Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Locol on March 24, 2012, 09:45:01 PM
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I have found that I usually cruise at about the same RPM when I am out for a ride. At what RPM do you run your Connie at while on a typical ride?
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I like running between 3 and 4 thousand rpm. That keeps you where you can have acceleration when you need it and it seems to be the best milage for me.
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Fifth gear or lower when cruising, unless I am going faster than 75 MPH "per GPS". 8)
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Tough question, commuting/slabbing I tend to short shift, twisties and track 6k and up. But, flyless, full pipe, PCV, Autotune, and ZX14 TBs.
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I stay at 4k rpm most of the time.
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I spend most of my time in 5th gear unless I'm crossing Kansas or Texas, something just completely straight and low traffic. Then I get into 6th, econ mode and set the Rostra to about 9 mph over the limit for hours on end.
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It's a mystery to me why anyone would not put the bike in the highest possible gear when just cruising. Less rpms is always better unless you have a specific need to be ready to accelerate, such as moving through heavy traffic, on on a winding road. I'll put mine in 6th gear at 35-40 mph if there is no impending need for hard acceleration.
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Usually am always on the last gear (6) when cruising, the motor seems to just mellow out, and is always around 3 to 3 1/2 rpm's.
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I don't look at the rpm. The RPM is whatever it is at the time. Highway, 6th gear. If there is traffic 5th or 4th or lower depending on the speed so I can get a burst of acceleration if needed.
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I have found that I usually cruise at about the same RPM when I am out for a ride. At what RPM do you run your Connie at while on a typical ride?
Deja Vu. http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4542.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4542.0)
It depends on my "mode". If I am in cruising mode, I ride at the lowest reasonable RPM. At highway speeds (60-65), that is around 3K in 6th. But at those speeds, the bike has almost no power at 3K, so I will often drop to 5th gear, which I think puts me around 3.8 to 4K, when I feel the need to be less passive.
When in "fun" mode, you pretty much always need to keep the bike over 4K.
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I'll put mine in 6th gear at 35-40 mph if there is no impending need for hard acceleration.
Holy crap. I would never try to run the bike much below 3K like that. The bike would almost not be able to even hold any speed, and would shutter and strain with almost no acceleration. I don't think lugging will be good for any engine.
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@jscc 6th gear at 35 to 40 MPH???!!!!! you are lugging the motor and hurting it . Unbelievble ignorance and foolishness.
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I run about 3000 RPM's, good gas mileage, (42+) not bogging the motor and if I need to pass I down shift to 5 if I need a fast pass or tuirn the throttle for a normal pass. I don't run constanty high RPM's 6000 + like a lot of other riders, but I have never had any loose header bolts either.
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I usually run about 4000 RPM seems kind of like the sweet spot bike just purrs along at this RPM.
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I think my cruising rpm is fairly stable. On interstate posted speeds of 70 mph, I typically run 75-80 mph, in 6th gear, rpm's something less than 4K rpm. On primary roads with posted speeds of 55-65 mph, I typically take 5-7 miles above the posted speed, in 6th gear, rpm's 3.5 or less. On facilities such as the Blue Ridge Parkway with a posted speed of 45 mph, probably mostly in 4th and 5th gears, rpm's in 3 to 3.5 range
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It's a mystery to me why anyone would not put the bike in the highest possible gear when just cruising. Less rpms is always better unless you have a specific need to be ready to accelerate, such as moving through heavy traffic, on on a winding road. I'll put mine in 6th gear at 35-40 mph if there is no impending need for hard acceleration.
You are kidding! 6th gear at 35-40mph?
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I'll put mine in 6th gear at 35-40 mph if there is no impending need for hard acceleration.
:yikes:
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I'm in agreement that one should ride in the highest gear, but 55 seems to be the lowest speed you can use sixth in without lugging the engine. I'm usually in fifth or whatever below 60.
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@jscc 6th gear at 35 to 40 MPH???!!!!! you are lugging the motor and hurting it . Unbelievble ignorance and foolishness.
