Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: katata1100 on May 01, 2012, 03:33:05 PM
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I have noticed that on my '11 C14, the idle will hunt, go to 2000rpm, down to 1000rpm go up and down. It is most noticeable in eco mode, goes away after a few minutes. is this normal?
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I have noticed that on my '11 C14, the idle will hunt, go to 2000rpm, down to 1000rpm go up and down. It is most noticeable in eco mode, goes away after a few minutes. is this normal?
That is not atypical for some gasoline engines but a 1,000 RPM swing seems kinda large. Lots of things could cause this- type of gas, not running right grade, ambient temps, ignition miss, flaky plug, problematic sensor.... others can make additional suggestions.
I don't see much fluctuation at all on my 2011 Concours. Eco mode runs very lean, so it is likely to amplify any variance that was present.
You should report:
1) Exactly how old the bike is
2) How many miles on it
3) Has it always done that
4) When did it start
5) What type/grade of gas being used
6) Where you are located (temp/altitude hints)
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Did you post on COG's website also by any chance, if you did they gave you tons of information.
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Unlike us where we hardly give you the time of day.... ::)
Oh, my bike will fluctuate a bit until it warms up but it's more of a vibration/hum than changing of the rpms.
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You should report:
1) Exactly how old the bike is
2011
2) How many miles on it
7000 miles
3) Has it always done that
yes
4) When did it start
first notice when bike had maybe 1000 miles
5) What type/grade of gas being used
premium gas, 91 is the best I can get, occassionally toss in a little Techron
6) Where you are located (temp/altitude hints)
altitude 4700', temp today was 68
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Unlike us where we hardly give you the time of day.... ::)
Oh, my bike will fluctuate a bit until it warms up but it's more of a vibration/hum than changing of the rpms.
8)
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Probably due to that really expensive gourmet fully synthetic pure ester base oil you use.......just sayin. ;)
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2011
7000 miles
premium gas, 91 is the best I can get, occassionally toss in a little Techron
altitude 4700', temp today was 68
Hmm, pretty new bike. Pretty much always did it. Reasonable temps. Way high elevation! That might explain the lower octane max available. I thought for sure other people would jump in with some suggestions. My only one would be to contact the dealer and ask them. The Concours has an excellent warranty and most dealers are happy to troubleshoot.
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Unlike us where we hardly give you the time of day.... ::)
Isn't the time of day always martini time Sparky? ;)
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A thread full of win right here (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)
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Humor me, what do you have idle set at (warm)? We seem to have come to a range of 1150-1250, helps smooth out shifts as well. Maybe a squirt on the linkage is order, see if the cold start linkage is binding?
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Probably due to that really expensive gourmet fully synthetic pure ester base oil you use.......just sayin. ;)
Nope, it also did it with the cheap Rotella 5-40 I used between 500-2200 miles ;D
91 octane is no just limited to my area, it is the highest you'll find in CA. Our gas comes in from the SF Bay area. Go to Los Angeles or anywhere else and you'll only find 91. There might be a few places selling race gas, but that stuff will go for maybe $6 a gallon or more.
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One thousand jumps seems high to me. Mine is a 2008 and will jump a wee bit (barely noticeable) when it is cold, but not by 1000. I do not think it will harm to have dealer check it out or like SoP said, set the idle a bit high to see if it will go away.
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My 09 runs a little bit rougher when first started, but the rpm does not vary by much - I would say a 1000 variation in rpm is unusual.
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Just after cranking up the bike rpms are high: didn't take note of the exact number, but they're clearly udible.
I usually let the engine warming up for less than one minute on the side stand while wearing the gloves and adjusting my gear.
Then I mount the bike and pull it vertical.
When doing so, magically the rpms go down to the normal value.
It seems that there's some kind of inclination sensor. :)
Mine is MY2011
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That's not normal. Mine is an 08 and has never done that.
Does the idle speed settle down after the bike warms up?
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Sounds to me like the engine temp sensor is fubar.
When ya start a cold motor, the sensor detects the low temp and engages "fast idle" until the motor warms up.
Once it's warmed up it drops back to regular idle.
