Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Zixxer10r on June 25, 2012, 01:21:17 PM
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I was wearing cotton slacks from work, running about 80mph down the highway, i didn't stop for any traffic at all on the way home and the engine didn't indicate any overheating whatsoever. This bike supposedly in perfect working order, i just bought it used last Thursday from the dealership.
The area where my knees make contact with just below the tank were 1st degree burns for sure, and that was THROUGH my pants. When i got home i took care of it all, and let the bike cool down for 2.5 hours before thinking to take a temp reading... 102° at the spot where it burned my legs.
Has anyone else ran into this? I'm aware of the ankle burning issue, and that fix is supposed to be on it's was from Zteve any day now, this was not the same issue.
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Helps to keep the tank full.
Some have applied heat reflective foil to the underside of the gas tank.
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If you ride it backwards, you will have matching burns on each side and non one will be the wiser...
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Helps to keep the tank full.
Some have applied heat reflective foil to the underside of the gas tank.
Tank was completely full...i'm basically of the opinion that if the bike is going to burn me then the dealership get's to reverse the transaction and sell me another bike.
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You shoulda bought a '10 ;)
Try adding a self adhesive automotive heat barrier under the seat and gas tank. Tank bra might help too. A full tank of gas helps too.
If it's really hot, I don't ride. I have got the Zteve panels, self adhesive automotive heat barrier under the seat and gas tank and a sheepskin on top of the seat. It's much better now.
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I ride with proper overpants when it's hot... that extra layer helps... well, I rider with proper overpants most the time. 8)
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Like said they made changes in 10
I have a 11 but live in south Fl. So I bought used ZX headers ,removed the Cats, wraped the exhaust headers with that two inch exhaust material, added dual two brothers mufflers and Tech Spec tank grips, NO more heat . Mine never got hot just warm but that was bad enough.
Good luck jj
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When I first got the bike, I did experience heat issues. But now, not sure if I gotten used to it or if the engine running more efficiently, the heat is very manageable. I do not ride much on dress pants - mostly jeans or cargo. But yes, the area you are referring to, does get hot during a hot day. I have not been burnt by it though.
Zsteve's foam pieces help . I came up with my own solution to block the gap between the fairing and the engine on the right side. I just cut a piece of tractor rubber belt and shoved it in there. It helps block any heat radiating from there (one of the things that got fixed in '10 model).
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I have an 09 and the tank is extremely hot in very hot weather, even with the tank grips. I have always felt that the tank heat was worse than the heat on the ankles. A fresh refill helps a lot. At a minimum, you should were jeans or motorcycle pants, never street pants or shorts (for safety and protection against the heat). Much as I don't ride in the rain (unless I get caught), I try not to ride when temperatures are above 85 degrees or below 32 degrees; again, unless I have to. At those temperatures, the fun factor from riding is just not there and riding becomes a chore was than fun.
By the way, heat is just not an issue with the C14. I previous bike was a Suzuki M90 cruiser. In 90 degree weather, riding the bike was miserable, with heat coming from the engine and road. Other bikers look cool when they are riding in the heat but it is not for me.
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Here's a good read; http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9062.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9062.0)
I ride in DFW heat with slacks and shoes quite often, with little to no heat discomfort.
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I ride in Ohio at 85 and higher all the time, no heat issues at all.....of course no riding in slacks for me either. ;)
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It's possible the internal stock deflectors are out of position. Some have heat output issues with the 08/09s, unfortunately. My bike toasted me when I first bought it in the the summer of 07 (caught in a traffic jam in Asheville, NC). But Fall was close and I put about 10k on it before next summer arrived. By then the heat had lessened considerably. I associated the initial toasting with it being new. It never got unbearable whilst riding at speed, though.
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The highest temp I've had my 08 in was 105 degrees. The tank was HOT, but nothing that would have burned. Annoying, for sure but It was not, and I dont feel like it would have been dangerous.
I did add some silver insulation under the tank, and it helped, as did insulating the small panal on the right side thats easy to remove.
