Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Maverick on May 31, 2012, 01:39:31 PM
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I dropped my bike at my Kawasaki exclusive dealer. After couple of days, no news.
I finally got one of his staff on the phone and I was told that after completing the check, they put the bike on the bench and it leaked upon testing.
She could not tell me what was leaking or where, but she just said that owner was working himself after hours to fix the problem.
I am just wondering what could have gone wrong, the bike was running great before, and it has to be serious since it is taking so much time to get the problem fixed.
Any ideas??
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Beware of stealership mechanics, hope they plug whatever leak correctly for you
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I am thinking more and more of just leaving mine alone.
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We all know a valve check for this bike is more involved than others. I think once things settle in swapping valve shims could be far between. BUT just any other mechanical lifter/valve train they do have to be checked. When and how often seems to be the question. I would rather go through the mess of checking clearance than replacing a burned valve or two.
My local Hardly/Kawa wrench said he thought the valve check at 15,000 miles was too soon, but I had it done anyways for piece of mind. (no changes)
My former boss always made fun of me when I followed the maintenance schedule. I try to follow the rules because unlike the old boss, I have not blown any pistols up.
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A likely scenario is that the mechanic knocked the valve cover gasket out of place when he replaced the cover.
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A likely scenario is that the mechanic knocked the valve cover gasket out of place when he replaced the cover.
Very possible. I almost screwed mine up when I was tightening my valve cover down and fixed it before I pinched the gasket.
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A likely scenario is that the mechanic knocked the valve cover gasket out of place when he replaced the cover.
+1........
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OK, just got the bike back, he did not forget the gasket, but he put the old one back on, and for some reasons it was no longer a tight fit, the new one was still sitting in his tool tray ! When he put a new one back on, no problems ! but that caused him a lot of overtime coz he had to wait for the bike to cool down before changing it !! I was not charged, still a hefty bill of around 900 USD but all fluids in the bike except fork oil were changed.
As to the valve correction changes, at 26200 miles, almost 11k mi more of what is recommended in the US, a minor adjustment had to be made on certain valves, Kawa manual states that normal should reading should be between 0.19 and 0.25, 5 valves were at 0.16 the rest within specs.
He said, that my engine was in impeccable working condition, I am very happy with my PC5 custom map, coupled with auto tune set up a 1% correction... I am good for another 25K mi.
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Time for a new mechanic!
OK, just got the bike back, he did not forget the gasket, but he put the old one back on, and for some reasons it was no longer a tight fit, the new one was still sitting in his tool tray ! When he put a new one back on, no problems ! but that caused him a lot of overtime coz he had to wait for the bike to cool down before changing it !! I was not charged, still a hefty bill of around 900 USD but all fluids in the bike except fork oil were changed.
As to the valve correction changes, at 26200 miles, almost 11k mi more of what is recommended in the US, a minor adjustment had to be made on certain valves, Kawa manual states that normal should reading should be between 0.19 and 0.25, 5 valves were at 0.16 the rest within specs.
He said, that my engine was in impeccable working condition, I am very happy with my PC5 custom map, coupled with auto tune set up a 1% correction... I am good for another 25K mi.
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Time for a new mechanic!
I'm not sure I would go that far, as he did right by the customer, and fixed the problem at his own expense (nobody is perfect, and mistakes do happen). Certainly better then claiming it was done when it really wasn't.
There's a lot of stuff to go through on this bike just to get to the valve cover, and with the distractions of a shop, one could easily think they changed the gasket, but didn't.
The urge to reassemble it and hear it run after doing all that is really strong, and could cause one to overlook which gasket is which. Plus, it's a rubber gasket, so just looking at it wont tell you much. You would probably have to do a side by side comparison to tell which was new and which was used.
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I am fearful to take my bike to the local dealer for a valve check. Around here, most of the bikes sold seem to be dirt bikes and cruisers. I have only seen two C14's on the sales floor since '08, never seen a ZX 14 on the floor at all. I asked the service manager how often they see these bikes and he kind of said "not often".
To me that means "never". I really don't want to spend $600-$800 to offer up my bike as a learning experience to a mechanic who has never worked on one before.To me, it is like agreeing to a surgeons first open heart surgery. I see excellent opportunities for breaking/scratching painted plastic too.When I first got my Suzuki, I brought it for a valve adj and it came back with stripped cam tower threads. As I learned, "why pay someone to screw up your bike when you can screw it up yourself for free?"
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I am fearful to take my bike to the local dealer for a valve check. Around here, most of the bikes sold seem to be dirt bikes and cruisers. I have only seen two C14's on the sales floor since '08, never seen a ZX 14 on the floor at all. I asked the service manager how often they see these bikes and he kind of said "not often".
To me that means "never". I really don't want to spend $600-$800 to offer up my bike as a learning experience to a mechanic who has never worked on one before.To me, it is like agreeing to a surgeons first open heart surgery. I see excellent opportunities for breaking/scratching painted plastic too.When I first got my Suzuki, I brought it for a valve adj and it came back with stripped cam tower threads. As I learned, "why pay someone to screw up your bike when you can screw it up yourself for free?"
It doesn't take a lot of mechanical knowledge or aptitude to do a valve adjust on this bike. Just patience, research before starting, patience during dis-assembly, lots of space to spread out all the parts you will remove, patience, taking digital pictures of everything along the way, patience, marking all the parts from whence they came, patience, time, coming back to this forum to share your troubles and experiences with us so we can laugh at with you, patience while we help you sort out what you did wrong, and oh yes, did I mention patience?
