Not Another Oil Thread?

[Rhino]

18,300 miles and 3 oil changes on Rotella T6. Been using it in 4 different bikes and 2 ATV's going on 10 years now.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

I have used the T6 but it seemed to make the shifter a little notchy after 2000 or so miles.  I switched to the regular 15-40 Rotella and it seems to perform great and the best part is that I can do an oil change with a K&N filter for under $30.

[Just Krusen]

I have used the T6 but it seemed to make the shifter a little notchy after 2000 or so miles.  I switched to the regular 15-40 Rotella and it seems to perform great and the best part is that I can do an oil change with a K&N filter for under $30.

I had the same results on my Wing.  Shifting is much better with the 15w-40.  My Wing has been using the 15w-40 now for over 150,000 miles and is running great.

[Mad River Marc]

Would 20w50 be ok for a Connie?

[Rhino]

Would 20w50 be ok for a Connie?

According to the owners manual 20w50 is ok in temps above 32 degrees F.

[Dade22]

The older Rotella 5W-40 synthetic worked pretty well for me in a C-14 but the newer stuff causes stiff, clunky shifting. The 15W-40 works better, especially when mixed with Pennzoil 10W-40 in equal amounts.

Modern oils have greatly reduced the content of ZDDP and this seems to have resulted in poorer shifting in motorcycles in general. It is also harder on flat tappet cam types although that issue is widely debated.

Adding an ounce or so of cam break- in lube brings the ZDDP content back up to older standards and makes a big difference the feel of both shifting and clutch behavior. Gives the oil a nice red tinge too that is very attractive in the sight glass.... 

Brian

BDF,

With the Rotella T6 would you mix in the cam break in lube also?  I have ran the T6 for a while now with no clunky shifting, but I  also change it at 2500.

Thanks

[B.D.F.]

Yes, I use cam break- in lube in any oil I use in the bike. One of the changes in the latest mix of Rotella oils has been the reduction of zinc content. Flat tappet cam engines benefit from an additive made of zinc and phosphorus in a chemical form called ZDDP. Motor oils used to contain at least 1,000 PPM and some as much as 1,800 PPM but the US gov't has requested, and all motor oil suppliers as far as I know have complied, a new max. level of 800 PPM. The zinc in the additive <can> coat a catalytic converter and render it non- functional but this is really only a problem in older vehicles with tired engines that consume oil. So I try to bring the ZDDP content back up to at least the 1,200 PPM range or just a tad more. ZDDP is one of those additives that are beneficial but can be detrimental if overused so I try not to go overboard.

It is pretty clearly not necessary as there are a lot of motorcycles (which are all flat tappet designs as far as I know) using current motor oil but it makes me happy and it also makes the bike shift considerably smoother and with less effort.

Brian

BDF,

With the Rotella T6 would you mix in the cam break in lube also?  I have ran the T6 for a while now with no clunky shifting, but I  also change it at 2500.

Thanks

[stevewfl]

Both Rotella T (15W-40 dino) and Rotella T6 (5W-40 syn) are JASO MA certified.  Your choice as whether you like them, but they are both acceptable for motorcycles with wet clutches.

+1

[lt1]

Yes, I use cam break- in lube in any oil I use in the bike. One of the changes in the latest mix of Rotella oils has been the reduction of zinc content. Flat tappet cam engines benefit from an additive made of zinc and phosphorus in a chemical form called ZDDP. Motor oils used to contain at least 1,000 PPM and some as much as 1,800 PPM but the US gov't has requested, and all motor oil suppliers as far as I know have complied, a new max. level of 800 PPM. The zinc in the additive <can> coat a catalytic converter and render it non- functional but this is really only a problem in older vehicles with tired engines that consume oil. So I try to bring the ZDDP content back up to at least the 1,200 PPM range or just a tad more. ZDDP is one of those additives that are beneficial but can be detrimental if overused so I try not to go overboard.

It is pretty clearly not necessary as there are a lot of motorcycles (which are all flat tappet designs as far as I know) using current motor oil but it makes me happy and it also makes the bike shift considerably smoother and with less effort.

Brian

Try that in usable quantities for us troglodytes.

