Any rumored changes for 14?

[Cuda]

My  O- ring gives me a break ,
But I'm not a long ride kind of guy ,
More of a sprinter 
When I went to 9th grade I joint  cross-country track in High School when I found out I could not eat my double lunches and had to push my self to the point I was sick , I moved to shorter runs, sprinter, I take my conversion van for real trips, my wife would NEVER get on a bike .
Thou CC would be nice .

[AZBob]

That is way off base, and the motorcycle magazines seem to have a different opinion.

Every review I read has the K16GT coming out on-top. Doesn't matter what bikes you throw in there, C14, ST1300, new Triumph Trophy, revised FJR, the BMW always comes out on-top. And depending on the review, it's often not even close. The Concours is constantly bitched at for the linked braking system (I didn't find them to be any problem whatsoever in my test ride, but hey, different people ride differently), not having cruise control, having a bit archaic instrument cluster, whacky KIPASS, and the poor turn-in (I also didn't find this to be a problem).

The BMW adds a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items, which is really no different then a high end car.

You can choose not to get those fancy add-ons and save some money, but the base GT is still >$21k MSRP. :-(

Then you add in reliability between the brands, cost of ownership,

Cost of ownership of the BMW K16GT/GTL is actually less than the Concours if you follow both manufacturer's documented maintenance schedules.

and finally dealer support and locations

If you live in the sticks, then yeah, there's probably not a BMW dealer near you. There are two within 30 miles of me. This is purely based on luck, and of course factors in, but honestly, I haven't had my Honda back to the dealer since I bought it, so I doubt I'd bring any other back, either, unless it was a warranty repair. The BMW dealers usually give you a loaner bike and tow your bike to their place.

Like I said before, I will be getting away from the big heavy bikes sooner than later, I did more than fine traveling the country on a Vstrom 1000.......and went places the C14 could not. 

Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.

[gPink]

Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...and still 20 grand.

[eng943]

That is way off base, and the motorcycle magazines seem to have a different opinion. The C14 and the FJR have everything that 3/4 of riders want/need and are satisfied with. The BMW adds a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items, which is really no different then a high end car. Then you add in reliability between the brands, cost of ownership, and finally dealer support and locations.......then you are right in it not even being close.  Like I said before, I will be getting away from the big heavy bikes sooner than later, I did more than fine traveling the country on a Vstrom 1000.......and went places the C14 could not. 

All due respect, where are you coming from with this? Most if not all of the magazines acknowledge the K16 is the superior bike if in fact you use magazine articles as the litmus. The only debate generally has been how resoundingly the editors chose the K16 over the C14, and how to compare the value proposition of the two.

Does my C14 have better relaibility than my K16? So far it's no better or worse, time will tell and neither of us can drill down deep enough into fact to make a real declaration. Maybe cost of ownership is higher on the K16. Has nothing to do with the capabilities of the K16 and the fact that it truly is the superior bike. Smoother, more torque, better roll on acceleration, better wind protection, better two up bike, heated seat, cruise, ESA, integrated GPS/bluetooth/com, better lighting, more range, better brakes. 

I find your comment about 3/4 of ST riders being satisfied without "a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items" highly contradictory. That is completely false as evidenced by the countless members here who add cruise, heated seat, nav, countless ergonomical farkles to make the C14 more long distance friendly, etc. Myself included.

I have owned both, and I could never look anyone in the eye and tell them my C14 is superior to the K16. The only thing my C14 does better is to your point, provide me with better dealer support, lower initial cost and cost to maintain. I don't dimiss these virtues at all, and from a value perspective the C14 is fast, refined, and a great bike.

Please point me toward the magazine articles (plural as you claim) that contradict my opinion. I thought I read or viewed just about every comparison that was done before I bought the K16 and since.

K16 is the better bike categorically, and should be for the cost  differential.

       

[eng943]

Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...and still 20 grand.

I have. It's an incredible bike, but living in the midwest, I really want/need weather protection. 

[maxtog]

I read somewhere that Kawi did ask customers of Gen1 C14 about improvments to make before launching the Gen 2.

Well, not sure customers asked for linked brakes  but I though it was a good idea to relies on customers experiences to make sure they do changes.

Any process like that going on? If not, why don't we just feed them officially?

They have already sent out a survey (more than one, actually) to 2nd gen C-14 owners about what they like and don't like and what they want changed.  Kawasaki is absolutely aware of people being unhappy with the current implementation of linked brakes and lack of cruise control.

[maxtog]

As for my C14 being superior to say a K16GT....ummm no, not even close unless you are arguing value.

Value is a major consideration in any comparison.  And the Concours performs and handles just as well (as has been discussed in several other threads).

As for BMW overpriced, that's pretty subjective, and I would not try to dispense that declaration as being fact.

Oh, I think it is fact    When you compare what you get with the C14 at price X and what you get with the K16 at price Y, it doesn't jive at all. 

[maxtog]

Cost of ownership of the BMW K16GT/GTL is actually less than the Concours if you follow both manufacturer's documented maintenance schedules.

