Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: martin_14 on April 04, 2012, 06:25:00 AM
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Like I said in the title, I just came back from the hospital. This is the story...
Since I get to try bikes of all brands and sorts (except enduro, which I don't care for) my boss booked me for an advanced skills training. We are theoretically bound to go through it every 2 years, but I do it every year because I consider my self a lousy driver. I know I'm not, but riding motorcycles doesn't give many second chances to people with overinflated egos.
Anyway, we were doing the ABS v. non-ABS braking and doing several passes at increasing speeds. We applied the front brakes only when driving by the cones on the test track, and measured the stopping distances.
I started with an ABS bike (I wasn't driving my C14) @30 mph , then 40 mph, and finally 55 mph. Two passes at each speed, pulling only the front lever brake in order to get used to the ABS kicking in.
The first 5 passes were a hoot and I learned to trust the thing. In the last pass, just when I was by the cones I eyed the speedo to check my speed and that's when I saw the red ABS warning lamp on. Unfortunately my hand was already on the lever and the signal was already dispatched from my brain. Next thing I know the front wheel blocked and smoking, and the instructor jumped out of my (eventually possible) path.
Now, I learned to do full braking on a non-ABS Suzuki Bandit so I am (or was) trained to let go the lever immediately upon front wheel lock up, but in this case I was so relying on the damn thing that it took me probably an extra half a second (and judging by the black mark on the pavement this seems realistic) to release the brake lever. This caused the bike to start leaning right and when I though I was going down I kicked the floor with my right leg. It was just a reflex, nothing to be proud of, but it did save me from falling at almost 60 mph. Both instructors congratulated me for saving the situation, although I keep thinking if it wouldn't have been a better idea to just fall, but I don't think so.
However, when my right foot touched the ground, because of the speed, it was shot backwards and my calf hit the rear frame. The doctor from the ambulance explained me that the hit was so hard that I almost got something called "muscle compartment" so they took me to the hospital were I've been under observation for the last 48 hours.
Lesson learned on my first training: how to brake without ABS.
Lesson learned on my second training: how to brake with ABS.
Lesson learned this year: keep in mind that things can fail, so never let go the basics out of your brain and be prepared to use them. Duh! :banghead:
BTW, I'm fine. It hurts a bit but it'll be fine in a couple of weeks, and I can drive my bike this weekend already :chugbeer:
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That is by far the best ABS post I have EVER seen. The skills possesed are far more important than the equipment possesed.
Heal quick rider,
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Glad you weren't hurt bad!
I had a Wing before my C14... living in Houston, when it rained, it RAINED! They really liked to use white markings for crosswalks.
I was riding into work, raining pretty good. I was making a LH turn onto a 3 lane road, with my green arrow... a BDC decided he would go ahead and make a RH turn at the same time, on his readlight. I had to lean a bit more to cut my turn... crossing over the slippery crosswalk, rearend start to slide out a bit. The old dirt bike reaction kicked in... put left leg out to keep from going down. Now, big difference between a 150lb and 950lb bike... LOL!!! I was pretty luck nothing happened to me. 8)
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Thanks for sharing. Did almost the same thing in my last advanced rider course, only no ABS just too much brake. I was on my Hayabusa so there wasn't much to hit when my leg went back so I was lucky and saved it. Scared the crap out of me and the instructor.
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I"m very glad to hear that your weren't hurt more than you were Martin! I'll bet that you have a very nice bruise on your leg eh?
What kind of bike were you riding at the time?
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So your saying the ABS had a mechanical failure?
You also didnt mention which method gave you a shorter stopping distance ABS or non .
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So what ABS bike were you riding? And I am not at all interested in stopping distances from ABS vs non ABS because there is usually minimal difference in distance if any. Better testing IMHO would be the same model of bikes, and it sucks that you got hurt while trying to better your riding skills. :(
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I could be wrong but the way that I read Martin's account, he never made it onto the non-ABS bike.
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"when I saw the red ABS warning lamp on"
I really think his point is things do fail, never rely soley on technology to save your bacon.
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I could be wrong but the way that I read Martin's account, he never made it onto the non-ABS bike.
Yeah looks like he learned to brake on a non ABS Bandit, really curious what the ABS bike was?
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"when I saw the red ABS warning lamp on"
I really think his point is things do fail, never rely soley on technology to save your bacon.
Agree!
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a mechanical failure is a mechanical failure and i dont see the relavence to the pro or against ABS argument.
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a mechanical failure is a mechanical failure and i dont see the relavence to the pro or against ABS argument.
What argument?
:popcorn:
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The title , " let me tell you about ABS" Ok mecahnical failure. i guess i was expecting pros and cons and performance of both. i guess not .
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Geez, Martin..... Glad you are ok!
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The title , " let me tell you about ABS" Ok mecahnical failure. i guess i was expecting pros and cons and performance of both. i guess not .
We've had a few of those threads...but not lately.
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The title , " let me tell you about ABS" Ok mecahnical failure. i guess i was expecting pros and cons and performance of both. i guess not .
Subject has been beat to death on most any moto forum, and never has a clear winner..........nor will it ever. I am a big fan if it, can save your butt more often than not.
