Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Awaz on July 05, 2012, 10:23:13 AM
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Just curious how many of you guys like or hate apple. I for one do not use any. My personal opinions are:
Pros:
1. Sleek looking products. Beautiful and nicely done.
2. OS is pretty good. Unix certified. Runs pretty darn good on the hardware they put on.
3. Makes some nice monitors. I will buy those if I can sell an organ.
Cons:
1. Hardware performance not in par with other PC manufactures and yet cost an arm and leg.
2. You cannot change jack crap. No RAM increase. NO GPU changes. Nada.
3. Wall gardened. My biggest grip. You cannot buy music, software, etc. from anywhere else.
4. Some of the worst EULAs you agree upon.
5. Worst patent troll of the bunch.
6. The graphic edge that people think does not apply anymore.
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Just curious how many of you guys like or hate apple. I for one do not use any. My personal opinions are:
Pros:
1. Sleek looking products. Beautiful and nicely done.
2. OS is pretty good. Unix certified. Runs pretty darn good on the hardware they put on.
3. Makes some nice monitors. I will buy those if I can sell an organ.
Cons:
1. Hardware performance not in par with other PC manufactures and yet cost an arm and leg.
2. You cannot change jack crap. No RAM increase. NO GPU changes. Nada.
3. Wall gardened. My biggest grip. You cannot buy music, software, etc. from anywhere else.
4. Some of the worst EULAs you agree upon.
5. Worst patent troll of the bunch.
6. The graphic edge that people think does not apply anymore.
I think you pretty much summed it up nicely! It's the above Con's that make me loathe Apple...
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Since when can't you add RAM to a Mac?
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To each his own I guess. After being a "PC" for 25 years, going through almost every step of CPU family (starting with 8088xt) and building most of my own from scratch, I made the switch to Apple four years ago and couldn't be happier. Yes, they do cost more initially, but that is about the only con on my list.
What I found that moved me to switch:
-On equal hardware, better performance. Windows even ran better on Mac hardware under Bootcamp than it did on a PC of equal CPU, memory, graphics.
-The "controlled" OS meant far less conflicts, reinstallation of drivers, troubleshooting "lost" peripherals, restarts to resolve issues and such. No more having to regularly resolve problems, it just works. It also means that performance stays constant. No more gradually slowing down as you install more programs, files, etc. until you have to refresh the system by reformatting your HD and reinstalling everything.
-For me, LESS money in the long run. With PCs I upgraded to a new computer every 18-24 months as well as the new OS versions. With PCs, regardless of brand they have a 4-6 month product cycle (time between release and discontinue for newer model) Macs go on average 12-14 months before a model is discontinued, and with a higher build quality they retain a lot more in resale value. Figuring in what I've been able to sell my used Macs for (65% or more of what I paid) compared to a used PC (25-35% of purchase if lucky) usually more than makes up the initial higher cost.
-Ease of upgrade, never had as simple and smooth of a process in moving to a new computer than since I went Mac. No need to reinstall anything, simple restore from Time Capsule and re-enter installation keys for some software.
-Another thing that helps with the cost issue is OS upgrades. Major version changes in Windows runs $99 to $200 dollars EACH computer depending on what version you get (Home, Premium, Business, etc.). The Mac has a single version with all features, I paid just $29 when I upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion and that $29 let me install on up to 5 computers. Between me, the wife, and my remaining child at home, we have 4 computers. $129 x 4 = $516 vs. $29 to have the current OS on all computers.
-Speaking of multiple computers, home network and sharing is far easier to set up and manage in the Mac environment.
To be fair, your list of "cons" has a couple of erroneous claims...
My experience is that Mac hardware performance far exceeds PC level, unless you go very high end PC components and then the cost difference shrinks considerably. My first Mac, a used Mac Mini had the same CPU and GPU as my then 1 year old Gateway PC and when I did head to head benchmarks, the Mac beat the PC across the board. The Mac even reported a high "Windows Experience" score in windows. Admittedly it wasn't a huge difference, in most things it was in the 5-7% range better, but it was better across the board none the less.
As to cost these were almost equal in performance and specs so are a good comparison. The used Mac Mini (Apple's basic, low end model), 9 months into the product cycle cost me $400 (66% of new price of $600). That was $300 less than what I paid for the Gateway new ($700), which at the time was one of the higher end models. When I sold the Gateway a few weeks later, the best I could get for it with a clean software reinstall and in out of the box condition was $250 (36% of purchase price) for a computer that was 13 months old. I kept the Mini for six months and sold it for $300, or 50% of the new price for a computer almost 18 months old.