Well, WE all know that is nonsense.  No sane person would follow the strange, unnecessary, and whacked USA version of the C-14 schedule.  Follow the EU schedule for our exact same C-14, and the equations changes quite radically.  Plus it is more than just routine maintenance in the situation.

[eng943]

Value is a major consideration in any comparison.  And the Concours performs and handles just as well (as has been discussed in several other threads).

Oh, I think it is fact    When you compare what you get with the C14 at price X and what you get with the K16 at price Y, it doesn't jive at all.

You're right, it does not jive because essentially the majority of available features on the K16 are not offered on the C14. That was one of my points. Your arguments make no sense.

Look, the C14 is a great bike, it is not a K16 beater unless your primary consideration is cost. As for performs and handles just as well, in some respects yes, others no the C14 does not. However, acceleration and handling are only part of a sport touring bike's dynamics.

[maxtog]

All due respect, where are you coming from with this? Most if not all of the magazines acknowledge the K16 is the superior bike if in fact you use magazine articles as the litmus. The only debate generally has been how resoundingly the editors chose the K16 over the C14, and how to compare the value proposition of the two.

Exactly.

The K16 might be, overall, a few percent better, and everyone would and should rate it higher.  But when it is 50% more expensive, is that justified?  Add more cylinders and displacement but gain almost no more power (especially after a flash)?  Adding cruise, HID, a heated seat and a few other farkles to better equalize the two isn't going to change that price gap by more than several more percent and you are still left with a big difference in price.  And the user can decide if he even wants to close the feature gap or not (although I still think Kawasaki should consider throwing them in, since they really are NOT that expensive when added in mass production).

And with the good design, excellent dealership network, and great long-term and expandable warranty on the C-14, that price difference isn't eroded due to [sane] maintenance or service.   If anything, the gap will just continue to get wider over time.

[ZG]

I've put about $20k into my ZG and absolutely love it now, how much would I have to put into the K16 to make it to what I want? 
 

[eng943]

Exactly.

The K16 might be, overall, a few percent better, and everyone would and should rate it higher.  But when it is 50% more expensive, is that justified?  Add more cylinders and displacement but gain almost no more power (especially after a flash)?  Adding cruise, HID, a heated seat and a few other farkles to better equalize the two isn't going to change that price gap by more than several more percent and you are still left with a big difference in price.  And the user can decide if he even wants to close the feature gap or not (although I still think Kawasaki should consider throwing them in, since they really are NOT that expensive when added in mass production).

And with the good design, excellent dealership network, and great long-term and expandable warranty on the C-14, that price difference isn't eroded due to [sane] maintenance or service.   If anything, the gap will just continue to get wider over time.

Please pick a lane First the K16 was not superior, now it is by a "few percentage points" whatever that means. Moreover, the K16 makes notably more torque, which on a ST bike particularly when riding two up is what matters, not peak hp. To that end the K16 crushes my C14 in roll on power as illustrated in every test, and my own experience.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. The K16 does things the C14 cannot in many regards. It's up to the buyer to determine if that's something worth paying for. Go add all the features a K16 comes with, many of which you couldn't, and I'll bet my first child you will be all too close to the $23K I paid for my K16.

   

[Pokey]

Max made the comments for me, and no the K1600 does not dominate the C14 or the FJR in "any" category. Yes it is the uber luxury version for a superb sport touring bike "especially 2 up", but go on a big trip and the BMW dealers are in fact scarce. You obviously have a raging hard on for  BMW, but I still think some of it is the whole "I own a BMW thing".    Price or ownership is a huge factor for many riders, hence why much fewer BMW owners are out there. The Multistrada is simply an amazing bike, maybe the all around best bike that is currently available, but once again the cost of ownership and dealer networks is a turn off for me. I will keep buying my inexpensive Japanese machines and just slowly add to them what I want that suits my needs.    You love it and that is all that matters, ride what ya love and love what ya ride.

[maxtog]

Please pick a lane First the K16 was not superior, now it is by a "few percentage points" whatever that means.

"Superior" is a much greater superlative than "better".   I don't believe there is anything contradictory in what I said.  I think it is a little (which is what I meant by "few percentage points") better, overall, not "superior".  Chalk it up to semantics, but that is what I meant.

Moreover, the K16 makes notably more torque, which on a ST bike particularly when riding two up is what matters, not peak hp. To that end the K16 crushes my C14 in roll on power as illustrated in every test, and my own experience.

Yes, the heavier K16 does make more torque in lower RPM (and LESS than the C14 in higher RPM).  But roll-ons in what gear?  Most "roll-on" tests are in top gear, and that is hardly valid on a C14 which has a true overdrive.  5th and under is the only valid comparison.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. The K16 does things the C14 cannot in many regards. It's up to the buyer to determine if that's something worth paying for.

Totally agreed.  It is nice to have choices, and the K16 is certainly nice.

Go add all the features a K16 comes with, many of which you couldn't, and I'll bet my first child you will be all too close to the $23K I paid for my K16.

