New to this discussion.
Read it over quickly and will go back to reread in detail.
Have 2 questions that I don't see answered in my quick read.
Cost; What is the cost of "remove Flies and add PC" vs "Guhl Reflash"?
Warranty: Do either (or both) void the bikes warranty?
(I suspect the reflash would be harder to detect and less likely to void a warranty)
Ride safe, Ted
Ted, the reflash is the way to go for anything after a 2010. The reflash is, iirc 375.00, to properly set up a pcv and autotune you're going to be closer to 650-700.00. Steve
The OP was for a 2008 that has no TC. Mine being a 2014 has TC and I am curious how much removing the flies will affect the TC. I'm sure I read somewhere that the TC uses more Fuel control then the use of the secondary flies when activated.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Thanks Rem and Brian
You probably missed this in previous postings.
The secondary butterflies ARE used by traction control as one of two ways to slow the engine, the other being the ignition. However, if the "flies" are removed, the TC will still work, just maybe not quite as elegantly. Most people report they don't notice much difference in TC with the flies in or out.
If you reflash (Guhl) then it will have the same effect as removing the flies, but retain 100% of the traction control.
Removing the flies is very cheap if you do it yourself and consider your time worth nothing. But it is a long procedure. If you ever plan on installing a PC or other "radical" changes, this is what you want to do.
Reflashing is not cheap, but it is extremely easy. It also keeps everything "looking" factory, doesn't disturb the TC in any way, gives you a slightly improved fuel map which can result in a bit better performance, and gives you the ability to use the FEAM to revert back to the old map for comparison.
Just a different opinion but I do not agree with the thought that a re-flash will leave the TC mechanism untouched or leave it operating as it did OE. The fact that a re- flash opens the flies sooner / farther will effect how much and how soon they can close to the required amount to reduce power to the rear wheel. The stepper that moves those secondaries is not very fast and yet rapid power reduction is required to prevent excessive wheel spin.
There are not two ways the ECU controls traction, there are three- the 'flies, ignition and fuel delivery, with the last two being the most important, fastest and most positive.
I agree with that theory. However, I don't think either of us knows how quickly or not the secondaries can close.... plus the change pre/post flash isn't from full open to full closed (however closed that might be) over most of the spectrum... kinda depends on a lot of factors. So I will revise to say that flashing will affect TC less than totally removing the flies.
Agreed- will revise and try not to forget (yet again... not the first time I have)
Taking the thought a bit further, it sounds plausible that by closing the secondary plates you're not so much stopping the slipping of the rear wheel, but more like nurturing the power when the engine re-applies it after the slipping has been brought in check by the reduction of power achieved by the ignition and fueling adjustment.
I wouldn't necessarily say that it is the way to go, but it is definitely the easiest way to go. If you're looking for a little power boost down low in a plug-N-play mod, then the Guhl flash is the best choice. The Guhl reflash is a bit on the conservative side, and it should be, so for sport-touring use, it's great.
Rem
Keeeeerect!!
First of all, the wife bought it for me as an anniversary (42)/retirement gift.
Second of all, I had knee surgery and can't ride it or at this point bend my knee enough to set on it...
So, the bike is setting in the garage with 4 miles on it.....
Before I take it apart,, I'd like to ride it and get to know it!
"AND" More important,,,, If I take it apart,,,, the wife would KILL ME!!!
While I'm setting here, can't drive (because surgery was on right knee), can't ride the bike,,,,, and bored out of my MIND!!!!
all I can do is type on the stupid computer and get information from ya'll.
Thank you for your input!
Ride safe, Ted
This may sound funny, but due to my locale, I like that the flies tone down the engine some for congested city driving.
6th gear in this bike is the longest I've experienced (probably a Goldwing has a longer one, though, but that bike revs to 6000 only).
For comparison, at 4000 rpm most bikes (Versys 1000, BMW K1600, even the ZX14) will do 70 mph. The BMW S1000RR will do 55, as other sports bikes.
C14? 83 mph.
I can't use 6th comfortably on the C14 for anything less than about 60 MPH, which I think is around 3KRPM. Anything lower and it lugging almost continuously. I am not complaining, though- it is perfect for cruising at high speeds- giving the maximum fuel economy with the least amount of vibration and noise. When driving on interesting roads (2 lane, non straight) with 55 posted, the bike is mostly in 5th.That's what 4th is four.
Wouldn't it be a reasonable occurance for the secondary throttle plates to close after the rpms are reduced from a traction control event and not be a part of the actual TC correction?