Every current Mac is capable of getting RAM upgraded and can be done by anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver. I upgraded the RAM in my old iMac, my old MacBook Pro, my current MacBook Pro, my current MacBook Air, and current Mac Mini. The only thing that you cant upgrade RAM on is the iPad.
With the speed that tech evolves, I don't see the inability to upgrade CPU/GPU as an issue. Why put better faster CPU/GPU in a machine that doesn't have the faster bus, chipsets, IO standards, etc to benefit from the new power? Makes as much sense as driving a Ferrari on the freeway in rush hour, sure you have great performance on paper, but real word it is no better than a Yugo.
You certainly can buy software, music, etc. from other sources. Most of my music is purchased from Amazon and I have had no issues. I have Adobe software, MS Office, and $5 "Popcap" arcade game software. I also have freeware software that far exceeds any freeware programs I ever saw for Windows OS.
Not sure what is so different in the EULA between Apple and MS, as I can't really say I have completely read either. I imagine they are all about the same legal gobbely gook just authored by different lawyers. Unlike the South Park episode, no Apple representative has showed up on my doorstep demanding I comply with strange EULA clauses.
As to patent enforcement, I got no problem with people aggressively defending what is theirs, even when it is intellectual material. At the end of the day a judge decides so complain if you think the judge is wrong. Contrary to popular belief, just cause it is on the internet it isn't free.
The graphic certainly is still there, but only because the high end production software that has become industry standard stuff is Mac centric. Not to say it couldn't be done on PC, but they don't have PC version of what has become a software standard. From a home user standpoint, either platform will do what folks need for pictures and home video.
Bottom line, it comes down to individual users and what they are looking for and what they do. For some Mac is the better way to go, others will do fine with a PC. Having experience on both sides I don't understand the mentality of one needs to be declared superior to the other. If you an only afford a PC it is obviously the better choice over not having a computer. If you can afford a Mac but are only going to surf the Internet, you might put the money to better use.
Regardless of all that, I just hate to see folks toss out misconceptions and falsehoods to support one side or the other or even outright lie or misrepresent facts to others.
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And the Mac IS a PC.
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(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww207/OutbackJon/Internet%20Stuff/129115793545040623.jpg)
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I have been a PC user for years also . I am slowly changing to Apple why ?
I have been impressed with my my Iphones compared to previous phones that fail within about 12-18 months .
MY son has had an apple macbook for 18 months for school I have used it a bit and it is better when you are used to it.
My laptop bought about 15 months ago is good running window 7 pro but is only better in regards screen size and price. It is worse in starting up time ,mouse moving so you are typing and find you letters are going in somewhere else ( happen three times in this reply so far ),internet dropping out whereas the apple stays connected ( same room same time ), battery life is about 1/3 of the apple.
Are Apple perfect definatly not BUT they are miles ahead of PC window based sytems.
Would I buy another PC probably not would I buy another apple product YES .
You find a lot of people who like their Iphone do change ,this is becoming obviuos and buisness are now changing over .
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I love Intel and hate I tunes.
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Definitely to each his own. And if you bought your product based on your needs, than this is fine with me. I may have mixed various products when I was putting down the pros and cons, which probably was not the right way. When I was speaking of RAM, I was more referring to the MAC books. I did not think you could do that on MAC books - perhaps I need to look into that.
I did a comparison on two laptop specifications - an ASUS windows based laptop and a MAC book pro. You can google those as well. You will see that the ASUS laptop has better hardware than the MAC book pro and cost less.
I have a hard time believing that Windows run better on MAC hardware. Obviously you are talking about the intel chip MACs. If you have some benchmark links, it will be interesting to see.
I have no idea why you are upgrading PC in 4 - 6 months! If you are an enthusiast, you will be sticking to PC. I built my PC last Feb and it is running just fine and I do not plan to upgrade for at least one more year. And my PC never shuts down unless it is required after an update.
I do not have idea about upgrading MACs, but I will take your word for it that it is cheap. As for Windows upgrade, you do know there are family packs out there. I bought 3 licenses of Windows 7 for $124 when I upgraded from XP to Win 7.