:pukeface:
Really? You effectively called someone else ignorant and spelled unbelievable wrong? Hmmm didn't you say....
...Bottom line is we are all riders and deserve respect equally.
:thumbs:
Shifting up 5th-> 6th 34 mph; shifting down 6th -> 5th 19 mph
I think I'll go along with jscC6 (and Mama Kaw) when he says "just cruising". I'm not saying that I "just cruise" all that often,
but when I choose to in 6th at 35-40 mph, I'm not hurting my motor.
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:pukeface:
Really? You effectively called someone else ignorant and spelled unbelievable wrong? Hmmm didn't you say.... :thumbs:
I think I'll go along with jscC6 (and Mama Kaw) when he says "just cruising". I'm not saying that I "just cruise" all that often,
but when I choose to in 6th at 35-40 mph, I'm not hurting my motor.
Nope......you are just boring the hell out of it, and that engine was not made to run like that. 6th gear is an "overdrive" gear, almost useless for me 85% of the time. Your life your bike and your ride. 8)
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unbelievable was a typo and yes you are hurting the motor its called lugging it.
"Lugging an engine means putting the engine under an extremely stressful load. A common way to lug an engine is to operate it at an extremely low rpm while the transmission is in a higher gear (for instance, leaving the transmission in fourth gear when it should be in second or third where engine speed is better matched to transmission speed). Lugging causes extreme stress between the rear thrust faces of each piston and the cylinder walls. Small bits of piston skirt can break away causing the rear surface to scuff. The best prevention for lugging an engine (either old or new) is to downshift to a lower gear where the engine runs more freely, and the transmission assists the engine in delivering peak power to the rear wheel."
Reasons not tolug your engine:
1. Loosening up of the entire drive train from the compensator sprocket to the transmission hub to the rear wheel pulley.
2. Premature wear on chains and belts, transmisison.
3. Damage to the connecting rods.
4. Overheating and subsequent damage to the pistons and valves in conjunction with pinging, detonation or pre-ignition (pick your favorite term)
5. Potential for shifting the flywheels at the crankpin.
6. Damage to the main bearings.
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Does torque come into play? Engine tune and conditions? Engine type? Rider attention, IOW, shifting PRIOR to need? I for one see no reason not to idle along in 6th at 35-40, until I need to accellerate, then I may drop a gear or 3, maybe even 4. If I am at a leisure pace on the backside of a mountain enjoying the view at 30 what damage will happen if I am in 6th? BTW, 52000 on the odo (08 C14), mountain state, and quite a few (7) trips to the track (Advanced Street Skills or ASS, yes, I am a certified SMART ASS instructor). KIPASS is the ultimate anti lug system as long as the batteries are fresh and SteveWFL is alive ;)
This is yet again another rides yours, I'll ride mine.
So, what oil should I run with car tires? 8)
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<edited Lugging Primer> Lugging an engine means putting the engine under an extremely stressful load.
Oh well now that makes all the difference! Due to your primer on lugging I'm totally convinced! Perhaps we
should make that post a sticky, or add it to the Wiki. You must be some kinda motorcycle engineering god.
How has Mama Kaw stayed in business all these years without you to proof read their owner's manuals?
Perhaps they just want to spend money on warranty work out of the goodness of their hearts so people will
stay employed. Yeah, that must be it.
I pretty much agree with what you said about lugging, or at least agree that it is bad for the bike's power train.
I disagree, as does Mama Kaw, and probably jscC6, and perhaps others, that "just cruising" in 6th above 34mph
is lugging on a C14. Going up hill with the throttle wide open at that speed in that gear would be. Just cruising at 35-40 in
6th, or even to gradually accelerate with a modestly increased throttle opening to 45 mph (if the speed
limit increased for instance) would not be lugging. Perhaps it's the "just cruising" term that is the problem.
Still, to effectively refer to someone here as an ignorant fool because you don't like their gear ratio selection after
you said on the other thread...
