Flyectomy how to thread??

[blackmax]

I've been searching for a thread with how to steps on the secondary fly removal and can't seem to find one. Can someone post a link to one please ? Thanks in advance!

[Jeremy Mitchell]

I think it was lost in the forunami of 2010 but here is a good pictorial from a ZX-14.  Just remember to heat up the screws with soldering iron and a sacrificial screwdriver before you put the JIS # 2 in there to break the flies free.

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html

[blackmax]

Thanks, was pretty straight forward took about 10 minutes once the tank was up. A little twist to the right to break the lock tite free then they all came out easy as pie. Added my PCV and went for a rip....NICE!!!!!! Should have done this to my first C-14 four years ago!

[connie1]

After reading the flyectomy post I started wondering if you could just cut 10-20% of of the fly's and reinstall them.
Would there be any benefits to doing this?

I'm not looking for any huge power increases from my bike (it'll go plenty fast right now) I'd just like a little better bottom end and to smooth out that kick in the ass @ 5000 rpm.

Anybody with some opinions on this?

[gPink]

I think that someone went down that road sometime ago. If you remove the secondary butterflys just leave them out.

[B.D.F.]

You could do that but then you would need to have the bike run on a dyno to make a custom map for the Power Commander.

Besides that, the bike runs so well without the 'flies that there is no point in moving 25% of the way toward removing them IMO. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by making the 'flies smaller but leaving them in place; besides that, you would have to be very careful to remove the exact same amount of material from each butterfly and then position each butterfly in the same relative location in each bore so the cylinders fill to the same levels at partial throttle positions. Just take them out and be done with it, again IMO.

Brian

After reading the flyectomy post I started wondering if you could just cut 10-20% of of the fly's and reinstall them.
Would there be any benefits to doing this?

I'm not looking for any huge power increases from my bike (it'll go plenty fast right now) I'd just like a little better bottom end and to smooth out that kick in the ass @ 5000 rpm.

Anybody with some opinions on this?

[B.D.F.]

It takes at least 350F degrees to cause Loctite to lose 1/2 of its bonding strength. I do not believe it would be worth bothering with a soldering iron as it would not put enough heat into the screws fast enough; my original suggestion was to heat up a [old, junk] screwdriver until the end was red and sink it into each screw for about five seconds. Reheat the screwdriver after each screw heat sinking. And be sure to allow the screws to fully cool (so you can touch them with a bare hand) before trying to remove them; the heat is to break down the thread locker, not to help in the actual screw removal.

Brian

I think it was lost in the forunami of 2010 but here is a good pictorial from a ZX-14.  Just remember to heat up the screws with soldering iron and a sacrificial screwdriver before you put the JIS # 2 in there to break the flies free.

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html

[Jeremy Mitchell]

It takes at least 350F degrees to cause Loctite to lose 1/2 of its bonding strength. I do not believe it would be worth bothering with a soldering iron as it would not put enough heat into the screws fast enough; my original suggestion was to heat up a [old, junk] screwdriver until the end was red and sink it into each screw for about five seconds. Reheat the screwdriver after each screw heat sinking. And be sure to allow the screws to fully cool (so you can touch them with a bare hand) before trying to remove them; the heat is to break down the thread locker, not to help in the actual screw removal.

Brian

Maybe I was lucky that it worked perfectly for me, and now that I think about it I used the soldering iron directly on the screws (no sacrificial screwdriver involved since I have a small soldering iron).  I think the biggest issue is having a good quality JIS #2 to ensure the screws don't get "boogered" up.

[marku8a]

I didn't bother using heat. I used a new JIS #2 screw driver bought specifically for this job. No problem getting the screws out for me.

Mark

[wildnphx]

It takes at least 350F degrees to cause Loctite to lose 1/2 of its bonding strength. I do not believe it would be worth bothering with a soldering iron as it would not put enough heat into the screws fast enough; my original suggestion was to heat up a [old, junk] screwdriver until the end was red and sink it into each screw for about five seconds. Reheat the screwdriver after each screw heat sinking. And be sure to allow the screws to fully cool (so you can touch them with a bare hand) before trying to remove them; the heat is to break down the thread locker, not to help in the actual screw removal.

Brian

This is the method I followed with a torch and a old screw driver and they came out perfectly with no need for any special screw driver...  I did try one without much heat and it would not move but once I had the tip of the screw driver glowing and applied to the screw for a few minutes it came out super easy.

[blackmax]

Having worked in the marine industry for so long and dealing with stainless fasteners used in all kinds of materials where the screws seem to weld themselves in ( as if using loctite) I've determined that the most effective way to remove them is to just give them a little twist to the right  then back them out. Works every time. Did this with my fly removal using a regular #2 Philips and didn't have a single screw "cam out" .  BTW fpor those still on the fence about doing the PCV and flyectomy, the bike is definitely better on the bottom end now, runs clean and is frickin' FAST !

[B.D.F.]

I do not think a soldering iron has enough heat (not temperature) to actually break the thread locking agent on those (or any) screws either. The problem is that the iron is 800F to start with but it cannot transfer enough heat to drive the temp. of the screw to 350F or more before the heat is wicked away by the throttle plate rod. Put another way, you cannot put heat in fast enough starting with that low of a temp. All in my opinion of course because I have not actually tested any of it. But a piece of steel that is glowing will be at or above 1,000F (1,500F if it is orange) and the contact area of the screwdriver to screw head is much larger than a soldering iron tip to screw head so a lot more heat will be transferred.

I am sure your method worked but I think it was effectively the same as taking them out without any heat source. I have pulled several sets of 'flies out of Kawasakis and always done it by simply unscrewing them without any external heat. I think the real key is using enough down pressure on the screwdriver and using a well- fitting driver head in the first place. But only a few examples are not enough to really base an opinion on- we would have to do quite a few examples both cold as well as pre- heated to get a statistical idea of whether or not it is really beneficial.

Brian

Maybe I was lucky that it worked perfectly for me, and now that I think about it I used the soldering iron directly on the screws (no sacrificial screwdriver involved since I have a small soldering iron).  I think the biggest issue is having a good quality JIS #2 to ensure the screws don't get "boogered" up.