Wire size... Help!

[B.D.F.]

Excellent point, and a good reason to use a relay. Otherwise, I would just use a switch and power the lights directly from it. 55 watts is only about 3 1/2 amps after all. But if using them in a 'always on' mode, I would tap into any circuit on the bike that comes on with the ign. switch and use a relay to power the lights.

Brian

Oh...another thought, if you wanted the lights to be on at all times, then yes, I suppose you could power them through the relay in the on the switched side of the Fuzeblock.

[Leo]

ALL forks show electrical ground....through the head stock bearings.   The 5 amps per light is a heavy enough load that you will develop pitting.   I wouldn't put the potential damage to the head stock to risk.   I would run a ground wire along with the power.    On some bikes  have seen a ground wire to the fork assembly.   Even if you have one, I am positive that it is not sized to handle any extra accessory lighting.

[stelt]

don't ground through the forks. You will be putting current through the steering head bearings. That will pit the races eventually and you'll have to change them! now that Ive posted good info on the above post..

[datsaxman@hotmail.com]

55W is more than that...but still not enough to bother a decent switch...

unless you are using a 16V battery...

[Leo]

watts divided by volts equals amps.

Round up for continous duty circuits.   I always go up, if 16 awg will do, I put in 14.   If a 12 amp switch will do, I'll put in a 16 or 20. 

[VirginiaJim]

Good advice.

[sailor_chic]

Thank you for all the good advice. I wish Brian was my neighbor.
My figures show 4.3 amps with using 12.8v.

[Deziner]

Professionally speaking, no all circuits do NOT need a relay. Look, if Kawasaki wanted to, they could choose to NOT use a starter relay. They could simply mount a gargantuan starter switch. Some folks might need both hands to engage it, but it COULD be done.

 Since the lenght of run for auxiliary light wiring on a motorcycle is negligible, ( length of run of any other circuit on a motorcycle too) OF COURSE one could simply use a switch with a higher amp rating than total circuit load. The use of a relay simply affords the installer  an infinitely broader set of options as far as activation switches go. Relays are what enable the use the small, aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing switchgear consumers have grown to love over the years.

Its kind of humorous how some members find it necessary to snipe at other's posts in a feeble effort to display an academic knowledge of subject matter rather than offer real world, experience based solutions to question or problem.

[Rembrant]

I wish Brian was my neighbor.

Ever watch Family Guy?

Do you like clam chowdah?...lol.

Just kiddin...lol, kind of...

Rem

[VirginiaJim]

Its kind of humorous how some members find it necessary to snipe at other's posts in a feeble effort to display an academic knowledge of subject matter rather than offer real world, experience based solutions to question or problem.

Yes it is, and we like it that way.  Members snipe away at everything.  Tis the nature of our beast and I/we like it that way.  It is all done in humor, for the most part and taken in stride.

[B.D.F.]

Wait for it.... another snipe coming..... I notice you did NOT answer the question about the threshold when a relay is needed.

Hey, it was you who chose to challenge my advice, not the other way around. Further, you chose to back your position with 25 years of working on others designs as a technician.... not really a strong reason for one's likelihood of being correct IMO. For example: if I had a question about rocks (what type, what they contain, how they were formed, etc., etc.) I think I would rather ask a geologist rather than a backhoe operator with 25 years of experience actually digging up rocks.

As far as your example of a two handed starter switch, that is not the likely way to eliminate the starter relay (or solenoid as it is usually called): the more common way is to use a foot switch, often located above the throttle ("gas pedal") on autos of the 1940's.

Have a great day (seriously, not sarcastically),
Brian

Professionally speaking, no all circuits do NOT need a relay. Look, if Kawasaki wanted to, they could choose to NOT use a starter relay. They could simply mount a gargantuan starter switch. Some folks might need both hands to engage it, but it COULD be done.

 Since the lenght of run for auxiliary light wiring on a motorcycle is negligible, ( length of run of any other circuit on a motorcycle too) OF COURSE one could simply use a switch with a higher amp rating than total circuit load. The use of a relay simply affords the installer  an infinitely broader set of options as far as activation switches go. Relays are what enable the use the small, aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing switchgear consumers have grown to love over the years.

Its kind of humorous how some members find it necessary to snipe at other's posts in a feeble effort to display an academic knowledge of subject matter rather than offer real world, experience based solutions to question or problem.

[B.D.F.]

:-)   

Well, we kinda' are neighbors, just that we have some wiring (the 'Net) in the way....  Hey, we are almost certainly related (by blood) too: no matter which school of thought you follow (conventional religion or science), we all come from an extremely small source group. So there ya' go- we are neighbors (sorta') AND we're cousins!

The current thingy is hard to know precisely because a light is not a straight resistance and the voltage of our 12 volts bikes (or any vehicle) is not 12 volts. My C-14 shows 14.5 volts when running with a fully charged battery. That would make the current draw ~3.8 amps for 55 watts but assuming the lights are tungsten (halogen), they will draw more current as the supply voltage goes up. But not in any linear fashion so it is tough to guess. Again, for the purposes of choosing wiring, components and similar, 5 amps is close enough. I would fuse the circuit at 10 amps as you want some overhead above the actual load so the fuse never, ever opens under normal circumstances, only if a significant fault occurs.

Ted mentioned a pretty good idea: purchasing a ready- made aux. lighting harness for the purpose. I never actually used one of them but it should be easily up to the task and ready to go. Murph (Gary) is a good guy, runs a very fast, tight business and has a killer "Surprise" joke to tell. Others also sell quality pre- made harnesses for aux. lighting such as Twisted Throttle.

