Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Patrick1 on March 25, 2012, 08:30:38 PM
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After successfully finishing the Rostra CC installation, I went after the Flyectomy in preparation for the PCV-5 installation, however
the screws seemed to be made of soft copper. I used the instructions at: http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html (http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html)
but stopped after 2 screws unsuccessfully.
Does anyone have a PLAN B to get them out....or am I screwed ??? >:(
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It seems Your plan B might Be to leave them in, return the PCV, & get a reflash on Your computer module.
I encountered trouble on My last butterfly, so I drilled the head off. I used heavy grease on the drill bit to catch the chips, & did a thorough shop vac on the air valve with a piece of clear tubing and some duct tape. It is possible to drill them all, but if you have never done anything like that before, I wouldn't recommend it.
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I really like the color of that bike in the tutorial.
For me, the key to successful removal was using a JIS screwdriver. I didn't strip a single screw and applied no heat...
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After successfully finishing the Rostra CC installation, I went after the Flyectomy in preparation for the PCV-5 installation, however
the screws seemed to be made of soft copper. I used the instructions at: http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html (http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html)
but stopped after 2 screws unsuccessfully.
Does anyone have a PLAN B to get them out....or am I screwed ??? >:(
Did you break the screws or strip the heads? This will determine your next course of action.
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I had trouble with a couple of my fly screws (I didn't get the JIS screwdriver like I should have) and ended up using a dremel to grind slots in them to use a flat blade screwdriver. I think I had some success kinda hammering a Torx driver into one which gripped enough to pop it loose. I think I had trouble with about 3 of the 8 screws.
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Word of caution, dont hit it too hard, wouldn't want a bent shaft to add to your woes. Is the risk worth it? Yes, get them flys on the wall where they belong.
I do have a stock set of throttle bodies should that happen.
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It is definitely worth the effort to get the flies out, hopefully you can remove them without much more pain and suffering.
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:banghead:
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It's not too tough to remove the thottle bodies from the bike and get them on the bench. Much easier to work on, and you can make all the metal shavings you want.
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To answer one question: I just stripped the heads on two screws...and stopped.
This is the first I have heard of a "JIS" screwdriver. Arey the available at Ace Hardware or
else where?
I suspect for the two b-stards I will stuff some cotton balls oiled between the flys and
get the dremmel tool and drill a bit..... and apply the shopvac.
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:o seems like theres not many screws on the C14 that can't be striped. I pretty much can't take the wind screen off because of those damn useless soft allen screws,,,striped...
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To answer one question: I just stripped the heads on two screws...and stopped.
This is the first I have heard of a "JIS" screwdriver. Arey the available at Ace Hardware or
else where?
I suspect for the two b-stards I will stuff some cotton balls oiled between the flys and
get the dremmel tool and drill a bit..... and apply the shopvac.
JIS=Japanese Industrial Standard
http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html (http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html)
The inside radius profile of the slots are more square cut than a Phillips. Folks here have used both successfully..and unsuccessfully. The main trick is to heat an old screw driver with a torch then holding it against the screw to soften the threadlocker before trying to loosen the screw.
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Some information about JIS drivers and the secondary 'flies on a C-14 here:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=384.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=384.0)
Brian
To answer one question: I just stripped the heads on two screws...and stopped.
This is the first I have heard of a "JIS" screwdriver. Arey the available at Ace Hardware or
else where?
I suspect for the two b-stards I will stuff some cotton balls oiled between the flys and
get the dremmel tool and drill a bit..... and apply the shopvac.
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Patrick, just curious if you applied heat to the screws before attempting to remove them, as many of the guys had reported in the past that they applied heat directly to the screw head from a soldering iron to loosen the compound that Kawi used to secure the screws.
Another method to get the flies open without removing them is to use a GiPro TRE.
Good Luck,
Fred
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It's not too tough to remove the thottle bodies from the bike and get them on the bench. Much easier to work on, and you can make all the metal shavings you want.
IF........I was going to do remove the flys this sounds like the way to go $$$$$$$$$
I'm going with the reflash of the ECU, Traction control is one of the reasons I bought this bike and I would not want to hamper its use.
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IF........I was going to do remove the flys this sounds like the way to go $$$$$$$$$
I'm going with the reflash of the ECU, Traction control is one of the reasons I bought this bike and I would not want to hamper its use.
There are several people that have removed the flies from KTRAC equipped bikes with no noticeable changes in the TC operation.
disclaimer: I am not saying that there are no changes and I do not advocate any modifications that could make the slower 2010-2012 bikes almost as fast as the 2008. ;D
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There are several people that have removed the flies from KTRAC equipped bikes with no noticeable changes in the TC operation.
disclaimer: I am not saying that there are no changes and I do not advocate any modifications that could make the slower 2010-2012 bikes almost as fast as the 2008 2009. ;D
Fixed :D
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IF........I was going to do remove the flys this sounds like the way to go $$$$$$$$$
I'm going with the reflash of the ECU, Traction control is one of the reasons I bought this bike and I would not want to hamper its use.
Really? Traction control and linked brakes were the reasons I bought a 2009 instead...
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Really? Traction control and linked brakes were the reasons I bought a 2009 instead...
If you lived in Naple Fl. the heat of the 09 would not be that much fun, I was going to get a ST1300 till I learned about their heat Issues SATAN'S CHARIOT as one owner called it . I really don't have any back roads to have fun on , there was nothing here 30's ago it's all new and flat and square, with greasy hot roads that get rained on at any time, Tropical.
