no alcohol premium gas milage difference??

[Ghost Rider 2]

  I bought my 09 back in January and have been running 10% alcohol premium fuel in it.  That is what is available locally.  We recently had a new gas station open and they have alcohol free premium.  I have ran 6 tanks threw the bike.  I was expecting a little improvement in gas milage with the alky free.  Well I see absolutely no difference. Over the last 2,000 miles this bike is getting 40 to 41 mpg tank after tank.   4 tanks with alcohol 6 without. I have 2 friends that say I waste money on premium. One has a Connie the other a Road Glide.  They both burn regular with alcohol every tank.  Comments  please..

[martin_14]

 

[UhOh]

Yep, i buy yhr premium unalcoholed when it's covenient.
I believe the mpg benefit is there - BUT HAVE FOUND NO BENEFIT in fact.

Best to you in your search ...

[jwh20]

If you're going by the C14's MPG indicator that is just an estimate.  To calculate the actual MPG you must use the formula:

MPG = TOTAL MILES/TOTAL GALLONS

To get a better result, you need to use MORE miles and MORE gallons but be sure you always all your miles and your gallons and then divide.

You will get better MPG from 100% gasoline because there is more energy in 1 gallon of gasoline than there is in 1 gallon of E10 gasoline/ethanol mix.  Of course using E85 would show a more dramatic difference against E0 than E10 but it's still there.

The problem with the C14 (and ANY ECU-based fuel mileage indicator) is that the fuel quantity is only an estimate based on what the ECU thinks it's sending.  But it's not an exact measurement.

Also keep in mind that the E10 you buy may not actually contain 10% ethanol.  The specification for E10 is "10% MAXIMUM Ethanol" and so it may have less.  Sometimes you get E0, E5, or anything up to and including 10%.  Unless you have a portable lab kit, it's hard to tell...

As a point of reference, the energy content per gallon of:

1) Gasoline: 124,000 BTU/gallon  (100% of gasoline)
2) Ethanol:    76,330 BTU/gallon  ( 61% of gasoline)
3) E10:        112,000 BTU/gallon  ( 90% of gasoline)

So in theory you should see only 90% of the MPG when using E10 vs. E0.  But you'd have to be sure you're comparing E0 to E10 and also be sure you are replicating the driving conditions EXACTLY.  Both, of course, are quite difficult to do outside of a lab.

By the way, I try to use E0 in my motorcycle and especially in all my outdoor power equipment.  Especially during winter months these tend to sit and E0 sits a LOT better than E10.  Ethanol in gasoline SUCKS and always makes a mess!

[clogan]

 

I have found that my indicated mpg is usually optimistic when compared to the actual, hand-computed mpg. This is true for my C14, as well as for my Focus, my Corvette, and the wife's F-150. Furthermore, I find that the actual, hand-computed mpg is a bit better when burning 100% gasoline as compared to E10. Not proven is my suspicion that the lesser energy content per unit of E10 somehow skews the on-board computation of mpg into an over-stated number.

[VirginiaJim]

Funny about finding non-alcoholic gasolines.  Not many around where I live (I think that there is one on 3 in Westmoreland county), but in southwest va, they're all over the place.  Another difference is using credit.  Most every station there charges more for credit and discounts for cash..  (Gate City, VA).

BTW, I use premium all the time.  I might get away with 89 but I sure as heck aren't going to use 87 in my bike unless it's an emergency.  The compression can vary in this bike. If you are a continual thrasher then stay with premium.  If not, then maybe 89 but it's not worth the price differential to me to experiment against the Kwacker specs.

If you want to run 87, then buy a C10.  It thrives on that.  Bigger tank as well.

[bombsquad1201]

I agree with jwh20.
I try to use ethanol free fuel in my C14, I am lucky that I have found a station that doesn't advertise the fact that it's premium fuel is ethanol free or 2% or less ethanol.
I average 44 to 46 miles to a gallon using the  MPG = TOTAL MILES/TOTAL GALLONS, method.
On extented trips (2000 miles), I have reached 50 miles to a gallon.
VirginiaJim is right premium only in my bike.

[C14_Rider]

As a point of reference, the energy content per gallon of:

1) Gasoline: 124,000 BTU/gallon  (100% of gasoline)
2) Ethanol:    76,330 BTU/gallon  ( 61% of gasoline)
3) E10:        112,000 BTU/gallon  ( 90% of gasoline)

So in theory you should see only 90% of the MPG when using E10 vs. E0.

I'm sure numbers vary from different sources.  The National Institute of Standards and Technology shows pure ethanol to have almost exactly 0.67 the energy content of pure gasoline.  Thus energy in E10 = 0.9 + (0.1 * 0.67) = .967, or 96.7 %.   Your number of 90% above would only be the case for E10 if there was absolutely zero energy in the ethanol...

[Scaffolder]

I run 93 octane and get better fuel economy than 91 octane. Others are available on my trips. 87, 91,93, and 94 are all the octanes I find. None are alcohol free unfortunately.