As to cost these were almost equal in performance and specs so are a good comparison. The used Mac Mini (Apple's basic, low end model), 9 months into the product cycle cost me $400 (66% of new price of $600). That was $300 less than what I paid for the Gateway new ($700), which at the time was one of the higher end models. When I sold the Gateway a few weeks later, the best I could get for it with a clean software reinstall and in out of the box condition was $250 (36% of purchase price) for a computer that was 13 months old. I kept the Mini for six months and sold it for $300, or 50% of the new price for a computer almost 18 months old.
First off, what you are referring here is akin to Harley Davidson versus our very own C14. Which do you think has better resale value? And would that by any means attribute it to be technologically superior? Its the cool-aid factor. This is not even considering the factor, IMO, that Gateway is not the greatest brand out there. There are far better brands.
With the speed that tech evolves, I don't see the inability to upgrade CPU/GPU as an issue. Why put better faster CPU/GPU in a machine that doesn't have the faster bus, chipsets, IO standards, etc to benefit from the new power? Makes as much sense as driving a Ferrari on the freeway in rush hour, sure you have great performance on paper, but real word it is no better than a Yugo.
I do agree with the aspect that you gotta know what you are doing. No sense throwing a GTX 680 on a off the shelf $700 desktop. You will be wasting money. But two things stick out to me here is that, first, Apple's hardware specs does not match their price - see my laptop comparison comment above. But let me give you another example. I had this 7 year old Compaq that I was using for mundane tasks. My nephew wanted to play WoW on it. The GPU on it just will not play WoW. I was able to get a $30 AGP card and stuck in there and it played WoW at good 30 - 35fps at medium setting. So, yes, it is a good thing to be able to upgrade.
You certainly can buy software, music, etc. from other sources. Most of my music is purchased from Amazon and I have had no issues. I have Adobe software, MS Office, and $5 "Popcap" arcade game software. I also have freeware software that far exceeds any freeware programs I ever saw for Windows OS.
This I did not know - but it is good to know. I was lead to believe that you can only purchase from iTues. So do you have to transfer it to MP4 (or whatever their audio protocol is) before you play? Or can it play MP3?
The graphic certainly is still there, but only because the high end production software that has become industry standard stuff is Mac centric. Not to say it couldn't be done on PC, but they don't have PC version of what has become a software standard. From a home user standpoint, either platform will do what folks need for pictures and home video.
I think this is a toss up. I do not think MAC is the standard on high end production software. Why would any high end shop stick to a pre-built spec when they can get their own spec setup? Also, you know the gaming industry is not using any MACs.
As for Patent information, you should do a google on all the patent suit they filed. Look up the suit they filed against HTC. Look up the patent they filed on embeded links. They are so frivolous!! Here is an example: http://gizmodo.com/5923087/apple-fails-to-ban-htc-imports (http://gizmodo.com/5923087/apple-fails-to-ban-htc-imports) and another interesting article here http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/05/us-apple-google-judge-idUSBRE8640IQ20120705 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/05/us-apple-google-judge-idUSBRE8640IQ20120705)
I am not saying other industries do it, but Apple seemed to have taken it to new heights.
The EULAs that caught my attention are:
http://gizmodo.com/5877736/sell-youre-book-in-the-ibookstore-and-apple-wont-let-you-sell-it-anywhere-else (http://gizmodo.com/5877736/sell-youre-book-in-the-ibookstore-and-apple-wont-let-you-sell-it-anywhere-else)
Perhaps this one gives a bit better perspective
http://betanews.com/2012/01/22/apples-ibooks-author-eula-is-more-and-less-evil-than-you-think/ (http://betanews.com/2012/01/22/apples-ibooks-author-eula-is-more-and-less-evil-than-you-think/)
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I went to MacMall's website and looked at the specs. They can be upgraded with more RAM andthe desktops are made for ez access to upgrade and expand.
Years ago PC Magazine ran a test with Windoze on a Mac. They had to admit in benchmark tests the Mac ran it faster...and tis was on the OLD chipsets.
Remember the old "Intelinside" ads from about 5 or so years ago? They were done on Macs.
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Hate them because I can't afford them.
I bought my first Apple product for my wife, an Ipod. She wanted to purchase some apps and music so I told her to use the AMEX card because it has the best loss protection. Apple account get jacked at Apple so AMEX calls us to make sure that purchases are good, we tell them no and AMEX shuts the card down. AMEX pays for the first jack but not the next three that occurred at Apple after the card was shut down. Apple tells us tough titties... We have to pay for the jacks that AMEX won't or she can't buy any more apps or music. F*$K Apple.
