would that not require a smartphone?

[VirginiaJim]

Nope.  We don't need no stinking smartphone.  We're going to do this the hardest way possible...firewall/router/laptop in the topcase, Cat6 cabling, and a dish antenna.  The rider will wear sunglasses and have a full tank of gas and only ride at night.  St. Elmo would be proud.  I'm also thinking Tesla coils at both ends of the bike at a couple hundred thousand volts.

[Leo]

http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php?pid=2#board

This is a simple drawing. I am obviously going to have to add a switch to activate the lights.

Wow that is a pretty fancy piece of electrical accessory.   Mostly any accessory I ever added to a bike or car was just using an inline fuse and a 90's Dodge caravan fuel pump relay.   (cheap, dependable, easy to get, has mounting tab and holds 20 Amps continuous)    That Fuzeblock system looks like you could wire the whole bike through it.  pretty neat.

[gPink]

Nope.  We don't need no stinking smartphone.  We're going to do this the hardest way possible...firewall/router/laptop in the topcase, Cat6 cabling, and a dish antenna.  The rider will wear sunglasses and have a full tank of gas and only ride at night.  St. Elmo would be proud.  I'm also thinking Tesla coils at both ends of the bike at a couple hundred thousand volts.

Sounds like something from a Star Trek episode.

[Deziner]

Is it too late to mention the Dilithium Crystals?

[sailor_chic]

Okay, here it goes... I have this Fuzeblock and intent to install on my C14.
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php

My plans included installing two 55w halogen lights on the forks and wired through this Fuzeblock, and will be on their own switch. I want to be able to use these lights anytime the bike is running, regardless of what my headlights position switch is in. I already have a Stebel installed on my bike, but had some intentions of wiring it into this Fuzeblock also. I will be adding a GPS connection in the near future. My heated clothes is still in the plans, but only planning on a heated vest or jacket.
There, clear as mud!

[gPink]

Is it too late to mention the Dilithium Crystals?

Will they work with the flux capacitor?

[Deziner]

Only up to 16 gigawatts, after that, the death star could be vulnerable to Klingon phasers

[maxtog]

And after all this sinks in...let's talk about networking on a mobile platform.

Eeeew, let's not and pretend we did....

[B.D.F.]

Nope, very clear. OK, this is what I would suggest:

1) leave the Stebel alone. As I said, it draws a lot of current (18 amps) and your fuze block is limited to a total of 30 amps. I would keep it separate as it is already installed and working and would be a LOT of load on the fuze block (more than 1/2 of the fuze block's total capacity, which is 30 amps).

2) Find the switch you want to use and see what it is rated for. Once you find the switch (or if you already have one), pass along the type and name and we can tell you if you need a relay or not; it depends on the rating of the specific switch you will use.

3) For your forward aux. lighting of 55 watts X 2, 14 gauge wire is ample. Always use stranded wire on any vehicle, never solid wire.

4) a 15 amp fuse is what I would use in the fuze block to power up the new lights, and I would use the 'switched' circuit so that when you turn the aux. lights will absolutely turn off (and cannot be turned on) when the ignition is off.

5) A heated jacket liner or heated jacket will be around 77 watts if similar to the older Gerbings (which were on the heavy, high- current side by the way) so a 10 amp circuit will be sufficient for that. If you use 16 gauge wire for the heated clothes, you can increase the fuse size to 15 amps and run all the clothing you want to safely. Either way, no problem wiring the tap for heated clothing to the fuze block in the future.

6) I forgot about Posi- Taps: they are a good alternative to soldering or crimped connectors and require no skill (that is not an insult, just saying that it is a great product with zero learning curve) to use. I still suggest the use of grease on the ends of the wires where you bare them but Posi- Taps will work well.

7) If you need a switched circuit on the bike to tap into for the switched side of the fuze block, let us know and we can let you know the easiest place to pick up a wire on the bike to tap into. Of course the accessory circuit, located both on the front of and under the back of the saddle area will also do fine for this purpose.

