Usage-specific tire recommendation please...

[julianop]

I have put 15,500 miles in 11 1/2 months on my 2006 fitted with a Dunlop Sportmax 120/70 ZR18 on the front and a Shinko SR777 150/80 R16 (H rated) on the rear. I spend a very large proportion of my miles slabbing from Minneapolis MN down I94 to Rockford IL and back - a 720 mile round trip - sometimes in weather that would cause most people to leave the bike in the garage. Add another 24 miles per day five days a week local, semi-rural travel and we're talking close to 1000 miles a week during the summer months, obviously less in winter. I've driven past cars parked on the side of the road in rainstorms on more than one occasion, not being afraid of the rain, so I need good wet weather tires.

My rear is getting a little flat (normally attentive, I got a little lax on tire pressure maintenance over the past couple of weeks), while the front still has plenty of tread left. I am a gentle rider, then, but not a slow rider, spending most of my time between 75 and 90.

So the question is: what tires should I look for to replace the rear now, and the front when necessary? I am of course open to changing them both together, if there is a recommended pair.

Thanks for all recommendations.

[Two Skies]

The tires I'd recommend for you are discontinued (grrr Michelin for discontinuing the Pilot GTs!!!).  That being said, I can say that the Avon AM42 Venom rear (in 'Wing' Size) seems to do alright in rainy conditions as well.

I can't speak to the other tires, as I haven't tried them yet.  I'm sure that others will chime in shortly with their rain experience with the higher mileage tire choices.

I could comfortably say, however, that the Metzeler ME880 is probably NOT a good traction tire, especially in rain.  I've seen several posts here that have talked about lowsides and such involving that tire in inclement weather, and less than stellar performance in general.

[julianop]

Thanks for that recommendation. I hear nothing but good things about the Avons, except for mileage, and as a "utility" rather than "discretionary" rider, that's a big issue.

I really do need input here, as I have absolutely no experience in this area at all.

Speaking of which, what do you mean by "'Wing' Size" ?

[xjs36uk]

Having been a long distance despatch rider tyres are always a critical consideration, back in the day when Michelin still made 16" Radials there was nothing else I would consider and clocked up close on 80,000 very hard miles on my first GTR, during which time I had only praise for the tyres.

Sadly Michelin in their infinite wisdom decided that radial 16" tyres were not worth their while to produce, so left anyone riding a 900R, 1000RX, C10, Eliminator, GSX (85-88 some models), Ducati 750 Paso's or 96 900 Fireblade with a serious issue. (and many other high performance bikes).

Thankfully, for those of us who remember such things, back when M59x (rear) and A59x (front) michelins were released, the A59x front had a triangular profile which gave some decidedly disconcerting handling charachteristics, many riders (me included) discovered that the Avon ST23 front was a perfect match for the Michelin rear and gave some awesome handling, stability and wear rates. Michelin realsing (eventually) their error launched the M90x and A90x only a couple of years after the 59's, these new tryes were an excellent improvement on an already good rear tyre and a remarkable turnaround on the front which to all intents and purposes was an almost identical copy to the Avon ST23 front.

Anyways I digress, the point I would like to say is that Avon and Michelin have followed a fairly close path over the years in the profile, compound and charachteristics departments of their tyres.

Currently Avon still make the Azaro Radial in 16", this coupled with a Michelin Pilot Road or Pilot Road2 gives an excellent combination for stability, grip and wear in most weather conditions. The Azaro sometimes being described as a bit hard is a worthy tyre giving around 5500 miles with reasonably spirited riding, the Michelins having a softer compound and give a wonderfully neutral balanced feel to the front end, excellent wet grip and life expectancy in the 7,000 mi + range (10-12k is not unknown even with hard riding). I refrained from using the new Road3 Michelin as I felt the difference in technology between the Azaro and the Road3 is too great to give a comfortable medium, the Road3 having exceptional grip in all conditions, especially the wet.

This is my recommendation for the Moment, I personally will not run anything that's not a radial as I do tend to ride quite hard and fast and don't trust Bias belted tyres at all.

Avon ST Azaro AV46 150/80 ZR16 rear
Michelin Pilot Road2 110/80 ZR18 front

[Daytona_Mike]

Upgrading the rear rim to a Mean Streak 17x5 inch rim opened up the tire choices dramatically   plus it gives you a modern and much improved  tire profile you cannot get with the 16x3.5 stock rim.
With the 17 you can now  purchase the better made  dual compound rear tires like the Avorn Storm Ultra 2 and the  Michelin PR3 and PR2 which not only last well but have more grip in the rain than any other  touring or sport/touring tire made.
The handling is much better with the  improved contact patch in the corners and one other thing I noticed.
When I had the 16 inch rim and the tire went flat due to a slow leak, the bike would always throw itself to the ground off the side stand but not with a 17.