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Adding a full exhaust (no cats), ZSteve's heat shields, silver reflective sheet under the tank, and TechSpec tank grips make heat almost a zero issue for me. Yes my 2008 feels warm when the weather is hot but it is definitely nothing that is unbearable. My thermometer read 110 F yesterday and I felt fine [little warm]. You have a 150+ hp motor between your legs, it is gonna put out some heat, you just have to see what works for you to mitigate the effects.
Another thing I might suggest is totally removing the lower fairing foam shields. I did this last summer and the hot air hit my leather boots and lower legs where there is more material to block the heat instead of just one layer of from the knee up. It seriously made the tank cooler.
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Adding a full exhaust (no cats), ZSteve's heat shields, silver reflective sheet under the tank, and TechSpec tank grips make heat almost a zero issue for me. Yes my 2008 feels warm when the weather is hot but it is definitely nothing that is unbearable. My thermometer read 110 F yesterday and I felt fine [little warm]. You have a 150+ hp motor between your legs, it is gonna put out some heat, you just have to see what works for you to mitigate the effects.
Another thing I might suggest is totally removing the lower fairing foam shields. I did this last summer and the hot air hit my leather boots and lower legs where there is more material to block the heat instead of just one layer of from the knee up. It seriously made the tank cooler.
+10
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I have an 09 and the tank is extremely hot in very hot weather, even with the tank grips. I have always felt that the tank heat was worse than the heat on the ankles. A fresh refill helps a lot. At a minimum, you should were jeans or motorcycle pants, never street pants or shorts (for safety and protection against the heat). Much as I don't ride in the rain (unless I get caught), I try not to ride when temperatures are above 85 degrees or below 32 degrees; again, unless I have to. At those temperatures, the fun factor from riding is just not there and riding becomes a chore was than fun.
By the way, heat is just not an issue with the C14. I previous bike was a Suzuki M90 cruiser. In 90 degree weather, riding the bike was miserable, with heat coming from the engine and road. Other bikers look cool when they are riding in the heat but it is not for me.
I should have pointed out that my "slacks" are just khaki denim-weight material. I wouldn't ride a motorcycle in less weight than that, for the same reasons you mention. My biggest problem is that i had a full tank of gas and it was still scorching hot, and it wasn't even that hot in the grand scheme of things. The only reason I was riding at all was because i just got the bike and i wanted to get to know her. It seems silly to me to have just bought a motorcycle and to not ride it for 3 months until it gets bearable outside again.
Aside from ME spending a ton of money on things to fix a problem that seems to be a fundamental flaw, i suppose i have no other recourse.
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If you are interested in fixing the problem and want to keep your C14 you don't have to spend a bunch of money. A huge improvement can be had for around $10 by just installing the silver reflective material (you can use the windshield version or the automotive sound/heat blocker) under the tank and removing the stock foam pieces in the lower fairing. The hot air will exit the fairing easier leading to less heat soak around the tank. You will feel more heat around your lower right leg, but good boots should protect you from that.
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Lot of good advice here. Seems the OP can try some of the suggestions or..
Tank was completely full...i'm basically of the opinion that if the bike is going to burn me then the dealership get's to reverse the transaction and sell me another bike.
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I'll have to see what the dealership says after they take a look at the bike, i suspect they'll find "nothing" out of the ordinary. The 1.5 days I had with the bike were great, it's a wonderfully smooth and quick machine. It's not that i don't want to keep the bike, or try to make improvements to make it better, but i did just pay a ton of money for it and to immediately need modification to make it bearable when the weather gets warm is a bit of a ridiculous situation to be in. Most of you posters talk about how after 85° you don't enjoy riding all that much on this machine without modifications to cool it down...i'd say the yearly average temp here in TX is at that point or just below it.
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Aside from ME spending a ton of money on things to fix a problem that seems to be a fundamental flaw, i suppose i have no other recourse.
You did do some research on this bike before you bought it, didn't you? If I was in the market for one of these and saw posts about heat, I think I would have gone with a 2010 on up rather than the 08/09 models. We have lots of members that ask many questions before they buy or not.
