Oil Leak Quesion

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

I have searched and read lot of information, but I want to make sure I understand it right. I changed the oil on the Connie a couple of weeks ago, and I might have overfilled it (my wife was talking when I was filling). At most there would have been an extra 1/4 of a quart, so not much. Since then it has started leaking oil from the water pump area. The oil level is down now so it is not up to the top of the window anymore. I originally thought it was leaking out of the weep hole due to overfilling, but now I think the water pump seals might be bad. There is so much caked on oil on the bottom of the water pump that I can't tell if it is coming from the weep hole or not. When the bike is running there is a steady leak of oil, but if you shut it off the leak stops. If I understand what I have read correctly, I can replace the seals and not the pump if it is leaking oil right? It is only if it is leaking coolant that the pump has to be changed.

[MAN OF BLUES]

overfilling the oil by 8oz or more is the number 1 cause for the inner waterpump oil seal to fail...
and yes, it can be replaced.

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

Thanks for the reply. The seals are on their way.

[Summit670]

The water pump can fail even if not leaking coolant, in my opinion.  The inner seal keeps oil out of the pump and from leaking out the weep hole.  On the other side of the pump is another bearing and then another seal to seal in the coolant.  The weep hole is between the two. However, the bearing behind the inner seal could go bad without causing a water leak or an oil leak (the way I see it).

I have another concern too.  Say the inner seal goes bad and you get oil dripping out the weep hole.  How does the oil get from engine side to weep hole - it must go thru the bearing?  I doubt it goes around or under the bearing but I don't know.  My concern is hot oil going thru the bearing and washing the grease out of the bearing.  The seal is then fixed and the oil leak stops.  Is it not a matter of time then that the bearing, instead of running in grease, is now existing on what oil has leaked thru it and it is only a matter of greatly shorter time before that bearing fails?

I replaced my seal, probably at least 10,000 miles ago, but I'm still concerned about the bearing going bad now and getting no warning sign of impending doom (like if antifreeze was dripping that would be a warning).

In retrospect, I should have just replaced the whole assembly for $160 since my bike was about  21 years old and 55,000 miles.

How many miles have people ridden after replacing the inner seal and is the water pump still good? I replaced mine 4 years and 20,000 miles ago.

Comments?

[Vic Salisbury]

I did the "re-seal" attempt twice.  Both times just had an oil leak out the weep hole (and yes, that means the oil is getting past the seal, thru the bearing in order to come out the weep hole).

The first one lasted about 12,000 miles, then went and leaked oil again.  I had a used pump donated from another rider on the bench, oil leak also. Replaced the seal, installed, lasted about,,,,,,,,2 minutes past engine start up.  So bit the bullet and got the pump from Murph (his comes with the seals, and an extra water pipe, for just in case).  Oh yeah, for the first pump, from what I can determine, the oil leaking thru appeared to make it over to the seal for the coolant side, and compromised that seal. The seal on the coolant side is a spring loaded, kinda like a carbon material seal? A weird set-up.
Almost reminded me of some of the bearing seals I saw in my previous career as a jet engine mechanic, except in miniature.

I know a new seal has worked for others for long term.  Me, for peace of mind, I'll just R & R from now on if need be.

Every once in a while I've heard of a w/pump failing on the coolant side, but, I know one of bikes probably had been leaking the oil for some time.  The predominate symptom seems to be the oil leaking first.

HTH

[Jet86]

I replaced my seal at 50k when it weep oil, more then 25k later its still holding good but if it ever leaks again i will just get a new one.

[Leo]

Because of the location, sometimes the clutch pushrod seal leaks and looks like the water pump leaks.  Double sheck that also, the pushrod seal is a lot easier to change.  Good Luck

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

Because of the location, sometimes the clutch pushrod seal leaks and looks like the water pump leaks.  Double sheck that also, the pushrod seal is a lot easier to change.  Good Luck

Thanks Leo. I will have to check it out. I looked at the fiche, but couldn't figure out which part was the pushrod seal. Do you have a part #?

[Summit670]

If it's an issue, I found it easier to see up under the bike using a 6" mirror after dark.  Shine the flashlight up into the area and use the mirror to see the parts.  To clean oil residue off I used a screwdriver with a rag on the end and kept working it around until the area in question was oil free, then after running the bike check to see where the new oil is originating from.

[SteveJ.]

overfilling the oil by 8oz or more is the number 1 cause for the inner waterpump oil seal to fail...
and yes, it can be replaced.

Another good reason when changing the oil to just dump in three quarts and call it good.

[GeeBeav]

Another good reason when changing the oil to just dump in three quarts and call it good.

What? And not fret over the sight glass indication? This is madness.

[T Cro ®]

Thanks Leo. I will have to check it out. I looked at the fiche, but couldn't figure out which part was the pushrod seal. Do you have a part #?

My clutch push rod seal leaked very early on and I think I found it listed in with the output shaft parts fiche. Careful changing it as it is easy to knock it into the engine; and a stinker to fish it out once you do.

[SteveJ.]

What? And not fret over the sight glass indication? This is madness.

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I cleaned off the water pump and it is certainly the cause of the leak. New seals came today, but it is very windy and snowing. My garage is too drafty to spend much time in with weather like this. Later this week it should make it up to the 40's and I can spend some time getting it fixed.

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

I got the water pump out and the oil seal was pushed out, so I know the reason that it was leaking oil. I do have a question about the pump. I put new grease in the bearing, but it turns kind of tight. There are is no noise or play like one would expect with a bad bearing, but it does not spin like I thought it would. I can turn it but hand, but it does not spin like a wheel bearing (as soon as I take my hand off it stops). How easily is this supposed to spin? Is it supposed to be tight?

[Summit670]

I don't think mine spun freely either but it has been a few years and I don't recall.

I think if it spins smoothly and doesn't feel loose, you're fine.

Wish I had put new grease in mine while I had it (water pump) out.

Don't forget, when putting in the new seal pay attention to orientation and putting loctite on it before you push it in place.  I say loctite because I believe that's what everyone was recommending but I expanded the seal a little by placing it in a vice and gently pressing a slightly larger socket (slight taper to the end of the socket) into the seal.  Use calipers to verify that it got expanded.  I then pressed it into place and much more hand pressure was needed.

Because I didn't want to drain the oil to change it, I tilted the bike to the right and rested the handlebar on the wall and tied it off so it couldn't roll.

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

Well, I got it back together and it is not leaking oil anymore. It is however leaking coolant now, so I will have to give Murph some more business. There is only a slight drip from the weep hole and a much bigger leak from where the water pipe meets the waterpump. Has anyone had a leak there? I did not replace the o ring on the water pipe, but it looked very good. Is there a better way of sealing this connection?

[Leo]

The only time I had a water leak on the water pipe was when the single little 10mm headed bolt had vibrated out.  All that was really holding it together was the nylon cable tie around the hoses.  Now I double check that little bolt once and a while and I put TWO cable ties around the hoses.  Two cable ties probably do not make much difference, but they make me feel better.

PS, Every Concours water pump I ever handled turned kind of stiff, it didn't matter if they were new or old.

[Dan in Grand Rapids]

Thanks for all the replies guys. The new water pump is in and the bike is not leaking oil or coolant.