[Restless]

I have used the T6 but it seemed to make the shifter a little notchy after 2000 or so miles.  I switched to the regular 15-40 Rotella and it seems to perform great and the best part is that I can do an oil change with a K&N filter for under $30.

+1, I broke mine in on the Kawi semi synthetic and then switched to Mobil 1 4T but it got real notchy in shifting at the 3500 mile mark so I just switched to Rotella 15W-40 at the 7700 mile mark and like the smooooooth results so far!  Plus the price is 70% less than the Mobil 1!!   

[B.D.F.]

Between 1 and 2 fluid ounces per oil change. The stuff is lousy with zinc so a little big goes a long way and again, it is best not to add too much.

Brian

Try that in usable quantities for us troglodytes.

[lt1]

Thx!

[ZedHed]

Yes, I use cam break- in lube in any oil I use in the bike. One of the changes in the latest mix of Rotella oils has been the reduction of zinc content. Flat tappet cam engines benefit from an additive made of zinc and phosphorus in a chemical form called ZDDP. Motor oils used to contain at least 1,000 PPM and some as much as 1,800 PPM but the US gov't has requested, and all motor oil suppliers as far as I know have complied, a new max. level of 800 PPM. The zinc in the additive <can> coat a catalytic converter and render it non- functional but this is really only a problem in older vehicles with tired engines that consume oil. So I try to bring the ZDDP content back up to at least the 1,200 PPM range or just a tad more. ZDDP is one of those additives that are beneficial but can be detrimental if overused so I try not to go overboard.

It is pretty clearly not necessary as there are a lot of motorcycles (which are all flat tappet designs as far as I know) using current motor oil but it makes me happy and it also makes the bike shift considerably smoother and with less effort.

Brian

OK Brian, a little engine education for you -- when "gearheads" talk about "flat-tappet" engines, they are referring to flat-tappet engines with pushrods, VERY strong valve springs, huge valves and very radical cam lift and profiles.  They are not talking about overhead cam, four-valve engines with very light, small valves, and much weaker valve springs (smaller, lighter valves -- weaker springs needed)  Those engines were big-block, muscle car engines not modern, high-rpm motorcycle engines.  Heavy valves and springs cause much higher wear on the cams and thus need the added protection of higher concentrations of ZDDF additives in their oil.

To eliminate valve float, either very strong valve springs are needed for large valves (2 valve engines) or small light valves that are more easily controlled at high rpm (4-valve engines), or a desmodromic valve train that doesn't have valve springs to allow valves to float.

The C14 with its lighter valve train does not need high concentrations of ZDDF or Kawasaki would have specified an oil with it. Normally you are a very logical and reasonable guy, but here you are taking things out of context.

[B.D.F.]

If you read my posts you will note a paragraph that says that adding ZDDP is obviously not necessary as there are not motorcycle engines spalling camshaft lobes all over the countryside.

As to whether or not a C-14 is a flat- tappet engine, given that the only two choices are flat- tappet and roller- tappet, I am confident that our engines do indeed have flat tappets. Please elaborate on any third choice to describe a C-14's valvetrain seeing as you "gearheads" don't think these engines have "flat- tappet" mechanisms.

Kawasaki cannot specify an oil with high concentrations of ZDDP because there are none available that are approved for street use.

And some people want to reduce reading compression classes in school....

Brian

OK Brian, a little engine education for you -- when "gearheads" talk about "flat-tappet" engines, they are referring to flat-tappet engines with pushrods, VERY strong valve springs, huge valves and very radical cam lift and profiles.  They are not talking about overhead cam, four-valve engines with very light, small valves, and much weaker valve springs (smaller, lighter valves -- weaker springs needed)  Those engines were big-block, muscle car engines not modern, high-rpm motorcycle engines.  Heavy valves and springs cause much higher wear on the cams and thus need the added protection of higher concentrations of ZDDF additives in their oil.

To eliminate valve float, either very strong valve springs are needed for large valves (2 valve engines) or small light valves that are more easily controlled at high rpm (4-valve engines), or a desmodromic valve train that doesn't have valve springs to allow valves to float.

The C14 with its lighter valve train does not need high concentrations of ZDDF or Kawasaki would have specified an oil with it. Normally you are a very logical and reasonable guy, but here you are taking things out of context.