So I would suggest you decide where you want to mount (Easy Boys!) the fuze block and we can make valid suggestions from there for successful wiring. By the way, there seems to be an example of how to wire a Fuze Block on a C-14 on the COG and is referenced on the Fuze Block page here: http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php?pid=2#board  As I do not use the COG forum, I have not seen the article so cannot comment on it but it may be worth a look.

I believe this project is well w/in the reach of most C-14 owners and certainly w/in the ability of anyone who has done any house wiring at all whatsoever. With a few suggestions, some common sense (which you obviously have) and a minimum of tools (especially if you go with Posi Taps) this should be a relatively easy 'home' level project.

Brian

Okay, here it goes... I have this Fuzeblock and intent to install on my C14.
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/index.php

My plans included installing two 55w halogen lights on the forks and wired through this Fuzeblock, and will be on their own switch. I want to be able to use these lights anytime the bike is running, regardless of what my headlights position switch is in. I already have a Stebel installed on my bike, but had some intentions of wiring it into this Fuzeblock also. I will be adding a GPS connection in the near future. My heated clothes is still in the plans, but only planning on a heated vest or jacket.
There, clear as mud!

[maxtog]

A heated jacket liner or heated jacket will be around 77 watts if similar to the older Gerbings (which were on the heavy, high- current side by the way)

My old  Widder system II electric vest (which I use all the time) pulls only about 42 watts if used on max.  But I imagine there will be a wide variance in draw depending on model (and mine has no sleeves).  It is good to plan ahead for more load if one wants to add more heated stuff, like chaps or full-jacket.

I forgot about Posi- Taps: they are a good alternative to soldering or crimped connectors and require no skill (that is not an insult, just saying that it is a great product with zero learning curve) to use. I still suggest the use of grease on the ends of the wires where you bare them but Posi- Taps will work well.

I mentioned those earlier!  I have only used them for low-wattage stuff, but I came away from the experience pretty impressed with them.  They were included in the Admore kit.  I see from their site that they offer all kinds of sizes.  http://www.posi-lock.com/posiplug.html  I, personally would tend to use spade connectors though, if it were a project running new wires and connections and such to a Fuseblock and wanted it all done "nicely".   I don't have a Fuseblock type setup, but wish I had started with one.

[sailor_chic]

Brian, Great advice! And no insult was taken with the posi-tap comment. Like I said, I am learning as I go and I am not afraid to try stuff. So finding the best way to complete a project and make sure that it is perfect, is the route that I like to travel.

As per your recommendation, I will leave the Stebel alone.

As far as my placement for the Fuzeblock, I am thinking that I want to devise a way to install it under the right side of fairing. This portion of the project is still in the engineering dept, but at the moment this is my intentions. I know that some install in under the tank, but that seems unrealistic. I have read of others installing it under the seat in what Kawasaki call a tool kit. This is a viable option, but what if I need a tool? LOL! So that is the logic behind my placement under right side of fairing.

Switch... Yes I do have one already. Here is a link for what I have: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K6B78Z8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I plan on mounting this on the left side of fairing, all the way forward. There is a flat spot in front of the compartment that seems like an ideal place for this. I choose this side since the left hand is easier to free up when needed. If I need to, I can put the switch on the right side of the fairing and keep it close the the block.

Now you mentioned 14 gauge wiring for the lights. This seems like 2 size higher than acceptable. I know that smaller is not the optimum for electrical, but I want to stay as small as possible for being able to keep a clean and professional look to this installation. Engineering is still working on how to route and mount these said wires on the fork legs. We I am figuring that I will wrap the positive and negative wires leading down the fork legs in spiral wrap. Securing them at this point is still a mystery.

I have no doubts in my ability to get this project completed. However, electrical is not my strong suit. Yes I can wire stuff, and assemble... yada, yada, yada. But its the sizing and layout for proper operation that is my weakness.

Here are the brackets that I have made and the lights that have caused this thread. The brackets are going to be mounted on the fender screw.

[gPink]

One thing to keep in mind as to placement of the block is ease of access for future additions.

[B.D.F.]