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I used to HATE APPLE till I bought one. Now every time I "have" to boot up and use a screaming win7 machine it SUX
Hehe call me a reformed Mac hater, the products work so much better its scary. Hardware, software, and even the monitors blow winders away!
I used to call Apple "MackInTrash"
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And the Mac IS a PC.
So load a non-Apple OS on it as the only OS.
My hardware, I should be able to run any OS I choose.
Or conversely, if I buy an Apple OS I should be able to install it on any hardware I choose as long as I do not exceed the number of licenses.
Only that's not the way it works.
If you're talking performance, I can build a linux box for the same price as an Apple that will stomp the Apple into Applesauce.
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If we limit to PC's, Apple is a snob choice: they are not powerful like a Intel/AMD CPU and only have "easy of use" functions.... for dummies! ;)
Regarding the phones, they gave a good thrust to make the cellphones become a commodity giving easy acces to smart functions.
I credit Apple for this, but now Android is as "smart" as they are, if not smarter... ;9
To make a comparison with bikes, it's like explaining the commercial success of BMW: not better bikes but people think they are!
Perception is what counts...
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The Mac IS a PC.
The Mac WILL run Windows and boot from Windoze.
BTW if you didn't notice a few years ago Intel began making their processors.
And I will again repeat-the Mac IS a PC.
There are a few OSes that will run on the Mac.
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The Mac IS a PC.
The Mac WILL run Windows and boot from Windoze.
BTW if you didn't notice a few years ago Intel began making their processors.
And I will again repeat-the Mac IS a PC.
There are a few OSes that will run on the Mac.
Nope. Not as a single boot.
Try this--put new blank hard drive into a mac.
Then insert Windoze or Linux distro disc of your choice.
See if it boots.
Protip: It won't.
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From what I have heard it can be done. Doesn't mean the Mac isn't a PC.
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I have a hard time believing that Windows run better on MAC hardware. Obviously you are talking about the intel chip MACs. If you have some benchmark links, it will be interesting to see.
I have no idea why you are upgrading PC in 4 - 6 months! If you are an enthusiast, you will be sticking to PC. I built my PC last Feb and it is running just fine and I do not plan to upgrade for at least one more year. And my PC never shuts down unless it is required after an update.
I do not have idea about upgrading MACs, but I will take your word for it that it is cheap. As for Windows upgrade, you do know there are family packs out there. I bought 3 licenses of Windows 7 for $124 when I upgraded from XP to Win 7.
First off, what you are referring here is akin to Harley Davidson versus our very own C14. Which do you think has better resale value? And would that by any means attribute it to be technologically superior? Its the cool-aid factor. This is not even considering the factor, IMO, that Gateway is not the greatest brand out there. There are far better brands.
Yes, Intel chip Macs. I did my own simple test on my computers using a free benchmark program and the built in "Windows Experience" score.
I don't upgrade in 4-6 months, what I was talking about is the product cycle. The Asus laptop you spec'd isn't likely to be on the market in 4-6 months. It will be a discontinued model and a new model with some minor change will have taken its place.
There are different "enthusiasts", not all stick to Windows machines. It depends on what they do and what they are enthused about. I will agree that if you are a hardcore gamer, Windows is the better platform. Games aren't my thing, so that didnt have anything to do with my choice.
Sometimes they have the "family" pack OS upgrade for three licenses. When they do, it is for a brief introductory time, it still costs 4 times what the Mac OS does, is two licenses less, and is not the "full" OS (Home premium vs. Professional vs Ultimate).
As to resale value, I did not say it had anything to do with performance. My point was that if you do upgrade, the retained value helps to mitigate the higher cost. Gateway was a better brand 6 years ago, but that isn't the point. All brands of Windows suffer similarly. Home built boxes generally are the worst for resale unless you build a top notch box make the right component choices, AND just happen to find the right buyer. I have been there and done that. Built probably 12-15 computers from scratch over the years for myself, friends, or family. I don't miss it.
I was lead to believe that you can only purchase from iTues. So do you have to transfer it to MP4 (or whatever their audio protocol is) before you play? Or can it play MP3?
iTunes handles MP3 format with no problems, issues, or complexities whatsoever.
I really don't care about the EULA stuff as it doesn't affect me. I use Kindle software for my e-book reading (what little I do), even on the iPad and Mac.