Don't get me wrong. I feel for you and if you want to take the bike back then hopefully the dealer will work with you. If not, your stuck selling it yourself if that's what you want to do. How many miles on it? I take it this isn't a new bike.
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I did TONS of research on the bike before I bought it, I even took a "test drive" (and by that, the dealership took me around the block at speeds under 40mph, barely 2nd gear needed...so not a good test), i read every single professional review on the bike i could find, multiple posts here, complaint report aggregators and the like. I was convinced that with the Zteve foam blockers, the flaws that Kawi fixed in 2010 were not going to be an issue. Never once did i come across any information that said people were getting burned by the area just below the gas tank, wouldn't have given a second thought to buying the Sprint ST that i was considering as well had I run across information about burning.
So i buy the bike, finally get some quality saddle time and then i get burned. Never once was this an issue i'd heard of before i bought the bike.
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I live in Denver, I ride all summer long... it's 95+ everyday... yesterday it was 105*. Try riding with some mesh overpants... and if you're not riding with boots, those too. Huge difference than just tossing on some jeans or slacks.
Red 09 C14 33k+ miles.
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Don't think I don't appreciate all this advice, and especially since I appear to be against it all.
It's just that I JUST bought the bike, it shouldn't require anything more than the essentials (fuel, oil, a rider) to run great from the factory. I always wear boots too, I suspect i'd be complaining about my ankles being burned if i didn't. There is no way i'm going to wear another layer just so I can ride a bike that was designed to be ridden.
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Good luck.
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I certainly appreciate that. Here's hoping the dealership makes all the upgrades necessary, or let's me return the bike and get something else.
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If you end up getting something else, stay away from pre-2006 Yamaha FJR's and Honda ST1300's. They are just as hot.
If you buy used, I'd strongly suggest a long test ride in what you normally wear.
Good luck.
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I've got the 09, and the heat was unbearable! Bought a set of Zteve's foam inserts a couple weeks ago and it has completely taken care of the problem.
I have always thought my bike ran hotter than normal since the fans would kick on almost immediately when stopped, even in mild weather. I worried that Zteve's inserts might hinder the evacuation of heat from the motor, but I think it's quite the opposite. The fans are not coming on as often now and I'm completely happy. It was 102 here in Houston that last few days, and no problems at all! :hail:
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I've got those panels from Zteve now, i'll probably run them up to the dealership and tell them to install them since they'll already have the bike in pieces. I really hope they can get this bike cooled down, the bike makes me wanna get on it and ride somewhere for the weekend. My vulcan didn't do that.
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I need a set of those too. So many farkles...so little cash.
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Well folks, the dealership got back with me and told me the system was working normally and within spec perfectly so......it's going on consignment there. I just can't stand to be on a 150° bike when it's over 100° for months at a time.
Someone tell me the good news that the newer Connies don't have massive heat issues in the same areas as this! I really liked the bike for the short amount of time i had with it! Also, big props to Cycle Center of Denton for bending over backwards to accommodate my wishy-washy transaction.
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I need a set of those too. So many farkles...so little cash.
I'll shoot mine over to ya for the same price I paid, if you want them. I (obviously) won't be needing them any longer. :(
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You'd really have to hear from the '10 owners on up that had 08/09 bikes but as far as I know, Kwak did extensive heat mods on those bikes. Can't say that I've heard any complaints on heat from them.
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I bought an 2011 because I rode the 09 and the heat was a serious issue for me. The 2010 and newer bike has no heat issue. The linked brakes take some getting used to though. Overall I love the C14 and am very very happy with it.
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You'd really have to hear from the '10 owners on up that had 08/09 bikes but as far as I know, Kwak did extensive heat mods on those bikes. Can't say that I've heard any complaints on heat from them.
Actually the my '10 is the coolest bike I've ever ridden, or sat at scorching FL red lights on. I can't compare it to the earlier models, but I can say heat is a non-issue for me on this bike.
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I went from an '08 to '11 and it's night and day regarding heat. Many other nice upgrades too - outside temp, useful (kinda) glove box, etc. but the heat is non-existent. Make no mistake, though, that riding a bike with a fairing like this blocks wind and you'll have heat but it's not anything like the 08/09 but more like a normal motorcycle experience heat. Trust me, it makes the bike usable during the summer months.
