Guys,

As most of You have read in my post last week I just had my valves checked by the dealer at 37k
and they were all within spec. I also had him do a map showing the clearances as He measured
them to be.

I have bought Fred's videos and I have watched him do the valve adjustments however
even with the videos I still don't feel confident enough to try doing a valve adjustment on my
own. I am afraid that I would get the bike torn all apart and then panic.

Here is my question though.
I cannot believe that something as intense as doing a valve adjustment would not VOID the warranty
if there was a problem afterwards with something that Kawasaki could say was related to the owner
doing the valve adjustment.

Then there is the scenario of not having the dealer do a valve adjustment at the 15K interval as the manual says
and then having  some problem that Kawasaki could say that was caused by NOT having the valves
adjusted as the manual states.

later,
C14-Pilot

Here is my question though.
I cannot believe that something as intense as doing a valve adjustment would not VOID the warranty
if there was a problem afterwards with something that Kawasaki could say was related to the owner
doing the valve adjustment.

I have yet to hear of any warranty claim that was denied because it was related to a failure to perform a valve adjustment....and I don't think warranty will ever be an issue if the valve adjustment is performed correctly.  The bottom line is that if you can't do a valve adjustment correctly then take the bike to a dealer.  If you can do it correctly, don't worry about the warranty because you are not going to need it.  If Kawasaki rejects a warranty claim because of a dealers failure to perform a  correct valve adjustment then its going to be the dealer's responsibility to fix the damages.

If the owner elects to put off the valve check past the 15K requirement, then said owner is assuming all risks for the consequences of that decision, which to me is a bit foolish unless they are intending to sell the bike in the near future.  The biggest risk is not to do a valve check at all so almost everyone will do one sooner or later...so you might as well do the first one on time and keep the warranty intact...and provide some useful data to make a cost effective decision when the next check should be performed.

I agree with JSA on the warranty aspect.  If it works afterwards and you are happy I don't see where Kwak would have an issue with it.  We have seen some members have issues after the valve job (possibly caused by them...treading lightly here) where the dealer had to wind up fixing it.  I don't believe that those fixes were covered.  I've seen enough evidence here to want it done by a Kwak tech at a dealer I trust rather than me (whom I have little trust in doing that kind of work).  I also don't have the time to spend on it to do it right.  To those that do, I salute you and give you a  . 

It is really simple.  If you aren't competent or do no have time to do the valve adjustment, either don't do it or have someone else do it.  OTOH, it is a bit presumptuous to assume that other owners can't do a good job on it. 

Of course, there was one forum member who created a legendary thread and reputation with his valve-adjusting adventure.

It is really simple.  If you aren't competent or do no have time to do the valve adjustment, either don't do it or have someone else do it.  OTOH, it is a bit presumptuous to assume that other owners can't do a good job on it. 

Of course, there was one forum member who created a legendary thread and reputation with his valve-adjusting adventure.

Those are good points.  I don't want to hijack this thread with opinions on how complex or not a valve adjust/check is so I'm going to create another thread on just that....

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6542.0

There are only a few specific failures that could be related to a bad valve adjustment or failure to perform valve inspection/adjustment. If you do your inspection/adjustment correctly none of these should happen. If you break a part R/R'ing or miss-time your cams that's on you. I am not a particularly good mechanic but I feel if I take my time I have a better chance of doing a good job than any of the Kawasaki dealers within my reach.

Just a side note to show how bad it can get in Bayou Country. Last year one of the Kawasaki dealers I did not trust was indicted for money laundering: "conspired with multiple individuals to launder proceeds of narcotics trafficking ".

Fully document the job - complete with charts showing clearances.  Document the date you did the job. 

While they could fight you, they would have to prove that not adjusting the valves contributed to the failure (Magneson-Moss act).   No question that they could deny the coverage and let you spend two years fighting it, but that is just a call you have to make as to what you think the risk is.  Let's be honest, most people who do their own work will do it after the warranty has expired, and at that point you are knowingly putting your mechanical competence on the line because if there is a failure you will be on the hook anyway because there is no more warranty.

When I used to do all my own work on my race bike back in the '80s, I put it all back together and promptly took the the bike to Texas World Speedway and ran it up to 130 mph down the front straight and braked for turn one.  At that point you have to have confidence in your own work.

Fully document the job - complete with charts showing clearances.  Document the date you did the job. 

While they could fight you, they would have to prove that not adjusting the valves contributed to the failure (Magneson-Moss act).   No question that they could deny the coverage and let you spend two years fighting it, but that is just a call you have to make as to what you think the risk is.  Let's be honest, most people who do their own work will do it after the warranty has expired, and at that point you are knowingly putting your mechanical competence on the line because if there is a failure you will be on the hook anyway because there is no more warranty.

When I used to do all my own work on my race bike back in the '80s, I put it all back together and promptly took the the bike to Texas World Speedway and ran it up to 130 mph down the front straight and braked for turn one.  At that point you have to have confidence in your own work.

What year and what classes? I was at TWS in 85 & 86.

Sure, no mfg. is going to warranty anything after an owner or operator hacked into it. We have seen that very thing happen too, right here on this forum, in living color. I won't mention anyone's name but there was a gentleman who had some trouble doing a valve lash adjustment and had residual problems; the crank timing wheel was left loose and eventually fell off, and the cam sprocket bolts backed out and stuck the sprocket well inside the head. Two different events, two separate repairs and the owner was billed pretty substantially for each one. He took it very well though (the guy has a fantastically good attitude toward everything in life it seems) but it does serve as a 'head's up' for others who much like yourself are on the fence about doing this work yourself.

