Need GUHL Map created for a C14 with ZX14 TB's & Full Length Aftermarket Exhaust

[The Pope]

Anybody with ZX14 Throttlebodies going to Guhl's for a dyno run and an ECU reflash? 

When I had my ECU reflashed a few months back, Don Guhl said that he currently didn't have a flash for the ZX14 TB's on a C14. So I told him to give me something that he'd consider safe and that I'd ride up sometime in early Spring for a dyno run to generate a map.

Due to time constraints and other factors, I may not get to do this.
So..... if someone else is closer (I'm over 7hrs away) to him and has ZX14 throttlebodies and full length aftermarket exhaust on their C14 that can do this, I would appreciate it.   

[The Pope]

Hummm....... over 30 views. I can only guess that the other C14 owners who have the ZX14 TB's on their bikes either haven't seen this thread yet or are running PC-V's with Autotune.

Come on! I know you're out there!!!

[VirginiaJim]

No, we're not.    I don't think that is a common mod.  Have you tried asking on the other forum?

[Son of Pappy]

Not common for sure.  As I am out of the game I will be watching with interest to see what this reflash yields.  I will also be interested to see what they say about available air in, would be nice if they had a way to simulate the ram air effect fro an accurate tune.

[The Pope]

Have you tried asking on the other forum?

Uuuuuummmmm yes...... 

It's on both as there are some that don't cross over to the other site.

[maxtog]

Hummm....... over 30 views. I can only guess that the other C14 owners who have the ZX14 TB's on their bikes either haven't seen this thread yet or are running PC-V's with Autotune.

That would be my guess- replacing the TB is rare to start with.  Doing so without also installing a PC might never have been done by anyone else on the forums.

[Spanky]

I have an 09 with the zx14TB's and a full area P with PCV and autotune installed. I am only about 40 minutes away from Guhl's in Ephrata and would be glad to help if I can. I don't need a reflash of my computer, but I would be willing to let him check my bike if you would like.

[The Pope]

That would be great!!!

Oh..... Do you still have the flys in or did you take them out?

[Rembrant]

Not common for sure.  As I am out of the game I will be watching with interest to see what this reflash yields.  I will also be interested to see what they say about available air in, would be nice if they had a way to simulate the ram air effect fro an accurate tune.

This is why the Autotune feature...either with a Dynojet PC5 or your ECU is such a fantastic feature...you get to tune your bike with the ram air. Do you remember that funky looking ram air duct on the nose of the original Kawi ZX12R? I'm trying to remember the exact number, ...I think it was 7HP that the ram air created on that bike....BUT, that wasn't until 100 MPH or so...maybe even 120 (I forget). Those numbers were right from Kawasaki.

The ram air effect on the C14 is probably worth 3-5 HP?...at considerable enough speeds to actually force air in there. I know the FI ECU does compensate for the ram air by adding more fuel as the speeds increase. However, the ECU is all still working from the base fuel maps.

This is the downside to tuning on a dyno...you don't get to tune with your ram air. The downside to Autotuning on the street is that you don't get your HP numbers. Catch 22?

From what I've read on some of the other Kawasaki's, the ram air will effectively lean out a dyno tuned AFR by 2 tenths, so there is definitely more air getting in there at higher speeds;).

Cheers,
Rem

[Rembrant]

Hummm....... over 30 views. I can only guess that the other C14 owners who have the ZX14 TB's on their bikes either haven't seen this thread yet or are running PC-V's with Autotune.

Come on! I know you're out there!!!

I think they're all running PC5's with dyno'd maps and/or Autotunes as they are providing the biggest power increases in both torque and HP...and for the fact that there isn't an off-the-shelf ECU flash available (yet). If there had been an ECU flash available, then C14 owners likely would have tried it.

I don't think anybody has dyno'd the ZX14 TB's as a stand alone mod have they? If they make the estimated 5-6 HP that others have claimed, then that should put you in the 145-150 RWHP / 95-100 ft/lbs torque range with a reflash.

I'm anxious to hear the results Pope...please do keep us posted;)!!

Cheers,
Rem

[The Pope]

I think they're all running PC5's with dyno'd maps and/or Autotunes as they are providing the biggest power increases in both torque and HP...and for the fact that there isn't an off-the-shelf ECU flash available (yet). If there had been an ECU flash available, then C14 owners likely would have tried it.