[julianop]

Great idea ... if I can afford it..

It sounds like a project for the winter, though - if we have one that grounds me this year: we didn't last year :-)
Except that my Shinko 777 won't last that long.

Is there anyone I can contact via this site who I can pay to do the work for me?

What do we do with the front if we up the back to 16? No change? I take it the outside diameter doesn't change that much because of changes in aspect ratio?

Final question for now, repeated from my previous post: what is meant by "wing sizes" ?

I did say I was inexperienced in this area, didn't I?!

Thanks for answering my "noob" questions.

[Boomer343]

Wing as in Honda Gold Wing.....lots of them around so tires are easy to find in their specific size and load spec.

As to the meanstreak wheel it is indeed an upgrade but not in the "more miles from your tires" category so if your first criteria is mileage then you can stick with the OE size.

I believe the mileage champ is the Metzler 880 but having had them on my own bike I would suggest you go with something else.....

[enim57]

Long life and grip do not go together with any tyre. I have never got 15500 miles from a rear tyre regardless of bike, make, construction, etc. So I think you're doing very well. Do a search as a lot of tyres are still available for 16" wheel and don't be afraid of bias plies they're fine. Once they were all that could be got and they were raced on at higher speeds than you are quoting and they are H rated which is 210 kph (130 mph) continuous, some are even V rated 240 kph.

Avon tyres have been known to have carcass failures, there are threads on this.

Regards, Russell

[Two Skies]

Thanks for that recommendation. I hear nothing but good things about the Avons, except for mileage, and as a "utility" rather than "discretionary" rider, that's a big issue.

I really do need input here, as I have absolutely no experience in this area at all.

Speaking of which, what do you mean by "'Wing' Size" ?

The Avon Venom rear is more of a mileage tire, as opposed to the sportier tires that Avon makes.  I'm pretty happy with it.  Nice tradeoff of handling versus wear, but then I'm not really a performance rider.  I'm still working on wearing out my Pilot GT front; I managed about 19,200 miles or so out of the last one.  The rear should exceed 10,000 miles easily (looks like 12K is the magic number), and I currently have about 9000 miles on said rear at the moment.

As for 'Wing' size, this is:

160/80/16 for the rear
130/70/18 for the front

These are slightly larger than the 'regular' sized tires, but fit the Connie.  The increased circumference is about 2-3% larger, which results in slightly lower revs on the engine at speed, and in my case corrected the 2-3% inaccuracy of my speedo (my speedo is now pretty much dead on).  The larger tires do affect handling, but I'd say in a good way for touring as the gyroscopic effect is increased with the heavier weight of the tires.  This helps counter buffeting around big rigs and such, but then I'm comparing against the 'stock' Dunflops that originally came with the bike of course.

The Avon AM41 Venom front is the 'matched' tire for the Venom rear.  I'm hearing good things about the Shinko 777's and such on this forum, though, and am following the ride reports on these.

[datsaxman@hotmail.com]

Running GW size Bridgestone BT45 "rear" tire in the front.  Got over 20,000 on it so far, and over half the tread left.  Yes, I measure the tread depth.  Folks that think "good handling" means "falls into the turn with no effort" will not like that setup, since it takes a little more effort to induce direction changes.  whtvr.

Rain, Death Valley heat in Summer, even some snow.  It seems to handle the weather just fine.

CT on the rear...also unexpectedly good in the weather.  Same mileage.  (Ducking)


I threw those on last year for a long distance rally.  Did not want to need a tire change in the middle of it, right?  That was no problem.

[Two Skies]

Running GW size Bridgestone BT45 "rear" tire in the front.  Got over 20,000 on it so far, and over half the tread left.  Yes, I measure the tread depth.  Folks that think "good handling" means "falls into the turn with no effort" will not like that setup, since it takes a little more effort to induce direction changes.  whtvr.

Rain, Death Valley heat in Summer, even some snow.  It seems to handle the weather just fine.

CT on the rear...also unexpectedly good in the weather.  Same mileage.  (Ducking)


I threw those on last year for a long distance rally.  Did not want to need a tire change in the middle of it, right?  That was no problem.

Hey datsaxman, I've been wondering what you've been up to!  Good to see that you are still giving the Car Tire On A Connie naysayers something to talk about!

[SteveJ.]

I had yo replace an Avon Venom rear, in stock size, prematurely this year due to Carcass failure. I've read and heard about quite few others, also. I replaced it with a Michelin Commander II. The Commander II really rides and handles nice and seems to wear very well. 2.5k mi so far. The bad part. I road home from work in the rain the other day, that Commander II is all about breaking loose on a corner extremely easy, I think even worse than the Metz 880 I had on there many moons ago. It's coming off next week, too dangerous. I'm still trying to figure out how to post up to the NTSB on it. It is truly that bad.