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And so it begins...
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Or you may end it whenever you like Robin. :rotflmao:
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:rotflmao: You asshat, you.
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Martin- I am sorry to hear you were hurt, but I am also extremely happy it looks like it was minor when it could have been SO MUCH WORSE. Please get well soon.
It is frightening how dependent we become on technology working. And that is pretty rotten timing to have an ABS failure right before testing the ABS. It does make one wonder how often something like that could occur (might be something interesting to ask the instructors at that school).
Of course ABS can fail... but non ABS brakes could too... or tires... or even your brain (stroke, blackout, seizure).
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Three months ago I took a Riders Edge course with a police officer friend of mine , we used non ABS bikes , I made clouds of tire smoke ;) I stopped shorter than they ever recorded before, glad it was not my bike , would not want to try the same **** with the 14.
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thanks guys for all the cheering up. I'm sorry but because it was during my working time and other issues I can't tell you the bike I was driving, but that is largely irrelevant because as far as I know (don't quote me on this), Continental and Bosch are the HECU suppliers of every brand of bike that I can think of.
I really think his point is things do fail, never rely solely on technology to save your bacon.
Bingo! As somebody mentioned, I didn't make it to the passes with the ABS disengaged. Without trying to get yet again into the ABS vs non-ABS thing here, one of the trainers had a GS Adventure (you can disconnect the ABS on those) and braked 6 times from 45 mph, 3 with and 3 without ABS and the non ABS stopping distances were always shorter, by quite a margin. A couple of meters, actually, which can make the difference between kissing that car getting out of the supermarket lot or not. But that was an impressively capable trainer/test driver in perfect asphalt with good temperature. In the real world, things happen without warning and the ABS is there to save your bacon. Well, not always, as I "proved" :-[
Imagine this situation A: that old lady driving out of the supermarket, you coming at 35 mph, gravel some 40 feet before her car. You slam on the brakes:
- ABS bike will increase your stopping distance, which will probably mean that you'll hit her car at 10 mph. Hardly a bad thing, and insurance will pay for the iron.
- non ABS bike will probably mean that you'll fall and stop under her car.
Situation B: perfect asphalt, conditions, etc. You see an obstacle on your ABS bike and make a full stop, but only with the front brake. The bike lifts the rear wheel and you land on your head and crush your neck (no helmet can help with that). What happened? ABS detects speed differences between front and rear wheel. When the rear wheel leaves the ground, it's still spinning, so by the time the difference is detectable by the HECU you're already with too much pitch angular speed. This happened to one of the guys on a F800GS but he was expecting it because the trainer told him. The reason was that he weighs 240 and is 6' 8". That's why top heavy bikes have HECUs that recognize when the rear wheel leaves the ground. The C14 has a great ABS (comes on top on the comparos on German magazines) but doesn't have this feature because it's really not that necessary since its CoG is so low.
Like I said, technology is good, but it doesn't excuse us from mastering the basics. How many of us remember 10% of the numbers stored in our mobile phone? ;)
PS: sorry about the length of my posts. One can tell I'm at home with nothing better to do, uh? ;D
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had many bikes and they dont flip end over end from braking ,the front end hops. old 750 katana, gsxr 750 . old ass kz550 04 harley wide glide , front tire hops/skips at hard braking no end ever came up . never heard of such a thing unless your trying to do it , endo.
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:popcorn:
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pappy and his popcorn . i must give you a good show. ;)
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had many bikes and they dont flip end over end from braking ,the front end hops. old 750 katana, gsxr 750 . old ass kz550 04 harley wide glide , front tire hops/skips at hard braking no end ever came up . never heard of such a thing unless your trying to do it , endo.
I have a friend that just did an endo on a Ducati 1099 last month. I was riding behind him. Smooth, flat pavement. He hit the brakes to avoid a rear-ender. Flipped his 300 lb butt over the bars.
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Situation B: perfect asphalt, conditions, etc. You see an obstacle on your ABS bike and make a full stop, but only with the front brake.
I will point out that the above situation is actually not possible on the 2010+ because the brakes are always linked to some degree.
I don't want to turn it into an ABS vs. non ABS thread, either. But there are just as many situations where ABS could very well save someone's bacon, especially when they are not the perfectly trained riders that many on the forum seem to be :) I know, for one, *I* would not be able to do better than ABS.... but I am probably one of the poorer trained riders, which are likely the majority :(
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I have a friend that just did an endo on a Ducati 1099 last month. I was riding behind him. Smooth, flat pavement. He hit the brakes to avoid a rear-ender. Flipped his 300 lb butt over the bars.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :stirpot: :chugbeer:
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I have done stops like that my whole life and the rear end never came up . these guys arent moving their weight correctly.
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :stirpot: :chugbeer:
:rotflmao:
Today I picked my 1400GTR from work. First time I ride after what happened on Monday. I'm glad to say that I was not scared or anything. I thought I'd be somehow afraid or something, but I was actually happy of riding again, despite the crappy weather here in Munich. Actually, that was the reason I went pick her up and brought her home: it's supposed to rain the whole weekend and she has been standing outside the last 4 days :'(
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:thumbs:
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That's good to hear Martin.
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;D