Take it back to the Kawi dealer as a warranty repair.
Ideally, trailer it there so you can demonstrate it happening to a cold motor.
There is a tilt sensor but all it does is detect if the bike is more or less than 60degrees from vertical.
If more than 60degrees then you have crashed and the sensor kills the motor.
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Isn't the time of day always martini time Sparky? ;)
Of course!
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When my bike is cold, the idle speed will vary slightly but not 1000 RPMs.
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Do you have a power commander? If so, you can richen up your idle by replacing the "0"s with say a "5" in the 0% column from 500-2000 rpms. After doing intake an exhaust mods on my FZ1 I got the "hunting" idle you're describing until I adjusted my PC map. My '09 C14 with same mods has never needed any adjustment to the idle mix. Also make sure your power commander is calibrated correctly to your TPS within the software.
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When cold in Eco mode the revs are higher on mine at 'idle' until the motor is warm (about 2 mins then sits down at is normal tickover speed.
Its normal for the motor to do this because of the mixture variation the various sensors give the ecu to run the bike.
If however it is doing this when warm it sounds like you have a glitch in one of the sensors be that fuel, air or mixture. The plug and play gizmo at the dealers will identify if there is a fault I'm sure.
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i have a 2011 bought 2 months ago, 2000miles or so, mine hase been doing that since it came out of the box, figure it is normall. till it warms up,
andy
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Update!!!!
I took it to the dealer, where it is now. They said that they started bike up, noticed the idle problem and don't think it is normal. They said they don't know what is wrong as no codes were thrown. They are waiting on a call from Kawasaki on where to go for this.
FWIW, I don't think it is normal and it borders on dangerous to have an idle at 2000 rpm, even if it is temporary.
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Update!!!!
I took it to the dealer, where it is now. They said that they started bike up, noticed the idle problem and don't think it is normal. They said they don't know what is wrong as no codes were thrown. They are waiting on a call from Kawasaki on where to go for this.
FWIW, I don't think it is normal and it borders on dangerous to have an idle at 2000 rpm, even if it is temporary.
That is good to know you are not crazy, afterall :) Do keep us posted with further updates!
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My 2010 did this when it was new. The base idle was too high. After I adjusted it the surging problem went away.
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My 2010 did this when it was new. The base idle was too high. After I adjusted it the surging problem went away.
My idle (from memory) is around 1100 rpm- I don't consider that too high.
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Got a call from the dealer-
Kawasaki said that it is normal for the idle to fluctuate up and down while cold, no fix available.
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Got a call from the dealer-
Kawasaki said that it is normal for the idle to fluctuate up and down while cold, no fix available.
Utter crap. Tell them that you are on the forum and that many hundreds of other owners have told you that it is NOT normal.
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This morning I've carefully checked the engine start up and few moments later.
As soon as I crank up the bike, the engine goes up to 1400 rpms.
Temperature was 14 °C.
After about 1 minute and if I give just a quick turn to the throttle, it goes down to standard idle at 900 rpms.
For few seconds it goes up and down to 1300 and then it stabilizes.
For your info.
Ugo
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Not normal.....mine goes up to about 1600 RPM's when cold, then settles down to 1100 when warmed up. Too bad Fred isn't here, bet he would be helpful. :(
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Yeah, too bad.. ::)
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Not normal.....mine goes up to about 1600 RPM's when cold, then settles down to 1100 when warmed up. Too bad Fred isn't here, bet he would be helpful. :(
Try using the Concours Owners Group forum. http://www.cog-online.org/ClubPortal/ClubStatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=13528 (http://www.cog-online.org/ClubPortal/ClubStatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=13528)
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Just don't mention car tires...
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I checked mine today. I turned the knob to "on" and pushed the starter button. No twist of the grip necessary or needed. The bike started right up and settled into a steady idle around 1400 rpm's. After it warmed up it went down to around 1000 rpm's.
I followed that up with a 2hr. ride, after which I filled with more 93 octane. I have an 08 C14. I do my own maintenance and run 93 octane always. I should mention that the flies have been removed and a Power Commander installed.
The bike idled the same before I installed the PC.