I ordered up a Shinko Journey890 in the Wing size, 160/80R(yes, it's a radial)/18. I've heard good on them, and am using different Shinko tires on my KLR with excellent results. We'll see how that works.

If this bike didn't have 170k miles on it, I would do a Mean streak Conversion. Folks are getting 10-12k mi with good, modern rubber on the rear, going to this 17" wheel.

[jim snyder]

So the question is: what tires should I look for to replace the rear now, and the front when necessary? I am of course open to changing them both together, if there is a recommended pair.

Thanks for all recommendations.

Hey Julianop,
  After wearing out my last Pilot GT I tried a set of the Avon AM-26's. They are bias ply but you would never know it. They do not have the heavy handling like most bias ply tires do. I ran them at the National this year in Arkansas and they performed great. Daytona Mike can attest to how well they handle. They are available
in stock C-10 sizes. I used the 110/80-18 front and the 150/80-16 rear.

[datsaxman@hotmail.com]

Hey Two Skies,

Naysayers??  CTs on Connies??  K700 and K701 are the best!!  Love that knife-edge front tire in the rain!  Just like riding a 250!!

How's that? 

Nuthin' to look at here, folks...move along now... that idiot with the CT will fall over the first time he gets to a corner...it will be riding on the sidewall...or go up in flames...or the rear drive will explode from the stress...or something BAD is gonna happen for sure...it just ain't right I tell ya...

[snarf]

Hey Two Skies,

Naysayers??  CTs on Connies??  K700 and K701 are the best!!  Love that knife-edge front tire in the rain!  Just like riding a 250!!

How's that? 

Nuthin' to look at here, folks...move along now... that idiot with the CT will fall over the first time he gets to a corner...it will be riding on the sidewall...or go up in flames...or the rear drive will explode from the stress...or something BAD is gonna happen for sure...it just ain't right I tell ya...

At least you take it all in good humor.  My father rides a GL1800 wing and pulls a bunkhouse camper so you can bet he is a darksider.

[datsaxman@hotmail.com]

Humor...most def...

What else can I do?  Typical scenario is that a guy wearing a pirate getup with 5,000 miles on a 10 year old cruiser wants to tell me that it won't work.  A super helpful rider told me that at a gas stop last year during a three day rally I was in.  2500 miles from home, he told me "You won't go one tank of gas before that thing will start causing trouble...bike won't handle right..." 

I mean...how seriously CAN I take that guy?

Seriously, folks...never put a non-stock tire on your bike. 


Hey, what kind of oil do you like? 

[julianop]

Oh heck, don't start talking oil, please ;-)

So, I'm interested in the Venoms, but I'm having trouble getting a matched pair of either stock sizes or wing sizes...
would a 110/90-18 be OK in front (instead of the 110/80-18) to match a 150/80-16 ?
I can get those from Chaparral...

What the heck are CTs/Car Tires ?? Sorry, I'm just not up on the vernacular yet :-(
 

[Roadhound]

If you are going to run the Avon Venom on the rear, I would recommend the Avon Storm Ultra in the 110/80/18 size. I've a good friend who runs this combination, he has been well pleased with this combo. I've ridden his Concours and the tires work very well on it. I'm mounting a new pair of the same tires on his bike this weekend.

The Storm Ultra front is an excellent front tire, it gets good mileage, and sticks very well wet or dry.

[julianop]

Yes, I was wondering about the Storm Ultra, Roadhound, after I saw it in the Avon website. It certainly looks decent.

So the favorite combos now are Venom/Storm Ultra and Azaro/Pilot Road2...

What about an Azaro ST (rear)/Storm Ultra (front) combo ? They're both Avons, both high mileage, both sport tourers, both claimed to be good all-weather.

Unless someone wants to chip in on the 110/90-18 vs 110/80-18 question? The slight increase in diameter might not be a problem, and the guy I spoke to at Revzilla seemed to be strongly in favor of a matched set. He also strongly agreed with Two Skies' comment about increased gyroscopic stability, so I also have a slight preference for a Venom/Venom combo if there are Wing sizes for both in that series.

I just noticed that Avon actually suggest the Azaro ST 150/80ZR16(rear)/Storm Ultra 120/70ZR18(front) combo. Any objections/warnings ?

[T Cro ®]

The 110/90-18 is not a good fit.... Go with an Avon 110/80-18 radial or a 130/70-18 bias such as the Venom. I've run the GoldWing sized Venoms and liked them a lot.