I don't think anybody has dyno'd the ZX14 TB's as a stand alone mod have they? If they make the estimated 5-6 HP that others have claimed, then that should put you in the 145-150 RWHP / 95-100 ft/lbs torque range with a reflash.

I'm anxious to hear the results Pope...please do keep us posted;)!!

Cheers,
Rem

Yes, I do know that at some point I will have my bike dynoed and I'll have a PC5 with Auto Tune on it. But for now I can't afford to do both. I'm still trying to sort out which I'll do first (Dyno or PC5 w/Auto Tune). They both will run me about the same price (PC5 & Auto Tune is a little more) when I factor in my trip expences to Guhl for a custom map.

Decissions, decissions...... 

[Rembrant]

Yes, I do know that at some point I will have my bike dynoed and I'll have a PC5 with Auto Tune on it. But for now I can't afford to do both. I'm still trying to sort out which I'll do first (Dyno or PC5 w/Auto Tune). They both will run me about the same price (PC5 & Auto Tune is a little more) when I factor in my trip expences to Guhl for a custom map.

Decissions, decissions...... 

Well, the lowest cost option to get you started would be just a PC5 without an Autotune, and you could just use one of the PC5 maps that the others have already dynoed? Of course you'd have to get your ECU flashed back to stock, but a PC5 is only about $250 bucks;).

There are always too many decisions Pope...lol, that's what makes all the research so fun...lol.

My ECU autotune kit is on the way and should be here this week, but I'll still be a little while before I get to actually tuning...too busy with other stupid life stuff at the moment...lol. However, I do have the ZX14 TB's already, and after almost 7 months of waiting, I'm told my Area-P full system is supposed to ship by the end of this week;).

Since I already have the PC5 and Autotune, I'll eventually be tuning the bike with both the ECU and PC5....I'll keep you posted. When it's all done, I should have a really nice (and very powerful;) ECU map to share.

[The Pope]

If I go the PC5 route first, it will be with the Auto Tune included because I'm not getting the ECU re-flashed back to stock. As for prices, the best new unit pricse that I've found so far is $286 USD for the PC5 and around $225 USD for the Auto Tune. I've been watching the For Sale sections on this and the other forums to see if I could find a deal on a used one, but I haven't had any luck.

The custom map will cost me somewhere between $200-$300 dyno time & $150+ for trip expences. So that's somewhere between $350 and $450+.

So yes..... decission, decissions..... but I am leaning more toward the custom dyno map and saving the PC5/Auto Tune for a winter project.

[Spanky]

Flies are out 

[The Pope]

Flies are out 

Hummmmm..... that "may" be a problem. Mine are still in and I have no plans on taking them out due to them being a part of the traction control system.

[Spanky]

No problem. Let me know if I can help.

[maxtog]

The ram air effect on the C14 is probably worth 3-5 HP?

The Wikipedia entry claims 4.7hp.

[Rembrant]

The Wikipedia entry claims 4.7hp.

Well isn't that interesting. I don't recall ever seeing an actual HP number before. Thanks Max.

[maxtog]

Well isn't that interesting. I don't recall ever seeing an actual HP number before. Thanks Max.

I have no idea how accurate the number is or where the person posting it got it from, but it is a number.  Such a small amount of boost (and especially since it is only at high speed) seems hardly worth the effort.  But I guess ya gotta get air from somewhere, and if you can design it to gain several extra hp without costing much or creating additional design compromises, why not?

[Rembrant]

I have no idea how accurate the number is or where the person posting it got it from, but it is a number.  Such a small amount of boost (and especially since it is only at high speed) seems hardly worth the effort.  But I guess ya gotta get air from somewhere, and if you can design it to gain several extra hp without costing much or creating additional design compromises, why not?

Well, it's likely correct...or close to correct? I know Kawasaki said that the ZX12R gained 7HP (I think) from the ram air at high speeds. Given that the 12R was a higher performance machine than the C14, a number a little lower for the C14 would seem plausible.

Member Turbo just did some dyno work on his modified ZX10R, and as the speeds got higher and higher on the dyno, the AFR was getting richer and richer, because the bike thinks it's getting more air due to the higher speeds;).