The BMW is the benchmark?
Yeah because a tweak in bodywork and cruise control make it so much better. It still is down in power, handling, and almost every other category compared to the other bikes. Having it along for the ride lets them point out how vastly improved the new models are. Really, if you don't think bike mag comparos are biased....seriously?
Don't shoot the messenger.
Just curious. Ever ridden one?
Nope, and have zero desire to either. My next rig will be smaller and lighter than the C14, pretty convinced less is more for me. The only BMW that I would love to ride and especially own would be the S1000RR.
I rode the S1000RR. Nice toy I suppose, but incredibly uncomfortable.
Lighter is nice too, which is why I am anxious to ride the new RT with the water cooled boxer. The new GS is a hoot with the added power
I have not ridden the GT, FJR or trophy. But just sitting on the bikes stationary the Trophy feels just about right. The only stock seat I feel I could live with. Neither the RT or GT fit me like the Trophy. One of the testers said something interesting about the Trophy, he said it is the bike to own if you just cannot bring yourself to buy a Goldwing. I predict now these will do real well by IBR riders.
It should be, its the top of the top for both performance and price. Nothing else compares to it (other than maybe on a drag strip). As a sport-tourer, nothing can touch it. I didn;t realize thats not a known fact.
What bike you know of surpasses it as far as sport-touring type performance, and standard OEM sport-touring features? The suspension alone is outrageous and trumps everything in the sport-touring class.
errr... no, it isn't. I recently did a 1000 miles tour to the alps with a... ahem... experienced group, 45 motorcycles in total, with a few K1600GTs and GTLs. Very experienced drivers on them, on full attack mode, and I was easily following them, sometimes with ONE HAND on the handlebar and tons of leaning angle to spare. Engine-wise, as long as you don't use the 6th on the C14 (much, much longer than the equivalent on the Beemer or any other bike, for that matter), there's nothing to worry about. I'd love ESA, though.
eng943, that's a well documented post, thanks.
I have to disagree on the handling part, which I found particularly noticeable while on a trip with a friend with his K16 and me on the Kawa, and we were swapping back and forth. Every time I got back on the C14 I felt like I was driving such a nimble, light bike, and the K16 felt like a whale. But as you well put it: each person appreciates different traits on a bike. One thing that puzzles me is how easy it is to take a hairpin on the BMW and how scary it can get on the Kawasaki. But that's about it. Everywhere else I take the Kawasaki without thinking, unless it's a two up trip, then the misses is happieronin the BMW.
Another thing that usually goes unnoticed until someone points it out at you is the throttle lag, that half a second that the BMW takes to respond to throttle inputs due to one-butterfly design and such a long intake. The I6 lack of vibes is neat, but the I4 from the C14 is amazingly smooth. So, to summarize: those 2 factors, together with the paralever, make for a very detached feeling which I don't care for, like driving a 7-series. Some actually like that very feeling; I (as you remarked) prefer conventional forks.
I think he was speaking to the overall capabilities of the bike, not specifically handling and acceleration. To a vast segment of the sport-touring market, while those attibutes are generally desired, they are not the be all end all of deciding which ST bike is the right choice.
Now, having owned both my exprience is has been that as delivered, the K16 handles better than a C14 or FJR. It steers much lighter than the C14, exhibits no funky brake dive or squirrly linked brake behavior. However, when I added PR3's and went to a 190/55 in the rear, my C14 handled just as well I thought, minus the lamented linked brakes and associated brake dive. Upgrading the Z8's on the K16 might advance the handling capability as it did on my C14. Both offer handling capabilities far beyond the scope of an average rider, let's be honest.
To me, the measure of a sport touring bike goes beyond how fast or how well it may handle. Admittedly, even handling is subjective, as some prefer different handling traits. I can tell you going from duolever to conventional forks and back a few times always gets noticed, and takes me quite some time to adjust. Some guys like conventional forks only, personally, I have come to really dislike them for sport touring. It gets very annoying having my passenger slide into me every time I brake on the C14.
