Author Topic: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change  (Read 1720 times)

Offline timsatx

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August 30, 2013

The Obama administration’s proposed regulatory amendment regarding background checks for principal officers of gun trusts will still require a chief law enforcement officer sign-off, and the rule change itself was initiated by a petition from a group representing National Firearms Act gun collectors. That information comes from a draft Department of Justice notice made public this morning by firearms industry consulting attorney Joshua Prince.

Gun Rights Examiner reported on the proposed regulation change last Friday, relying on the government’s summary as posted on the Executive Office of the President’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs website, which stated:

   
Quote
The proposed regulations would (1) add a definition for the term "responsible person"; (2) require each responsible person of a corporation, trust or legal entity to complete a specified form, and to submit photographs and fingerprints; (3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO.

While this column expressed concerns for the new requirements, commentators weighed in emphasizing the benefits of doing away with the CLEO signature requirement, as the current state of affairs allows a police chief or sheriff to ignore the application, thus halting the firearms transfer. The change was thus represented by some as a tradeoff worth making.

“Unfortunately, we just obtained a copy of the 62-page proposal and the above statement is a false depiction of the actual proposal, as everyone was made to believe that the CLEO signature requirement would be eliminated in exchange for additional regulations on fictitious entities,” Prince explained. “ATF will NOT be eliminating the CLEO requirement and instead IMPOSING it on ALL entities.”

A review of the DOJ draft Notice of Proposed Rulemaking bears that out.

“ATF does not propose to eliminate the CLEO certificate requirement at this time,” the proposal confirms. “Rather, ATF proposes extending the CLEO certificate requirement to responsible persons of a legal entity.”

What they’re evidently proposing to eliminate, for liability reasons, is having the CLEO certify “that he has no information that the applicant or transferee will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes.”

The rule change itself, the draft continues, was instigated by a petition from the National Firearms Act Trade and Collectors Association.

“The NFATCA expressed concern that persons who are prohibited by law from possessing or receiving firearms may acquire NFA firearms through the establishment of legal entities such as a corporation, trust, or partnership,” the notice explains. “The Petitioner [NFATCA] expressed concern that an NFA firearm could be obtained by a prohibited person and used in a violent crime.

"Therefore, for applications for a corporation, trust, partnership, or other legal entity to make or receive an NFA firearms, petitioner has requested amendments … to require photographs and fingerprint cards for persons who are responsible for directing the management and policies of the entity, so that a background check of the individual may be conducted,” the notice elaborates.

In other words, the leadership of a national influential collectors group petitioned ATF and endorsed more “gun control,” apparently under the assumption that there would be a tradeoff benefit to them in terms of eliminating a certification some CLEOs have been reluctant to provide.

As for their concern that violent criminals are going to be using trusts and lawyers to skirt the law, ATF noted “the number of Forms … involving legal entities that are not Federal firearms licensees increased … to 40,700 in 2012.” Despite this, the only corroborating example ATF cited was where an applicant denied transfer of a silencer “subsequently applied to transfer the same silencer to a trust,” that was discovered and the application was denied. Further information about the specifics of the example and the likely danger this posed in terms of increasing violent crime risks were not provided.

"No criminal would subject themselves to notifying the ATF of their intent to purchase a machine gun, wait six - 12 months to be able to receive the firearm, pay a $200 tax, and pay an extra $10,000 - $20,000 to purchase a legal machine gun when illegal machine guns can be purchased or made easily without waiting or notifying the ATF," Gun Trust Lawyer David M. Goldman wrote yesterday in a deconstruction of a so-called fact sheet from the White House. "This logic is flawed."

What’s apparent from these new revelations is that additional public scrutiny is required, including scrutiny of backroom deals being arranged without fanfare by special interest groups who petition for changes to regulations that will reach beyond their membership of collectors and investors. What is unknown at this time is what changes the White House will insist on before a final draft is presented for public comment. That period has not yet begun, but when it does, as today’s revelations should make clear, it will be in the interests of all gun owners to become informed and engaged.

As such, Prince and colleague Tom Odom have taken point and posted several updates just this morning, including Procedural issues with ATF’s draft proposal, National Firearms Act Day of Reckoning – September 3, 2013, and a summary of ATF’s draft proposal. Bookmarking and regularly visiting that blog will help ensure concerned citizens can keep up to date on the information being uncovered there.

http://www.examiner.com/article/nfa-firearms-collectors-group-initiated-atf-gun-trust-rule-change

Offline GPz1100

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 09:26:54 PM »
D@mn. i hate this for everyone that has trouble with their cleo

Offline timsatx

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 06:40:31 AM »
I am surprised that nobody else has any comments about this. To the NFA Gun Collectors who requested this change, be careful what you wish for, you may not like what you get.

Son of Pappy

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 10:14:29 AM »
I'd comment on the progressive move but that would get this sent to the Arena.  I mean, it makes perfect sense, remove weapons from law abiding folks, that way the progressive cronies will be free to do as they wish.  If all these checks work so well why do we still have criminals with guns?  Answer?  Weak kneed politicians and soft judges unwilling to hold criminals truly accoutable and an ever softening population demanding the the nanny state "protect" them >:(

See ya on the dark side ;D

Offline Strawboss

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 10:19:45 AM »
Lots of comments, but why, what's it going to accomplish except and online bitch session? Other than voting pro-gun, sending a letter to ones representative and maybe writing a letter to a paper, what are you really going to do? Sure, I don't like it, sure I try to do the above, I keep vigilant, but that's about it. I can't read every paper and be online all day and watch every newscast and comment about every gun issue or law. I don't want to do that. I'm not a political junkie and I don't care to read about politics, there's a section here for that, I get enough of it at work I don't need to willingly read or hear about it. Sorry, not intending to be flippant or sarcastic but you asked and I told.
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Offline timsatx

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 10:33:15 AM »
Your right, of course. I don't why I bring it up. In fact, I don't know why there are any articles written about guns and gun laws or why there are any forums that discuss these things. It is just stupid.

Offline Strawboss

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Re: NFA firearms collectors group initiated ATF gun trust rule change
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 11:12:46 AM »
I'd be willing to bet based on the majority of gun owners here who post things that most all belong to the NRA, get one of their magazines, probably get another one or two magazines pertaining to guns, read firearm related stories in those magazines, of which it seems that I'd be willing to bet you cut and paste from the web sites of those magazines. So, with that said, I'd say that a majority of the folks here have already seen what you post based solely on my personal experience that many, not all, but many nowdays considering the current climate of gun ownership casually at least read a few articles pertaining to guns, and if they watch maybe just a little TV, see or hear about a few things too. Its not that they or I don't want to comment or don't care, I am just sick of politics and hearing about them and reading about things after the fact then seeing them in a magazine 3 months later and then seeing it posted online after that. I don't really care to read or comment about it. As I said, sorry if this isn't what you'd like to hear, but as I said, I vote, I send, I read, I care, but I am thoroughly finished with "GLOOM AND DOOM". My opinions only. Again, you asked and I'm sitting here waiting for my PC to finish scanning and figured I'd give you a comment.
COG 5852-AMA Life 302525-NRA 9098599-SASS
2001 Concours-1982 KZ550A-1979 Triumph Bonneville-1995 Honda SA50