OK, front / right under the main fairing (under the right handlebar end) is a fine place IMO. I too kept the toolkit intact with all the mods. I have done to the bike- not sure why but I did :-)

Wire size: There are two criteria here, the first one is general safety or adequacy. For the short runs on a motorcycle, 18 ga. will suffice for a 10 amp circuit and last forever. The other issue is voltage drop, which for lighting you generally want to minimize so that lights produce as much light as possible. For just under 10 amps, assuming a total wire length of less than 10', I would not use less than 16 gauge wire to keep the lights as bright as possible. Again, 18 ga. would NOT be unsafe or risky, but thicker wire will perform better.

That switch will easily handle the 10 amps the lights will use. Now it becomes a judgement call: if you use a relay, you can drop the wire size WAY down to very small wire- easily 24 gauge between the switch and the relay. Or you could use full size wire (18 ga. minimum, I would use 16 gauge) from the fuze block to the switch to the lights and eliminate the relay. Your choice, neither system is better than the other IMO other than eliminating the relay eliminates a failure point. Also remember, if you do not use a relay, you only have to have one wire to the switch and one wire from the switch to the lights: you do NOT need a pair of wires going through the switch. The ground wire can, and should be IMO, direct from the fuze block to the lights in either case (w/ relay or w/out relay). If you put the switch on the right hand side of the bike, sort of along the path the wire has to take anyway, I would eliminate the relay and wire it directly through the switch.

You can route the wires any way you choose and secure them with wire ties (plastic wire banding) along the way up the forks toward the headstock. When making the jump from the forks (the turning part of the bike) to the frame or headstock (the fixed part of the bike), leave a loop of wire to absorb the movement but make sure it cannot get caught on anything when the front wheel turns. Look at the way Kawasaki (or any other mfg.) did it for an example. In fact, you can string your wire to their wire harness if you like, tying it every few inches along the way.

Seems to me you are well on your way to a successful install. Several of the details we are talking about really are very much 'dealer's choice' so I would not worry about doing it 'wrong' as long as you are w/in acceptable limits, such as wire size.

Brian

Brian, Great advice! And no insult was taken with the posi-tap comment. Like I said, I am learning as I go and I am not afraid to try stuff. So finding the best way to complete a project and make sure that it is perfect, is the route that I like to travel.

As per your recommendation, I will leave the Stebel alone.

As far as my placement for the Fuzeblock, I am thinking that I want to devise a way to install it under the right side of fairing. This portion of the project is still in the engineering dept, but at the moment this is my intentions. I know that some install in under the tank, but that seems unrealistic. I have read of others installing it under the seat in what Kawasaki call a tool kit. This is a viable option, but what if I need a tool? LOL! So that is the logic behind my placement under right side of fairing.

Switch... Yes I do have one already. Here is a link for what I have: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K6B78Z8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I plan on mounting this on the left side of fairing, all the way forward. There is a flat spot in front of the compartment that seems like an ideal place for this. I choose this side since the left hand is easier to free up when needed. If I need to, I can put the switch on the right side of the fairing and keep it close the the block.

Now you mentioned 14 gauge wiring for the lights. This seems like 2 size higher than acceptable. I know that smaller is not the optimum for electrical, but I want to stay as small as possible for being able to keep a clean and professional look to this installation. Engineering is still working on how to route and mount these said wires on the fork legs. We I am figuring that I will wrap the positive and negative wires leading down the fork legs in spiral wrap. Securing them at this point is still a mystery.

I have no doubts in my ability to get this project completed. However, electrical is not my strong suit. Yes I can wire stuff, and assemble... yada, yada, yada. But its the sizing and layout for proper operation that is my weakness.

Here are the brackets that I have made and the lights that have caused this thread. The brackets are going to be mounted on the fender screw.

[B.D.F.]

Yes, and excellent point as well as the ability to change a fuze if needed, on the side of the road.... in the dark.... in the rain, 'cause that is when the fuze block placement will really count.

Had a friend of mine pull into the national rally in TN this last summer with NO HEADLIGHTS because of a blown fuse (aftermarket HID lights) and changing it required removal of the right / center fairing. Very poor placement IMO. He had a dealer do the install and I suggested he go back and have them do the install again.... only better. :-)

Brian

One thing to keep in mind as to placement of the block is ease of access for future additions.