I agree Macs ain't for everyone and like you say folks should choose based on their uses and needs (true of just about anything from computers to motorcycles to women!). Problem is that a lot of folks get bad info and make decisions based on rumor and falsehoods.
Look at your own original post regarding memory upgrades and MP3 compatibility, you put that out as fact when it was absolutely not the case. Was it a lie, ignorance, or just repeating something you heard? Regardless, it was erroneous info that is now "out there". There are some folks who will see a first post or hear something, never follow up or look for confirmation, and start the "I heard that..." chain and pass it on.
I just wanted to put out another perspective from someone who did the Windows thing from 3.0 all the way to 7 (and DOS before that), spent many years questioning - and bad mouthing - Macs, but then was won over after giving them a closer look.
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Memory updrage and MP3 compatibility - that is why we are having this discussion here.
As for people being misinformed, it goes both ways. Maybe you should wander around the apple booth to see the misinformation the spout out - of course, that will be termed as sales pitch. So, yes, it can go both ways.
Cholla, if I am understanding AZBiker correctly, what he is saying is that you can dual boot a MAC to have windows there. But you cannot uninstall OS10 and install just windows or Linux as the only OS. AZBiker can correct me if I misstated.
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From what I have heard it can be done. Doesn't mean the Mac isn't a PC.
Yes, strictly speaking, the Mac is a "PC" since PC=Personal Computer.
Generally when people refer to a "PC" they are using it as a generic term for any box using the Windows OS, it is semantics.
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Memory updrage and MP3 compatibility - that is why we are having this discussion here.
As for people being misinformed, it goes both ways. Maybe you should wander around the apple booth to see the misinformation the spout out - of course, that will be termed as sales pitch. So, yes, it can go both ways.
Absolutely can go both ways, I didn't say it doesn't. I hear a lot from both sides cheerleaders, and having used both I am able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
To be fair, I have never heard Apple employees bad mouthing Windows at the Apple store. What I have heard is them explain how a similar task is done on a Mac or point out what feature accomplishes a similar goal (iTunes vs media player, Finder vs Explorer, etc.). Now the clientele in the store may be different, but you can't blame the company for their zealots.
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Memory updrage and MP3 compatibility - that is why we are having this discussion here.
As for people being misinformed, it goes both ways. Maybe you should wander around the apple booth to see the misinformation the spout out - of course, that will be termed as sales pitch. So, yes, it can go both ways.
Cholla, if I am understanding AZBiker correctly, what he is saying is that you can dual boot a MAC to have windows there. But you cannot uninstall OS10 and install just windows or Linux as the only OS. AZBiker can correct me if I misstated.
The BIOS (or whatever Apple calls it) is looking for a specific set of boot instructions. The BIOS for Apple is NOT an open standard like on a PC. Those boot instructions are contained in the Apple OS and nowhere else. Any single-booting of a Mac requires an OS disc to start the BIOS. If someone has a MAC with a new/formatted hdd and no OS disc, it is a doorstop. The user is tied to the Apple OS forever. On the Mac I was repairing, the owner had lost the OS discs. Luckily he found them.
Mac laptops have optical drives that make nice noises and have nice external construction, even if they are filled with Foxconn on the inside. Also the power connector is a genius idea. So it's not all bad.
One of my co-workers was running an Apple OS on a PC, until Apple inserted code into an update that disabled the operating system. This was a legally purchased copy. So even when it's yours, it's not yours. Nice. Screw Apple's overly restrictive EULAs.
I would rather have messy liberty than an orderly dictatorship, no matter how benevolent.
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It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for
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It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for
Yeah, like overpriced parts that the dealer never has in stock.
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The first PC I ever owned was an Apple IIe in the early 80's. I stayed with Apple up thru Power Mac's in '96-97 until corporate needs required a switch to MS win98. Apple was going thru a tough time about then and aftermarket software makers were deserting them in droves. I became a defacto MS guy with windows 'putters, phones, ect. I also became the family "IT guy" dealing with crashes, constant windows updates, making new devices like cameras, printers, scanner and whatever all work. Not to mention the added expense of updating from Office '97-2000-2003-2010. Have you ever noticed that MS are REAL proud of Office?
