Linked brakes - why only the RF caliper??

[C1xRider]

The linked brakes on the 2010+ are designed to only apply front pressure (when pressing the rear brake pedal) to the right front caliper.  So why not both calipers?

It's a bit annoying that one rotor and pad set wears out faster than the other.  Why not split the load, and let both sides wear out evenly?  My RF rotor is 0.5mm thinner than my LF rotor.  To put that in perspective, the service limit is only 0.5mm from new.

I looked through the FSM, but didn't see an explanation why Kawasaki chose this setup.  They must have had a good reason, because they had to redesign the ABS module to add the extra port (second front port), add an additional steel brake line from the control unit to the front  of the bike, and an additional rubber line down to the caliper.

The only reason I could think of was the hydraulic biasing equations didn't work with the extra volume of the second caliper.  Doesn't seem like it should matter, since they designed new parts just for this system, they should have been able to make that work, but I don't have any other ideas.

So, any brake system designers or engineers out there with a good explanation?

BTW, this is NOT a bash the linked brakes thread, so please post those in another thread (Jim, feel free to nuke any of those!).

[maxtog]

The linked system is designed to weakly link the two.  So there is no need for the power of both calipers.  Linking only one is all that is necessary for their goal and it is much cheaper and lighter to do one that both.

So I believe the first answer you seek is "cost/less complicated".

I also suspect that most people rarely use the rear pedal, if at all, and if they do, it is very very briefly or for mostly slow maneuvers which use little force.  So they will never show or notice increased wear on the one side of the front.

So I believe the second answer you seek is "isn't used much/doesn't wear much".

[VirginiaJim]

I also suspect that most people rarely use the rear pedal, if at all, and if they do, it is very very briefly or for mostly slow maneuvers which use little force.  So they will never show or notice increased wear on the one side of the front.

You be suspecting wrongly in my case, methinks.  I use the rear brake all the time.  Course I ain't most people as my wife generally specifically describes me.

[Conrad]

You be suspecting wrongly in my case, methinks.  I use the rear brake all the time.  Course I ain't most people as my wife generally specifically describes me.

+1 I never use the front brake only, muscle memory won't allow it.

And that's a GOOD thing Jim!

[VirginiaJim]

  straight.  You know my motto, we paid for the rear brake, by golly we're going to use it!

[Scaffolder]

It should be linked to both calipers.
My 2008 stock pads went 35,000 miles.
My 2010 stock pads went 20,000 miles. Because of one side. Go figure.

[PH14]

It shouldn't be linked to both calipers, they should not be linked at all.

There, I fixed it for you. I have the 2009 and use both front and back brakes. The front brakes however get the majority of the pressure when stopping since I know they provide the most braking and the rear brakes are more apt to lock. IN a panic situation, those who rely heavily on the rear brake are more apt to lock up the rear wheel and slide, then release the brake and high side.

Both brakes are there to use. You have the most braking power when you apply both front and back, but you need to practice. I hate linked brakes on any bike with the word "sport" as part of its description, it defies logic.

[Conrad]

There, I fixed it for you. I have the 2009 and use both front and back brakes. The front brakes however get the majority of the pressure when stopping since I know they provide the most braking and the rear brakes are more apt to lock. IN a panic situation, those without ABS who rely heavily on the rear brake are more apt to lock up the rear wheel and slide, then release the brake and high side.

Both brakes are there to use. You have the most braking power when you apply both front and back, but you need to practice. I hate linked brakes on any bike with the word "sport" as part of its description, it defies logic.

And I fixed it for you too.   

[stevewfl]

I've spent a lot of money on track bike brakes to make them work as good as one caliper out of 3 on my C14, these brakes rock 

[maxtog]

You be suspecting wrongly in my case, methinks.

Yes, but I was talking "in general", not just VirginiaJim and Maxtog

[C1xRider]

The linked system is designed to weakly link the two.  So there is no need for the power of both calipers.  Linking only one is all that is necessary for their goal and it is much cheaper and lighter to do one that both.

So I believe the first answer you seek is "cost/less complicated".

I also suspect that most people rarely use the rear pedal, if at all, and if they do, it is very very briefly or for mostly slow maneuvers which use little force.  So they will never show or notice increased wear on the one side of the front.

So I believe the second answer you seek is "isn't used much/doesn't wear much".

Max, I'm puzzled by your comment that linking only one caliper was much cheaper.  As I outlined in the opening post, it had to cost them more money to isolate the right caliper.  If you look at the 08/09 ABS models, there is a single line coming from the control unit to one caliper, then a cross over hose to connect to the second caliper.

It would have been less cost to simply continue using what was already in production.  The only thing they saved was the cross over hose, the longer banjo bolt, and the 2 plastic clips to hold the hose to the fender.  What was added was a second steel line with mounting hardware (brackets and bolts), the second flexible hose down to the caliper, all the documentation and training at the factory on how to assemble the "new" system, updating all the service manual information, and training for the dealer mechanics on something new / different (assuming they do any training, which may actually be none).

Can you explain what you meant, because I'm not seeing it.

As for most people not using the back brake, I think that only applies to full sport bike riders.  Perhaps Kawi still thinks that  is the target demographic for the C14?  Personally, I use front and rear, as I was trained to do sooooo many years ago.

You could be onto something though, that they didn't want application of the rear brakes to cause too much front braking (like during slow speed maneuvers), but in other conditions, there wasn't enough front brakes, so to make it work, they had to use just one caliper?  Just a WAG...

[maxtog]

Max, I'm puzzled by your comment that linking only one caliper was much cheaper.  [...]

Hmm.  Interesting.
Could also be a safety thing?

[RideBellChain]

You be suspecting wrongly in my case, methinks.  I use the rear brake all the time.  Course I ain't most people as my wife generally specifically describes me.

+1...use it all the time, although if I have a passenger, I go to mode 2, and just use the fronts for a smoother ride for THEM.

If you use the rear only at slow speed, you can actually feel it let go of the front caliper at about 20mph when slowing down.

I have another bike, so maybe I use the rear more because the other bike doesn't have ABS/Linked and it stops so much better with both applied...I don't want to get out of habit for safety reasons, so I use the rear all the time on both.

[PH14]

And I fixed it for you too.   

 

[TallyRex]

If you apply the front brake first and then the rear, all calipers will be activated and you will not have uneven wear on the rotor.  No?


As far as locking the rear, doesn't the ABS take care of that?

[Conrad]

Yes, but I was talking "in general", not just VirginiaJim, Conrad, and Maxtog

FIFY

[Scaffolder]

There, I fixed it for you. I have the 2009 and use both front and back brakes. The front brakes however get the majority of the pressure when stopping since I know they provide the most braking and the rear brakes are more apt to lock. IN a panic situation, those who rely heavily on the rear brake are more apt to lock up the rear wheel and slide, then release the brake and high side.

Both brakes are there to use. You have the most braking power when you apply both front and back, but you need to practice. I hate linked brakes on any bike with the word "sport" as part of its description, it defies logic.

non-linked brakes would be wonderful!!!!

[chap]

If you apply the front brake first and then the rear, all calipers will be activated and you will not have uneven wear on the rotor.  No?


As far as locking the rear, doesn't the ABS take care of that?

That's what I do. Measured the front brakes this spring. Identical wear on both fronts. Only 13,000 km on the bike though. (2010 ABS)