I think the C14 and FJR represent the ST purists in a sense. They most certainly are the best value around with minimal gadjets and conveniences, leaving it to owners to farkle accordingly. Less emphasis on wind protection, more sporting rider ergonomics, etc.
On the other hand Triumph and BMW try to let you have your cake and eat it too. They provide machines that provide better weather protection, comfort/conveniences/refinement, better two up platforms, and give it to you with a very sporting balance of performance and more refinement, and arguably do so beyond the FJR and C14.
I can tell you this much. As good as the C14 engine is, if Kawi plopped in a butter smooth torque monster I6, that would really be something. Nothing beats an engine that is naturally banced, and the more holes the better!
There is no wrong choice, but it is almost impossible to argue that the Trophy and K16 in particular are at the head of the class in terms of their broader capability.
Just curious, Did you spend much time setting up your C14 suspension or tinker with it? It took me awhile to get mine set up for optimal handling but I can corner better on my Connie than I can on my Ninja 1000 as the N1k's suspension was not manufactured with a 245lbs rider in mind. (Olins in it's future?) By setting mine up correctly, i don't have any noticeable brake dive. Just have to worry about flying over the handlebars.
I have ridden a new Trophy and K1600GT and for me, the C14 was definitely the better canyon carver, but, It's no cushy ride when set up this way when the road gets rough. That to me is where the Trophy and K16 show the superior suspension's ability to perform well while giving that cushy ride.
eng943, that's a well documented post, thanks.
I have to disagree on the handling part, which I found particularly noticeable while on a trip with a friend with his K16 and me on the Kawa, and we were swapping back and forth. Every time I got back on the C14 I felt like I was driving such a nimble, light bike, and the K16 felt like a whale. But as you well put it: each person appreciates different traits on a bike. One thing that puzzles me is how easy it is to take a hairpin on the BMW and how scary it can get on the Kawasaki. But that's about it. Everywhere else I take the Kawasaki without thinking, unless it's a two up trip, then the misses is happieronin the BMW.
Another thing that usually goes unnoticed until someone points it out at you is the throttle lag, that half a second that the BMW takes to respond to throttle inputs due to one-butterfly design and such a long intake. The I6 lack of vibes is neat, but the I4 from the C14 is amazingly smooth. So, to summarize: those 2 factors, together with the paralever, make for a very detached feeling which I don't care for, like driving a 7-series. Some actually like that very feeling; I (as you remarked) prefer conventional forks.
eng943, that's a well documented post, thanks.
I have to disagree on the handling part, which I found particularly noticeable while on a trip with a friend with his K16 and me on the Kawa, and we were swapping back and forth. Every time I got back on the C14 I felt like I was driving such a nimble, light bike, and the K16 felt like a whale. But as you well put it: each person appreciates different traits on a bike. One thing that puzzles me is how easy it is to take a hairpin on the BMW and how scary it can get on the Kawasaki. But that's about it. Everywhere else I take the Kawasaki without thinking, unless it's a two up trip, then the misses is happieronin the BMW.
Another thing that usually goes unnoticed until someone points it out at you is the throttle lag, that half a second that the BMW takes to respond to throttle inputs due to one-butterfly design and such a long intake. The I6 lack of vibes is neat, but the I4 from the C14 is amazingly smooth. So, to summarize: those 2 factors, together with the paralever, make for a very detached feeling which I don't care for, like driving a 7-series. Some actually like that very feeling; I (as you remarked) prefer conventional forks.
I think that the throttle lag is endemic of anything accelerated by wire. The computer is calling the shots, not the rider. I quick twist doesn't necessarily translate to the same thing at the TB butterfly. On Motorhead Garage they had a device that removed that lag (now this was for a truck, I think) and could change it for road or track or some other condition. I don't see why that couldn't be done somehow for these fly by wire bikes.That's why I pulled the secondaries.