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Why not try the Zteve inserts first before getting rid of it?! Makes a world of difference and simple to install!!!
:banghead:
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Mainly because that's not where the burn marks happened. I have those panels, but to be honest, since i wear boots with everything, it didn't really effect me like my thighs were affected.
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When I turboed my 09 I had a good opportunity to see how Kawasaki dealt with heat problems. It appears to me that they ducted the rads properly and then sealed all airflow to the engine proper. There is even a plastic dam above the radiator in addition to all the foam rubber found elsewhere. BandAids.
Clearly they did not take engine heat into account (or accord enough importance) when they designed the frame. I suspect they knew full well that this was an issue at a late stage in design but could not make changes until the next re-design.
What I found was that engine heat was soaking the frame backbone and then the tank above it with no way to supply and vent cooling air due to the close clearance and sealing panels and foam.
This whole idea of a backbone monocoque frame has some very serious drawbacks when it comes to heat and serviceability.
Anyway, I used the 2 air intakes located below the headlights normally used for engine intake and directed them to the area between the motor and frame and let it exhaust at the back bottom of the gearbox area. This fixed the issue by about 80%.
I realize that this cannot be done to normally aspirated bikes but it gives you an idea of what is going on design-wise.
I agree with the OP in returning the bike, it should function correctly right off the showroom floor. On the other hand it is also one of the reasons that brand new 09's can be had for a deep discount.
What we see here is an early decision to go with a frame that offers narrowness and airbox integration and then let the follow-on engineers try to deal with the negative issues that this design causes.
The loss of the current backbone frame would be a large improvement IMHO.
Fretka
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I'll shoot mine over to ya for the same price I paid, if you want them. I (obviously) won't be needing them any longer. :(
Someone will buy them From Ya. I can't swing it though. Just too many irons in the fire right now. Thanks for the offer.
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Mainly because that's not where the burn marks happened. I have those panels, but to be honest, since i wear boots with everything, it didn't really effect me like my thighs were affected.
Boots may not go with everything. Try pantyhose.
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My '09 gets a little warm in the summer, but no more than the '06 Road King I used to have.
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My '09 gets a little warm in the summer, but no more than the '06 Road King I used to have.
I was gonna say avoid ALL air cooled Harley's if you think the C14 is hot, 2009 or not.
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I was wearing cotton slacks
:o
Going to court or a wedding?? Please don't ride in slacks bro, it's not good for our Connie image... ;D ;) :chugbeer:
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Not sure why but my 08 is not the heat beast I read about on the forums. Certainly never caused the discomfort my Mean Streak or the sheer heat the Harley Dyna Low my GF has sitting in her garage blew on my right inner thigh.
I wear Olympia textile pants over shorts and boots most of the time I am on the bike. I do notice that area where the zip off legs opens on the inside of the thigh I can feel heat in the are you are describing but in no way is it unbearable. The few times I have stayed on the bike to fuel I have been amazed by how cold that gas feels against the leg as it flows into the tank.
OTOH, come early March and late October into the colder months I am very happy for any heat that I can get off there. It is going to be 102 here today, there is no question that I will go out on the Connie over everything with an outside chance the 1100RT may get ridden more because of the lower windsheild rather than the heat.
Sorry to hear that your experience was negative, with 4 bikes to choose from I rarely find myself wanting to ride anything but this one.
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I have always had the Kawi large windshield on my 08. I never noticed any excessive heat issues. I always wear AeroStitch overpants and tall boots. I bought a small Kawi shield and put it on. Today was the first ride with the small shield and I noticed much more heat in the lower leg area. I've been puzzling about how that is possible. Obviously the shield design could dramatically effect how the air flows up from the radiator and engine out the back of the bike. Perhaps with a larger shield more of the heat gets sucked upward instead of staying down in the leg area? Anyone else notice this phenomenom or was it too early for me to be awake this morning?