Then last December I swapped out my 2+ year old windows 6.5 phone for an iPhone 4S. WOW! The difference was stunning. Like going from a moped to a Connie 14 stunning. Just like everyone who had an iPhone had told me: "it just works". Even though my win 6.5 phone was barely 2 years old and they had still been selling them long after I purchased mine, MS had already closed the "My Phone" website that offered back ups for contacts and photos. A few months later, they announced the discontinuation of "Marketplace" and any app you had paid for would no longer be available. There was NEVER one single software update made available in the 2+ years I had the phone and there were plenty of bugs. Their support, in a word; SUCKED.
By contrast, even an iPhone 3GS, which is pretty ancient by cell phone standards, is still fully supported by Apple. And that means fully: software updates, service, training, you name it. I expect my 4S will remain a viable phone for quite awhile.
By February it was becoming necessary to replace my old win XP machine. It occurred to me that I no longer need to conform to corporate lackey-hood so I did some shopping and found the same thing mentioned here, for the same processor, hard drive size, amount of RAM a Mac always lost out to a windows box on dollar cost. The sticker shock nearly caused me to ignore Mac's but I'm really glad I dug a little deeper. I found you shouldn't benchmark MS/Apple computers that way. You need to realize that a Mac comes not only with all those similar guts encased in a machined from solid billet chunk of aluminum, but they are pretty much fully loaded with everything you need software wise. That very expensive Office with Outlook email client you have to buy for a windows machine? Mail is already loaded on every Mac. iPhoto? Its on there. iCal, Address book, iMovie, Garageband? All there. The only programs I had to buy for the iMac were Pages (Word) Numbers (Excel) and Keynote (Powerpoint) and each is available separately for $19.99 and you can load it on multiple (5 or 10) computers. And guess what? Just like the iPhone, it all just works. And its soooo much easier to use. The best news? I am no longer the family IT guy.
And again, if needed the support is incredible. Imagine having Murph like support for your computer/phone/ipod or ipad. It's that good. Live near an Apple store? Enjoy free classes on any of the software mentioned and on how to use your device. Apples phone support is based in the USA with people that speak english natively. Buy an Applecare warranty and receive many extra years of coverage on your device. Buy a One to One package and receive just that, one to one training on any of their software and help on your special projects.
Good luck finding any of that on a HP/Acer?Gateway/whathaveyou box.
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You know, there are more OSs out there besides Windows and Apple.
Why pay for an office suite AT ALL when you can get one that works great and saves programs in MS format and doesn't cost a penny?
Guess you've never heard of Open Office or Libre Office.
You went from pwned by MS to pwned by Apple in one step.
Wow.
I thought it was common knowledge that Windows phones really sucked. Guess you didn't get that memo.
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I would rather have messy liberty than an orderly dictatorship, no matter how benevolent.
+1 :thumbs:
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I wasn't a big Apple fan, at first. I had a Droid X for a long long time. I really liked that phone a lot. It was my second Droid phone, and I really liked the platform.
Well, you can't lock them down like you can an iPhone or a Windows platform phone security wise for work. So I had to switch, and I went with an iPhone. I wasn't really pleased at first... little things that the Droid could do, the iPhone wouldn't. The apps were different too.
Well as time went by, I started to notice something, and I liked it... my iPhone didn't crater or lock up twice a day like my Droid X did, and I was on the latest Gingerbread release at the time too. I actually like the iPhone now... have learned to use it. I just needed to learn the iPhone after using a Droid for so long.
Keep an eye on the Windows phone platform... you should see big things coming later this year.
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It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for
I take it the other way around Harley(MAC) and PC(Concours).
Harley is all hip, nice, shiny and overpriced. And some owners think it is the best motorcycle in the entire world. I remember a funny incident at the end the ERC this year. This guy that rides a road glide comes to me with some ABATE forms and asks if I would like to join. He proceeds to comment that they do not care what we ride - two girls in that chapter even ride pink Kawasakies! Got me speechless! lol
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You know, there are more OSs out there besides Windows and Apple.
Why pay for an office suite AT ALL when you can get one that works great and saves programs in MS format and doesn't cost a penny?
Guess you've never heard of Open Office or Libre Office.
You went from pwned by MS to pwned by Apple in one step.
Wow.
I thought it was common knowledge that Windows phones really sucked. Guess you didn't get that memo.
I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.
Yes, I've used Open Office in the past. Yes, I've gotten malware/virus from it. Thanks, but no thanks.
The windows phone I learned the hard way. You would have thought the mighty MS could do better, but true to form, they blew it. But there weren't many alternatives at the time. Palm? That didn't end well. Android had just been introduced and it wasn't very impressive. And the iPhone wasn't yet available on my carrier.