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Yeah, too bad.. ::)
+1
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Well, here's my theory, tell me what you think:
Bike needs more fuel when cold. It runs lean and when I engage eco mode, it makes the fluctuation worse as this is a leaner map.
The bike has an erratic tic. To my ears, it sounds like an exhaust leak and is always present. I am thinking the header bolts need to be tightened and that can help it run better at cold.
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Well, here's my theory, tell me what you think:
Bike needs more fuel when cold. It runs lean and when I engage eco mode, it makes the fluctuation worse as this is a leaner map.
The bike has an erratic tic. To my ears, it sounds like an exhaust leak and is always present. I am thinking the header bolts need to be tightened and that can help it run better at cold.
Sounds reasonable. Get in there and tighten up those exhaust header bolts and see what happens.
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I think I fixed it! Maybe this will get me into the C14 Hall of Fame???
Today, early into my drive, I let off the throttle and the rpm went straight to zero- engine stopped running! I hit start and it started right up.
When i got back home, I checked the tightness on header nut closest to the fairing inlet- it was super loose! Every nut I was able to access (all but the inner nuts on 2&3) were very loose. I tighten them up the best I could and the loud ticking that was there before was almost gone. I hear a muted tick that seemed to go away when the bike was warmed, but I know I'll need to remove tupper ware and do it proper, including those nuts I was unable to access.
Oh, how did it idle? After tightening, i did some errands with wife for a few hours and when I got home, bike was good and cold. Started bike up, switched on Eco (since this made it worse). Idle jumped to 1400 (not 2000 like before) and quickly went back down to 1000. I drove up the street, let off throttle, it went straight down to 1000! I drove it the exact same way I do when the idle fluctuated wildly and the bike had perfect idle-no fluctuating!
Got to the garage, with helmet off, sounded pretty good, idle sounded smoother.
Here's my bottom line- if you have wildly fluctuating idle, check your header nuts as they are probably looser than Octamoms baby shooter. A thought went in my head to let the dealer tighten the nuts but I have a feeling that they might charge me saying that tightening nuts and bolts is a maintenance issue.
For those who posted that they have the same issue, check the tightness on your header nuts and report back.
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The last time I went to the dealer with my bike for TPS replacement they asked about the header nuts and the other recall/service bulletin items. This is a known issue and has been on the forum before. I would find another dealer for the things you can't do on your own. The dealer should have checked this. I would drop a nickel on the dealer.
Glad to hear the good news. ;D
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The last time I went to the dealer with my bike for TPS replacement they asked about the header nuts and the other recall/service bulletin items. This is a known issue and has been on the forum before. I would find another dealer for the things you can't do on your own. The dealer should have checked this. I would drop a nickel on the dealer.
Glad to hear the good news. ;D
I thought it was a dime?
The exhaust header nuts are a maintenance item and no dealer is going to tighten em up for free.
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I thought it was a dime?
The exhaust header nuts are a maintenance item and no dealer is going to tighten em up for free.
You might find one or two who would happily charge to snap a few off for you... :o
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I thought it was a dime?
The exhaust header nuts are a maintenance item and no dealer is going to tighten em up for free.
Back when the cream floated to the top of milk it was a nickel.
I thought there was a recall to have them checked. Especially on the early models. If not then its another cash cow for the dealers. :-[
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The last time I went to the dealer with my bike for TPS replacement they asked about the header nuts and the other recall/service bulletin items. This is a known issue and has been on the forum before. I would find another dealer for the things you can't do on your own. The dealer should have checked this. I would drop a nickel on the dealer.
Glad to hear the good news. ;D
Another dealer? Easier said than done. The nearest other dealer is about 40 minutes away and haven't heard anything good about him. After that dealer, it is about another 2 hours before there is another.
I haven't gotten out the manual but I bet there is a blurb in the maintenance schedule about tightening stuff up and if so, I can see the dealer charging me for it. Bike currently has 7500 miles. Rather than take the bike to the dealer and waiting two weeks to get it back (with the risk of something being broken or scratched), I think I can handle this job of tightening myself. If anything, I am behind schedule as I originally planned on having a new exhaust on the bike 7500 miles!