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If you are running with the small shield down all the way then it blocks the air coming over the fairing. It's really counter intuitive. You need the shield up aways to allow air to flow over the fairing and down towards the legs. I can tell the difference at speed if you move it totally up or totally down. This bike at slow speeds will act as a heat sink on the frame and it takes air movement to cool it down. You don't get the air near the legs if the shield is totally down.
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I have a '10, and I live in Dallas... Lewisville, actually. If you went to Cycle Center of Denton, I can only assume you're in the north central part of the metro area? I could probably arrange for you to "feel" how hot my '10 is. I am a daily commuter, and I don't care how hot or cold it gets, I ride. Last year my temp gauge hit 118 while riding up I35E once. I often ride in simple denim jeans. I have NEVER had my skin pinked by the heat of the bike, and I am a very fair skinned white boy.
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You should trade it in on a ST 1300 Honda , It gets so hot the gas starts to boil , a friend calls his Satans Chariot . How about a VW TDI then you have air and great fuel mileage ;D
Serious... get a 10 , 11 or 12 ;)
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I put 24k miles on a ST1300 in Houston. Warm, yes... hot, no. My Wing was hotter than the ST. Boiling gas, it's a common happening with ethanol gas mix and motorcycles these days... Google it up. My gas tank whistles softly after a nice hot ride when you shut it off.
Of course, what is hot to you may not be hot to me... personal heat levels being different.
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If you are running with the small shield down all the way then it blocks the air coming over the fairing.
Thanks for the response VirginiaJim. Interesting thought. I'll have to experiment with shield positions on the way home today and see the effect. I'll also have to look at the clearance on the two fairings. I didn't notice a difference when I installed the small one but I wasn't looking either. The big one has at least a 1-2 inch gap at the lowest shield position.
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1 to 2 inches isn't much and will restrict the flow of air. Are you talking about the stock 08/09 shield or is it an aftermarket brand?
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I have both Kawi shields. I bought the bike used (483 miles) and it had the tall shield. That is all I've ever run until this year (36k+ miles) I bought a stock 08 shield (shorter) from someone, hoping to get more air in the summer heat. I put it on and ran with it for the first time this morning and noticed more foot/leg heat. It seems to me that the gap between the fairing on the short shield is less than that on the tall shield. I'd have to reinstall the tall one to be sure though. I'll play with the position more and see what happens.
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Well, it looks like the OP is happy, so the dealership apparently made the right decision. It has been a long time since I have found the heat on the C14 uncomfortable. Living in the Phx, AZ area, I suppose that I may be less heat-sensitive than many. I've adjusted the factory heat shields and wear protective gear (I don't ride wearing just thin pants or shorts on my legs), and don't have an issue on the 08. Interestingly, I find the heat from the bike more noticeable at 85F than at 110F. Not uncomfortable, but I will notice it occasionally. Adjusting the w/s will affect heat distribution, but the difference is not significant in my experience.
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97 degrees here at the moment with a heat index of 114. It's going to be a hot ride home today. :o
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I think the C14 ran warmer new than with miles on her, broken in... or maybe me broken in. 8)
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It seemed like that to me as well.
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The heat is a subjective issue. Same reason every time you visit someone's house, and you think, why do they keep it so cold, or so hot? The guy that owned my 08 first, claimed right here on this forum that it has no heat. It is like riding a furnace when the ambient temp is above 85 , in spite of removing cats, and etc. The only good thing I can say about the heat issue, it has helped me understand when folks at the dealership are blowing smoke up my ass--cause you are gonna get a LOT of that whenever you tell them your bike is hot....stories about how many bikes are hotter than yours.
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Reading this thread reminded of that when the C10 first came out I was ready to buy one. Fortunately I rode one on a hot August day and knew I would never be able to adjust to this scooter.
Fast forward to '08 when I am about to replace the bike I bought instead of the C10 and I am thinking the new C14 looks good. So I start reading the blogs and find out there is a good deal of complaining about the HEAT! So I keep my current ride because I can't find anything I like better. Then I see that big K actually listened to customers and made several significant improvements to the '10. So I vacillate a little more and finally spring for an '11.