Happiness for me is having everything in the same ecosphere working together in harmony. Take a photo on my iPhone and thanks to iCloud *poof* there it is on my computer. Edit or add a contact on either device and *poof* there it is on the other. Sharing documents is just as easy. The best part is it just works. No mad skills required.
To each their own.
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I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.
Just curious, but have you tried linux lately? I've got Ubuntu 12.04, on a 2GB memory stick, that I can stick into any computer and it configures itself. (I don't use it a lot, but it comes in handy when rescuing screwed up Windows boxes)
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I take it the other way around Harley(MAC) and PC(Concours).
Harley is all hip, nice, shiny and overpriced. And some owners think it is the best motorcycle in the entire world. I remember a funny incident at the end the ERC this year. This guy that rides a road glide comes to me with some ABATE forms and asks if I would like to join. He proceeds to comment that they do not care what we ride - two girls in that chapter even ride pink Kawasakies! Got me speechless! lol
So how much does Kawasaki sell our OE rear valve stems for?
For my C-10, it was $35. Got one for a Triumph for $12 that works great though. 90 degree, super low profile, just over 1/3 the price.
How much does Kawasaki sell OE float bowl seals for? Last thing I saw was $13.95 EACH. From H-D, around $5. Yes they fit, and they are even in stock. If they didn't fit then my C-10 would be leaking gas all over the place.
Ask a smart KLR owner where they buy a replacement diaphragm if theirs goes bad. H-D is half the price of Kawasaki and the local dealer probably has one IN STOCK.
Look at the fasteners used an a stock C-10. Compared to even a base-model XL they are cheap junk. Otherwise, Murph wouldn't sell a kit that brings the bike up to the level one gets with a stock H-D.
The brakes on my 2001 XL were fixed-rotor stainless and the rotors were made in the USA, iirc. It had 4-piston opposed calipers also. A brandy-new rotor costs $120 from H-D. Ever checked the price for a pre-94 fixed-rotor C-10? Bout $300 each, aren't they? Sure, they have a slightly larger diameter than the H-D so they take a little more material to produce but does that warrant the 250% price increase?
My 2001 XL had more advanced instrumentation than a 2006 Concours. 2006--mechanical, inaccurate speedo and mechanical odometer. Really, Kawasaki?
My C-10 has cost me way more in parts than my XLH ever did. That's just stuff to keep the bike on the road, running properly, serviced and safe. I don't buy all that chrome crap and I'm not really into farkles.
Still better than not riding at all though. I don't know who will make my next bike but I do know who won't be making it.
Just curious, have you ever turned a wrench on an H-D or owned one?
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I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.
Yes, I've used Open Office in the past. Yes, I've gotten malware/virus from it. Thanks, but no thanks.
The windows phone I learned the hard way. You would have thought the mighty MS could do better, but true to form, they blew it. But there weren't many alternatives at the time. Palm? That didn't end well. Android had just been introduced and it wasn't very impressive. And the iPhone wasn't yet available on my carrier.
Happiness for me is having everything in the same ecosphere working together in harmony. Take a photo on my iPhone and thanks to iCloud *poof* there it is on my computer. Edit or add a contact on either device and *poof* there it is on the other. Sharing documents is just as easy. The best part is it just works. No mad skills required.
To each their own.
So you are a fan of the Benevolent Dictator. Got it.
Just so I can get my head around this, you are saying that you downloaded Open Office DIRECTLY from the Open Office servers and got a virus from it? Not from some mirror that you found by googling Open Office, but from the link provided on their actual website.
Or are you talking about badbunny, which can only be gotten by OPENING AN EMAIL ATTACHMENT. OO had one, as opposed to the many that affect MS Office. And that one was 5 years ago. It came in the form of an OO Draw document. I guess that one would be easy to miss considering the number of .odg documents you were getting.
Since when does it take an hour to install linux? It took awhile for me to install the OS on the Mac, seeing as it is on 2 DVDs, but linux?
Fits on a single CD and has everything.
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Does anyone realize MS Office was written for the Mac FIRST?
And, yes, I understand what was being said about taking a blank HDD and booting from it. I understand it can be done by making a small mod on the motherboard which allows the OS on the drive to access the BIOS.
Been using Macs since before they were Macs-anyone remember the Apple Lisa?