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Really? Traction control and linked brakes were the reasons I bought a 2009 instead...
Hmmm, you got sold a bill of goods then. Those bikes don't have traction control and linked brakes. How long did it take to find out it didn't have those options? ;)
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Hmmm, you got sold a bill of goods then. Those bikes don't have traction control and linked brakes. How long did it take to find out it didn't have those options? ;)
I think he mean't he "didn't" want those features, thus why he bought an 09...
Have another drink Sparky! ;) :chugbeer:
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JIS=Japanese Industrial Standard
http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html (http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html)
The inside radius profile of the slots are more square cut than a Phillips. Folks here have used both successfully..and unsuccessfully. The main trick is to heat an old screw driver with a torch then holding it against the screw to soften the threadlocker before trying to loosen the screw.
I removed mine with the JIS screw driver. I have to admit I was kind of worried given all the problem testimonials and you have to remove the outboard flys with the driver at an angle. I used a moderate amount of down force and no heat. Much to my delight they came out with no problem.
Mark
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I think he mean't he "didn't" want those features, thus why he bought an 09...
Have another drink Sparky! ;) :chugbeer:
Oh, I knew exactly what he was talking about... ;) :)
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Oh, I knew exactly what he was talking about... ;) :)
But of course you did... :loco: ;D
:grouphug:
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;D
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Took mine out last weekend and stripped the last screw. I drilled out the screw head.
I will say that the difference is huge without them and that I would do it again without hesitation.
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Took mine out last weekend and stripped the last screw. I drilled out the screw head.
I will say that the difference is huge without them and that I would do it again without hesitation.
Have you done anything else to it or 'just' removed the flies?
What difference have you noticed?
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Area P full system, PCV, BMC air filter, Fuel Moto's map, plugged tube to air box, and removed flies.
The biggest difference is from idle to 6k rpm in 1st to 5th gear.
- I can get going at idle making it more drivable. It's great in parking lots, I used to have to feather the clutch.
- It pulls way harder from idle to 6k. It pulls hard enough that I'm riding in one gear higher than normal and it still goes faster.
- It is as smooth it can get. Not that the bike ran rough or anything but it is noticeably smoother than what it was.
OD is still a dog, kind of seems worse but that might be because the other gears are so much better. I'm OK with this because that is what OD is for.
6k to red line is better but I haven't had chance to crack it yet. I've rolled on it and it rev'd as fast as I twisted the throttle.
I know everything contributes but I have to think that the increase from idle to 6k is from removing the flies and the map.
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Area P full system, PCV, BMC air filter, Fuel Moto's map, plugged tube to air box, and removed flies.
I just made these mods except went with the K&N air filter. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. I was just about to install all the plastics when my Top Block tip over protectors arrived.
I am really anxious to experience the performance difference. Thanks for sharing your observations.
Mark
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Be sure to let us know what you think.
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If you lived in Naple Fl. the heat of the 09 would not be that much fun, I was going to get a ST1300 till I learned about their heat Issues SATAN'S CHARIOT as one owner called it . I really don't have any back roads to have fun on , there was nothing here 30's ago it's all new and flat and square, with greasy hot roads that get rained on at any time, Tropical.
And If I lived in Naple FL, I would probably have 75K miles on it. I've owned it for ~2 seasons now; it has just over 5K total miles. Haha, yeah, when it's not raining here in the NW, it's cold and cloudy. I enjoy the leg heaters on my 2009. :)
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Well back to my original message....the HEAT and the JIS bits were and will be the right tools for the job!
Fly's are on the wall and the ROSTRA cruise works great on my first test ride, except we had wind gusts
to 38 mph from the north so a U-turn back to home cut the test ride short.
For Pappy, I plan to be camping this summer at Colonial Creek Campground....not far from your place.
Did alot of opening days at Blue Lake and Fish Lake in the late 70s and 80s....just south of you.
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Blue Lake is just 'round the bend, Wannacut has some great trout just waiting to be caught ;D Although I don't live there yet, I have a motorhome all setup and the boat is ready to launch. Road aint Connie ready yet, but the Jetta has no problems. Drop me a line when you're gonna be around, may go soak a line :)
Oh, congrats on the flyectomy, worth the effort? Sure was for me over 49000 miles ago, yes, I like riding in the rain :o
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JIS=Japanese Industrial Standard
http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html (http://www.ikaswebshop.com/hojisscset4d.html)
The inside radius profile of the slots are more square cut than a Phillips. Folks here have used both successfully..and unsuccessfully. The main trick is to heat an old screw driver with a torch then holding it against the screw to soften the threadlocker before trying to loosen the screw.
:goodpost:
That is exactly what I did with an old screw driver and no problems... without the heat the screws were not moving. I got that screw driver red hot and then just held it for a min or so on the head of the screw then they all came out very easy. I do have a set of Flyless Throttle Bodies laying on the bench if you are interested.... Cause I replaced mine with the ZX14 throttle bodies. :)
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Don't worry, I think there have been more failures than complete successes. Most people don't air there lack of mechanical prowess on an open forum. Four of mine came out fine, four stripped out. I drilled the heads off and removed the flys.
Then my ocd kicked in and I worried about the screw shafts eventually coming free and dropping into the intake. So, I drilled out the shafts too (nasty, ugly job) but the results were worth it. Much better low end grunt. That was 10,000 fun miles ago.