And life is good -- love the scooter -- at best I can only come up with a couple of small (for me) items for a wish list. Pretty much the same stuff many other people have: no cruise, the potato launcher, etc. (Well there is KPiss, but I won't go there today.)
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Someone tell me the good news that the newer Connies don't have massive heat issues in the same areas as this!
I have never had any heat problems with my 2011. The tank does not get hot at all, it does not blast me with heat from anywhere.
Now, if it is really hot outside and I am stuck at a stop or crawl in traffic, yes, I am freaking hot. The fans kick on and blow that hot air up around me, the sun is heating up my body with no airflow, waves of heat radiate off the 150 degree blacktop... But pretty much all bikes are like that. (I wish it would reverse the direction of the fans when the bike is not moving- blow the hot air FORWARD).
And during hot weather riding, the stock windscreen blocks too much air (I might need to get/make a short one for summer use).
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I have never had any heat problems with my 2011. The tank does not get hot at all, it does not blast me with heat from anywhere.
Now, if it is really hot outside and I am stuck at a stop or crawl in traffic, yes, I am freaking hot. The fans kick on and blow that hot air up around me, the sun is heating up my body with no airflow, waves of heat radiate off the 150 degree blacktop... But pretty much all bikes are like that. (I wish it would reverse the direction of the fans when the bike is not moving- blow the hot air FORWARD).
And during hot weather riding, the stock windscreen blocks too much air (I might need to get/make a short one for summer use).
Moan, moan, moan.... ;)
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Moan, moan, moan.... ;)
No no no! I am just finding things that can be IMPROVED, which involves the fun and rewarding hobby of farkling. Right?
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Have been hitting this record heat for weeks now with no end in sight. Since I am ATGATT I find that to be the limiting factor. Rode a couple of fridays ago when it was 105 and actually shed my textile jacket only to have giant welts all up and down my arms from bugs slamming my skin as I tested the 50-100 accel times repeatedly as I passed on US 36 between PendletonIN and Cols OH.
It was hot and for the first time I felt heat on the right side of the tank by my thigh through my Olympia pants. It was not uncomfortable but I felt what guys were alluding to in their comments. Immediate releif when I gassed up as I could feel the coolness against my leg as the fuel was going in. Long story short....as long as I can stand to have the gear on and go then I can handle what ever heat is given off by the bike...and since I ride down into 30 degree territory ...I like any heat I can get. if it is too hot for me to be outside on the bike....my Dodge Ram or the Honda Si have excellent A/C.
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I think it's obvious that the 08's and 09's put out some heat or Kawasaki wouldn't have modified the bike's fairing. They seem to have done a good job with that. I think the amount of heat can also vary by individual bikes.
I have a 08 and it runs hot and it is noticable. I think its tolerable, but is there. My bike runs at least 2 bars all the time and in warmer weather it will run 3-4 bars on the temp gauge. It gets hot in all the typical places, ankles (left seems worse on mine) and from around the tank.
I ride ATTGATT so it doesn't bother me that much. The recent 95+ heat has made the heat from around the tank especially distracting. Still love my bike though and wouldn't give it up for anything else (well maybe a silver 2011)!
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Still love my bike though and wouldn't give it up for anything else (well maybe a silver 2011)!
:)
You can't have mine!!!
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Still love my bike though and wouldn't give it up for anything else (well maybe a silver 2011)!
It's not a proper silver like the 08. I'm keeping mine, heat and all. Makes me feel alive.
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It's not a proper silver like the 08.
It is a real silver, instead of a light blue like the 08 ;)
I'm keeping mine, heat and all. Makes me feel alive.
Burn baby, burn!
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Finally got some storms movng through here this am. Interesting thought after riding in the heat for weeks on end this summer....this am I got caught in pretty nasty downpour...as I was heading up the road and my arms and shoulders were getting wet I felt a chill and looked at the thermometer and saw 61 degrees and shivered for a second then I realized how nice and warm my legs were fromthe lil bit o heat coming off the engine. I can live with that as I probably have more 35-80 degree days of riding than I do 81-105. Sure felt good in the absence of pulling off and putting onthe frog toggs.