[jwh20]

I'm sure numbers vary from different sources.  The National Institute of Standards and Technology shows pure ethanol to have almost exactly 0.67 the energy content of pure gasoline.  Thus energy in E10 = 0.9 + (0.1 * 0.67) = .967, or 96.7 %.   Your number of 90% above would only be the case for E10 if there was absolutely zero energy in the ethanol...

I came up with 90% quite simply by taking 112,000/124,000 = 0.90.  But you are correct, there are different values for the BTU content of these various fuels.  I have seen that there is considerable discrepancy for the BTU content of E10 depending on the source you use.

[freebird6]

Map for those seeking www.pure-gas.org

[VirginiaJim]

I might try some of those out.  Thanks for the link.

[Marco1018]

You're not going to see much of a difference mileage wise between straight gas and e10.  Our engine management does not use an o2 sensor (you pc5 auto tune guys don't count).  So the computer always sprays the same amount of fuel based on a precalibrated fuel map.  Your car will notice a difference because it has o2 sensors that monitor exhaust oxygen levels and adjusts fuel tables to fit.

[Ghost Rider 2]

You're not going to see much of a difference mileage wise between straight gas and e10.  Our engine management does not use an o2 sensor (you pc5 auto tune guys don't count).  So the computer always sprays the same amount of fuel based on a precalibrated fuel map.  Your car will notice a difference because it has o2 sensors that monitor exhaust oxygen levels and adjusts fuel tables to fit.

  This make more since to me than anything I have came up with.

[C14_Rider]

…I can’t believe nobody has used “YMMV” so far in this thread..!

The above analysis about not having an O2 sensor is surely correct for any given exact throttle position.  To go further, however, any vehicle requires a specific level of power to execute a specific duty cycle regardless of the level of chemical energy in the fuel.  So if you are going at a constant 60 mph on an exactly level highway, all the many factors affecting power required being constant, X amount of power will be required.  Using gasoline, a specific throttle position will deliver the exact amount of fuel to generate that power.  But if the fuel contains 3% less power per unit volume, then the throttle will have to be advanced ever so slightly to inject 3% more fuel to make up the difference.  So in theory, regardless of the type of fuel delivery system, even carburetors, the fuel volume used will be greater.

That said, the difference of 3 – 4% energy between gasoline and E10 is hard to observe IMO, given that the many other variables that affect fuel mileage are in total much larger than the slight fuel difference.  So although it clearly is a small negative influence on mileage, I think it is rather hard to observe it, despite energetic anecdotal evidence to the contrary…

[angelo]

…I can’t believe nobody has used “YMMV” so far in this thread..!

Any discussion of mileage should be with miles divided by gallons.  However, since the on board computer has been brought up, I just took a rather long trip on mine and while often optimistic, on several tanks, the onboard was pessimistic!  Don't think it was ever 2 mpg or more off though, so a pretty good gauge. 

Bought all sorts of gas / pure / altitude variants / mid or high octanes and found the biggest effect on my mpg was flat out speed in a straight line against the wind.  Even when really riding "hard" in canyons the mpg did not suffer as much as a straight line blast on the slab at 85mph into a wind for 190 miles. 

BTW '08.  4 K mile trip.  Most tanks in the 39's.  Second most would be 40.  A few odd balls (like a 42 and two 36's.  Not sure what happened there).

[deuce72]

I'm new but here is my opinion, non-technical version: I buy the Non-oxy for performance not MPGs. When I ran the 92 Non-oxy I noticed better throttle response. I'm not sure what the cut off is for "small" engines. I use it in my mowers, snow-blowers, and was using it in my 82 Honda Gl500 Interstate which was a 500cc twin. It loved it! I now own a 98 Connie and only recently started riding it, so I will compare.

deuce

[Ghost Rider 2]

Well the station I was buying the no alcohol gas got greedy. I stopped a couple weeks ago and the premium was 70 cents higher per gallon than regular. Said something to station manager he said something that he had no idea why. Sent email to corporation, got back email that says they only making 4 cents per gallon.  BS the regular was 70 cents less. I saw on Gas Buddy yesterday morning that the premium was 2,67 and regular was 2.39.  I thought well the fixed things.  I loaded up 6 fuel jugs last night and off I went to that station.  Well I think they have someone trying to drum up business for them.  Actual price was $3.19 that is 90 cents more per gallon than the regular.  PRICE GOUGEING!!!!
All I can say is HyVee stores in my opinion are nothing but a total rip off.

[maxtog]

Actual price was $3.19 that is 90 cents more per gallon than the regular.  PRICE GOUGEING!!!!

This is why I buy gas at Costco.  There is nothing "premium" about high-octane gas, and it doesn't cost much more to produce anymore.  The proof is that Costco sells it for a much lower jump than most places which are absolutely gouging people.  And there really is very little difference between brands of gas- it really doesn't matter all that much.  There are some variations in the quality of the way it is stored (contaminates), and detergents.