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I'm not sure I would go that far, as he did right by the customer, and fixed the problem at his own expense (nobody is perfect, and mistakes do happen). Certainly better then claiming it was done when it really wasn't.
There's a lot of stuff to go through on this bike just to get to the valve cover, and with the distractions of a shop, one could easily think they changed the gasket, but didn't.
The urge to reassemble it and hear it run after doing all that is really strong, and could cause one to overlook which gasket is which. Plus, it's a rubber gasket, so just looking at it wont tell you much. You would probably have to do a side by side comparison to tell which was new and which was used.
You are right, it was an honest mistake, he never hid or tried to lie to me, he just told me the truth, and error is human, so I appreciate his honesty and will stick with him, and it was a flat fee, he told me how much he would cost me before I brought the bike, since he did so many GTR before, and he spent far more man-hour on the bike than what he should have. The rest of the service was impeccable...
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It doesn't take a lot of mechanical knowledge or aptitude to do a valve adjust on this bike. Just patience, research before starting, patience during dis-assembly, lots of space to spread out all the parts you will remove, patience, taking digital pictures of everything along the way, patience, marking all the parts from whence they came, patience, time, coming back to this forum to share your troubles and experiences with us so we can laugh at with you, patience while we help you sort out what you did wrong, and oh yes, did I mention patience?
And few have the patience and "skill" that is needed to do this. Just check the clearances maybe, going further than that I would say no for most.
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And few have the patience and "skill" that is needed to do this. Just check the clearances maybe, going further than that I would say no for most.
I second that.
I'm even a professional mechanic that could do the job... If I wanted to. My choice to not (ever) do my valves myself was made the moment I read "shim under bucket". Devil's creation I tell you!
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. Just patience, research before starting, patience during dis-assembly, lots of space to spread out all the parts you will remove, patience, taking digital pictures of everything along the way, patience, marking all the parts from whence they came, patience, time, coming back to this forum to share your troubles and experiences with us so we can laugh at with you, patience while we help you sort out what you did wrong, and oh yes, did I mention patience?
I get this picture of a tech working on a C14 for the first time, with a backlog of some quads and dirtbikes that need warranty work and somehow, the image of patience and meticulous work doesn't come to mind.
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I second that.
I'm even a professional mechanic that could do the job... If I wanted to. My choice to not (ever) do my valves myself was made the moment I read "shim under bucket". Devil's creation I tell you!
Shim under bucket isnt that big of a deal, but the complication of the engine makes all the difference. My old Vstrom 1000 wasn't bad to do at all, did that myself with no issues. Was barely out of spec at 17k, but decided to adjust to middle of spec while I was in there.
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I am thinking more and more of just leaving mine alone.
I am thinking along the same lines. Shim under bucket adjusters stay within spec much longer than screw and nut adjusters. I have a Mazda 626 with solid valve lifters and shim under bucket adjusters. The valves have never been adjusted and the car runs great with 336,000+ miles on it!!!!!! I checked the clearance first time at 290,000 miles and only 2 valves out of 24 were slightly out of spec range on the loose side. So I left the valves alone. Mazda says do not bother with the valve sif they do not make noise.
So I am inclined to check he clearances on the C14 but if I find nothing out of range, I will not mess with the bike so I can just get them exactly into the middle of the range.
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As I learned, "why pay someone to screw up your bike when you can screw it up yourself for free?"
Agree 100%. When you do it yourself, you can take a lot longer, you are not under pressure to get the job done, so you will work more carefully.
Some years ago I took a mid 80s Mercedes 300SD turbodiesel for valve adjustment to this "mechanic" who specialized in European cars. He got exhaust and intake valve clearances mixed up and adjusted intake valves to exhaust valves spec and vice versa. I only found this out when it was time for the next valve adjustment 15k miles later. Needless to say I was not happy about it. After this experience, I always adjusted he valves myself.
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From everything I've read, I'll be checking mine about every 25K miles. I don't expect them to change by much, but I ride mine pretty hard, so it's not unreasonable to expect the valves to eat into the seats enough to put one or two valves slightly out of spec in that time.
I'll do it to keep vibrations down and performance up, more then anything else.
I do need to recant my earlier statement, and agree with Pokey and charles r. I've been wrenching on everything I own for my entire life, and I'm told I'm really good at it (it comes natural to me). I also have a compete shop setup with all the tools I need and a lift, so I tend to forget what others may be working with.
Doing the valve inspection on the C14 is a big job, requiring a place to put all the pieces you remove (and there are a lot of them), in some organized fashion. You also need to be able to leave them like that for a couple of days to a couple of weeks. It requires some tools you may not use very often, or may not have (magnet on a stick is really important, for example). You also need a place to have the bike, with the engine opened up, while you are waiting for shims, or time to work on it. It also helps to have small hands, and very good dexterity.
I certainly would not discourage anyone from tackling this job, in fact just the opposite. I would really encourage them to thoroughly research it from beginning to end, knowing what they are getting into before they start, so they wont suddenly find themselves "in over their heads".
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feh, I checked my valves at 36k. None were out of adjustment, although several were at the tight end of the spec.
I set all valves to the loose end. I'll check them again at around 65k...if they haven't moved....then I'll never check them again.
My experience tells me that on most OEM engines, after the initial valve adsjustment, most Japanese engines tend to keep the same clearance.
YMMV.