The other side of the coin is if you do a valve lash adjustment correctly it is unlikely that a mfg. would really press you about any other warranty work on the bike.

The question would be if an owner did his / her own work and something somehow related to that aspect of the engine really did fail due to a defect in mfg. or original assembly. The owner would no doubt resist paying for the repair under those circumstances while the mfg. would also resist paying for it. It is one of the risks of doing work on a device still under warranty albeit a very small risk IMO.

Brian

Guys,

<snip>

Here is my question though.
I cannot believe that something as intense as doing a valve adjustment would not VOID the warranty
if there was a problem afterwards with something that Kawasaki could say was related to the owner
doing the valve adjustment.

Then there is the scenario of not having the dealer do a valve adjustment at the 15K interval as the manual says
and then having  some problem that Kawasaki could say that was caused by NOT having the valves
adjusted as the manual states.

later,
C14-Pilot

What year and what classes? I was at TWS in 85 & 86.

I raced at Henderson (Oak Hill) & TWS in 81, 82 & 83 and did some endurance racing in '84.  If you raced there you might remember Ronnie Lunsford.  He was a friend of mine back then, and still is.

I raced at Henderson (Oak Hill) & TWS in 81, 82 & 83 and did some endurance racing in '84.  If you raced there you might remember Ronnie Lunsford.  He was a friend of mine back then, and still is.

That name sounds familar but I can't place it. I remember Donahoe and Moen and of course Jamie James and Polen. I crashed a couple times at both TWS and Oak Hill. The Suzuki contingincy money ruined club racing for me, I was trying to compete with pros.

This is spelled out pretty well on the FTC web site http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt192.shtm

you'll see where they say:

Do I have to use the dealer for repairs and maintenance to keep my warranty in effect?

No. An independent mechanic, a retail chain shop, or even you yourself can do routine maintenance and repairs on your vehicle. In fact, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is enforced by the FTC, makes it illegal for manufacturers or dealers to claim that your warranty is void or to deny coverage under your warranty simply because someone other than the dealer did the work. That said, there may be certain situations where a repair may not be covered. For example, if you or your mechanic replaced a belt improperly and your engine is damaged as a result, your manufacturer or dealer may deny responsibility for fixing the engine under the warranty. However, according to the FTC, the manufacturer or dealer must be able to demonstrate that it was the improper belt replacement — rather than some other defect — that caused the damage to your engine. The warranty would still be in effect for other parts of your car.

So I woudl say, check away.  The only way a Manufacturer could force you to do this valve check is to provide the service free of charge.

That name sounds familar but I can't place it. I remember Donahoe and Moen and of course Jamie James and Polen. I crashed a couple times at both TWS and Oak Hill. The Suzuki contingincy money ruined club racing for me, I was trying to compete with pros.

I knew Doug and he was always very friendly.  I remember Jamie but I never knew him personally.  The other two names I don't recall.  Ronnie and "Hogman" (Paul Stephenson) were the best racers in Texas at the time other than the few that went pro.  I actually did a riders school with John Kocinski when he was 12 years old. 

I knew Doug and he was always very friendly.  I remember Jamie but I never knew him personally.  The other two names I don't recall.  Ronnie and "Hogman" (Paul Stephenson) were the best racers in Texas at the time other than the few that went pro.  I actually did a riders school with John Kocinski when he was 12 years old.

I remember Kocinski wringing out a 250 at TWS and Polen on a KZ1000 sideways at every turn at Oak Hill battling it out with Meryl Moen on a 900 Ninja. Before he went racing, Jamie worked at the shop in baton Rouge where I bought my first Kawasaki, an 84 900 Ninja. We were sitting around one Sat. at the shop and Jamie said: "lets go roadracing in Texas". We thought he was joking...

Why can't they build a high RPM bike with hydraulic valve lifters?  I know it has to do with valve float at high RPMs, but someone should invent something that would not require manual valve adjustment, especially replacing the shims.

Why can't they build a high RPM bike with hydraulic valve lifters?  I know it has to do with valve float at high RPMs, but someone should invent something that would not require manual valve adjustment, especially replacing the shims.

Pesky Laws of Physics keep getting in the way of such things....

Why can't they build a high RPM bike with hydraulic valve lifters?  I know it has to do with valve float at high RPMs, but someone should invent something that would not require manual valve adjustment, especially replacing the shims.

My old (1984) Honda Nighthawk S had hydraulic valve lifters and I believe the redline was 10,500 rpm.  One would think it would be possible.

EDIT - just looked it up online.  Redline was 10,750, with the rev limiter kicking in at 11,500 rpm.

What is the running cost for having the dealer do the valve adjustment?

I am watching Fred's dvd's and even though I enjoy turning wrenches it looks to be a tedious process and if an accidental mistake is made engine failure is certain.  Based on what I saw $500-600 seems VERY reasonable.  My problem is that I have heard testimonials about dealers taking money for work that is never done.  That is a lot of money to trust the work has been done and correctly.  I will teeter totter on this when the time comes.  I would not hesitate paying $500.00 if the shop is trustworthy and will provide a map of their work.  Anybody know a great shop in Eastern Virginia?  thanks