You really think it would cost $10K?  I don't... at least not for what it is POSSIBLE to add.   To touch on the things I could identify:

Good GPS + sound system + mounting:  $400
Better seat + heated $500
Reflash ECU  $350
Cruise $550 (rostra + install)
HID $100 (can't add adaptive, of course)
Mirror deflectors $75

Not even $2000.  Did I miss anything important?  I can't do much about electronic suspension, but that is optional- how about throwing in an entire 3 years more of warranty for $335

[Son of Pappy]

Max, ya left out unlimited mileage

FWIW, as noted in my tagline, I own a BMW, and owned an 1150RT before the 14.  Service cost flipped me, if anyone is interested, see what is involved in doing a "simple" brake bleed on the RT.

[Madcow]

Max, ya left out unlimited mileage

And the K16 has a 3 year 36k warrenty, so if you put 2000 miles a month on the K16 the warrenty will only be good for a 11/2 years.

[Son of Pappy]

$670 gets ya 6 more years, for a total of 9 years unlimited warranty.  Why doesn't BMW offer this?  Is the answer as simple as they know good and well they would lose any and all profit?  Maybe even a loss??  FWIW, this simple warranty speaks volumes as to the why the C14 is the vastly superior motorcycle in the eyes of a rider.  I would ponder (hick for guess) that most K riders will not exceed 12k a year, some sure, most no, so the unlimited 3 year has very little attraction, but 9 years total?  It may also ne safe to say that the majority of K riders will not own their bike past 2 years, trading in for something else.  I would say it is safe to say that a sizeable amount of us Connie owners tend to hold on to our beloved bike a tad longer, and from what I have seen and read do more miles.  Making the warranty a really big deal.

BOT  I hear 55 profile rear will also compliment the bike, to overcome the often heard turn in effort.  Add a third mode, say sport mode, to open the flies at the first crack of the throttle.

[eng943]

Max made the comments for me, and no the K1600 does not dominate the C14 or the FJR in "any" category. Yes it is the uber luxury version for a superb sport touring bike "especially 2 up", but go on a big trip and the BMW dealers are in fact scarce. You obviously have a raging hard on for  BMW, but I still think some of it is the whole "I own a BMW thing".    Price or ownership is a huge factor for many riders, hence why much fewer BMW owners are out there. The Multistrada is simply an amazing bike, maybe the all around best bike that is currently available, but once again the cost of ownership and dealer networks is a turn off for me. I will keep buying my inexpensive Japanese machines and just slowly add to them what I want that suits my needs.    You love it and that is all that matters, ride what ya love and love what ya ride.

I actually do not have a raging hard on for BMW,as much as some here have a raging hard against BMW. Latest article in Motorcyclist says the K16GT "dominates the class is dynamically superior to the FJR, C14, and new Trophy".

In general, my comments are no different than the dozens of comparisons done of the two. All of them claim the K16 was the better bike, and it is no affront to my decision to own a C14 to acknowledge the K16 is better.

In general and aside from a couple gripes like the brakes, and small gas tank, I like my C14, especially considering how inexpensive it was. However, if someone asked me which bike I would rather do a 500-1000 mile day on, or have in my garage, it's the K16 hands down. 

That all said, the Trophy has some appeal to me as well, so I'll be waiting for the next threat telling me how overpriced the Trophy is, and how I obviously have a raging hard on for Triumph, etc.     

 

[eng943]

"Superior" is a much greater superlative than "better".   I don't believe there is anything contradictory in what I said.  I think it is a little (which is what I meant by "few percentage points") better, overall, not "superior".  Chalk it up to semantics, but that is what I meant.

Yes, the heavier K16 does make more torque in lower RPM (and LESS than the C14 in higher RPM).  But roll-ons in what gear?  Most "roll-on" tests are in top gear, and that is hardly valid on a C14 which has a true overdrive.  5th and under is the only valid comparison.

Totally agreed.  It is nice to have choices, and the K16 is certainly nice.

You really think it would cost $10K?  I don't... at least not for what it is POSSIBLE to add.   To touch on the things I could identify:

Good GPS + sound system + mounting:  $400
Better seat + heated $500
Reflash ECU  $350
Cruise $550 (rostra + install)
HID $100 (can't add adaptive, of course)
Mirror deflectors $75

Not even $2000.  Did I miss anything important?  I can't do much about electronic suspension, but that is optional- how about throwing in an entire 3 years more of warranty for $335

I simply don't agree on any level other than price that my C14 is in the same class as the K16, and to one degree or another every comparison echos my sentiment.

Thank you for the tip on hitting the interstates in 5th gear so I can have comparable roll on power to a bike that by every documented report + my own observations, thumps my C14 in roll on power.

You missed a lot of important features, by picking and choosing only what is important to you. Again, the value of the K16 is relative to what the buyer wants in terms of features. Many of which, just are not even an option on the aftermarket for a C14.

You don't think the K16 is worth the cost. Enough said. 

[Pokey]

I will give it the better all around bike at touring, especially 2 up. And for the record, I don't think the Trophy is over-priced at all. Sweet sweet engine, and pretty much anything that Triumph has been pumping out lately seems to be pretty reliable.


On a side note.......a new Goldwing isnt worth the price either, that is why I would buy a lightly used one instead.