Best of luck and absolutely ask any questions- you can see you will get lots of answers.

Brian

Thank you for all the good advice. I wish Brian was my neighbor.
My figures show 4.3 amps with using 12.8v.

[B.D.F.]

I doubt she'd like the weather and I really doubt she could pick up the language; almost no one over 10 years old ever does. But other than economic decline, rising costs, and the significant lack of any supporting industry or trade, it is a great place to live.... kinda'. (yeah, I'd put the little guy rolling on the ground laughing here but it is not all that funny really....). The entire northeast US, at least the industrial parts, are in decline and I am not seeing either the end of that decline nor the thing(s) that will save the area economically. Sorry to be all dumpy about this but I live here and.... well, it is kind of dumpy. But the area is nice, almost non- existent crime, nice terrain (I think) and decent roads for riding.

Brian

Ever watch Family Guy?

Do you like clam chowdah?...lol.

Just kiddin...lol, kind of...

Rem

[VirginiaJim]

This the one, Brian?

http://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=102

Assuming it is, even though it's in the C10 section, I'm pretty sure it won't slow you down.........much.     I kill myself sometimes.  Endless pleasure here.  I can be a 12 year old nitwit if I want to be.  It's wonderful.

As I listen to Dream On by Aerosmith...takes me back to the 70's and now some Foghat...

[B.D.F.]

Well, I guess it would work but it has too many relays (2) for what Nicole wants to do.

So I just looked at Murph's, Twisted Throttle and another electrical parts source and NONE of them have a kit for lighting that is not way too big (two lamps, 85 watts each) and expensive for what Nicole wants to do IMO. Especially since she has a fuse block already; all the kits connect to the battery and come with in-line fuses. It is not that these wiring kits won't work, it is that they are very expensive for what Nicole needs to do IMO.

Sheesh- I though that would be an easy way out too....

Brian

This the one, Brian?

http://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=102

Assuming it is, even though it's in the C10 section, I'm pretty sure it won't slow you down.........much.     I kill myself sometimes.  Endless pleasure here.  I can be a 12 year old nitwit if I want to be.  It's wonderful.

As I listen to Dream On by Aerosmith...takes me back to the 70's and now some Foghat...

[VirginiaJim]

Next?

[Deziner]

For the most part, the threshold for use of a relay in motor vehicle applications is determined by the circuit designer/installer. While its true that I have never designed a relay or any other switching device, I have installed thousands.
As an automotive technician, I am pretty much limited by the devices that are commercially available and easily attainable.
 Over the years there hasn't been much I haven't encountered as far as wiring is concerned.  From simple "add-ons" like we're talking about here to complete headlight to taillight jobs that included an MPFI engine. Some customers want micro switches located in the ashtray to control NOS systems, including bottle heaters, so they are easily concealed. The NOS activation is then triggered by the horn button. (In conjunction with the WOT switch and RPM trigger, of course. )

Wether the circuit is simple or complex,  there is more going on than meets the eye. If memory serves, a 55w halogen bulb creates about a 250w load at the switch at initial contact. While that may only be for a nanosecond, it still happens. In MY opinion, there is no substitute for high quality components and high quality craftsmanship in any endeavor.

 I may only be a backhoe operator, but I am a GOOD backhoe operator.
 

[sailor_chic]

My lil brain hurts!!

Yeah, your right about the weather. I think I see that white stuff in your avatar pic. Im far too old to handle that stuff again. When it gets to 50 here in Florida, I'm looking for a way to keep warm.

So here's my thinking..... Run two 10g wires from the battery, one (+), (-), to the Fuzeblock. From the Fuzeblock, wired to turn on when bike is on, relayed (?) supposedly, with a 16g wire to a remote switch, and then down to lights with 16g wire. With a 16g wire returning to Fuzeblock.

If my understanding is correct, I should also be able to connect to this Fuzeblock, my Stebel air horn, and GPS, and have enough space/power for heated clothing. Correct?

Brian, you mentioned fuse's for the lights. With approximate voltage, and using round figures for amps, both lights are around 10 amps.  A 10 amp fuse then required? Or should it be 15?

Please forgive my dumb questions, and I appreciate the help. I am learning as I go as I tend to do things by braille.

[Deziner]

I apologize if I didn't answer the threshold question properly. I make the decision of wether or not to use a relay based upon the switch being used on my backhoe 

[connie_rider]

Ok,,, Electrical idiot speaking;;;  (ie: ME)

Sailor_chic, I don't think you have it correct.
You said; So here's my thinking..... Run two 10g wires from the battery, one (+), (-), to the Fuzeblock. From the Fuzeblock, wired to turn on when bike is on, relayed (?) supposedly, with a 16g wire to a remote switch, and then down to lights with 16g wire. With a 16g wire returning to Fuzeblock.
If my understanding is correct, I should also be able to connect to this Fuzeblock, my Stebel air horn, and GPS, and have enough space/power for heated clothing. Correct?

I think your basically correct "with the exception of the remote switch.
You have it located in the circuit between the relay and the lights.
If you install it there, the remote switch swould see the same higher amperage that you are trying to overcome...

To reduce amperage load at the remote switch, it should be located in a circuit that only turns on the relay...
After the relay is powered up/turned on by the switch, it supplies power to the lights thru another circuit..

"AND"" (that makes no sense what-so-ever as you only have "1" relay to turn everything on, and the Fuzebloc doesn't seem to have attachment points for a switch circuit)..

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh...........

S_C,,, Can you post the schematic that came with the fuzebloc or, can one of you snipper's make a simple schematic?

Ride safe, Ted