Bottom line is we are all riders and deserve respect equally.
..seems....well never mind...I've referred to you as a motorcycle engineering god, I'll leave it at that.
Nope......you are just boring the hell out of it,....
Agreed. :thumbs:
Your life your bike and your ride. 8)
:thumbs:
This is yet again another rides yours, I'll ride mine.
:chugbeer:
KIPASS is the ultimate anti lug system as long as the batteries are fresh and SteveWFL is alive ;)
So, what oil should I run with car tires? 8)
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
:grouphug:
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I am now at 245 miles on her, so obeying the owners manual by staying under 4k :/
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you cant fix stupid.
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you cant fix stupid.
Yes you can, right Jim?
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You're a funny guy, you know that.... ;) You may want to add the popcorn. Seems that's the kiss of death for a thread these days.
Keep it civil people....
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I try to cruise between 3-4k rpm. I try not to ride any length of time under 3 k.
Fred
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You're a funny guy, you know that.... ;) You may want to add the popcorn. Seems that's the kiss of death for a thread these days.
Keep it civil people....
:popcorn: :stirpot:
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Just cruising at 35-40 in 6th, or even to gradually accelerate with a modestly increased throttle opening to 45 mph (if the speed limit increased for instance) would not be lugging. Perhaps it's the "just cruising" term that is the problem.
Could be. But I doubt one can accelerate *at all* at 35MPH in 6th gear. Even if one could, even gradually would be "lugging".
Still, to effectively refer to someone here as an ignorant fool because you don't like their gear ratio selection after you said on the other thread.....seems....well never mind...
Agreed. Typically threads on this forum are very civil. Not sure why these personal attacks have to slip in.
Anyway, logically speaking, I see no reason to risk extra stress on the engine by going into an unnecessarily high gear like proposed (6th at 35). It won't save gas. It probably won't make any vibrational difference. And it leaves the rider with absolutely zero power available, even to maintain speed. And the driver has to jump not one but two gears to have any power (4th at 35), and three gears to have any real power (3rd at 35).
I, personally, would probably not go higher than 4th at 35. To each their own, however.
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Usually 3 to 4.5. 4.5 and up when I'm feeling froggy.
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But I doubt one can accelerate *at all* at 35MPH in 6th gear.
Mine can, but mine's blue so.....sorry, I just had to whip in some of that color business :stirpot:. I most likely don't do it (6th gear at 35-40mph) as often as jjcC6, but when I tour, I usually avoid the interstate and find a parallel road that has several little towns on it. Almost every one of them has a gradually lowering speed limit down to 40 or 35 mph.
I slow down and just cruise through town in sixth gear. As I exit the town the limit usually goes up to 45 and I slowly accelerate still in sixth. I don't give it much extra throttle to only go 5 mph faster. It does accelerate nice and smooth without any sign of struggle or lugging. Mine still has flies in and has yet to be re-flashed so maybe the blue ones can handle it better. ;) :stirpot: These towns usually let the 45 mph last roughly a mile before the 55 or 65 mph limit which is followed quickly by a 70 or 75 mph sign within a tenth of a mile so that's where I down shift to really accelerate to get "the flock outta town". If I make a stop, or have to slow for a school zone, then I'll stay in 5th for the remainder of the cruise through town. So no, I don't make it a point to just cruise at 35-40 in 6th, but it does occur frequently during a road trip for me. It's a good thing I've got that warranty, I'm probably killing my compensator sprocket as well as my muffler bearings
you cant fix stupid.
I agree, you can't.
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I am now at 245 miles on her, so obeying the owners manual by staying under 4k :/
And just what/who are you obeying by doing that? You do realize that your bike was already run hard and at redline on a dyno at the factory don't you? It is a new to you bike, that is why the folks that write manuals want you to ride like a cadaver. That is all!
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:popcorn:
6th gear at 35-45mph is like driving a Prius at 55mph on the left lane (the fast lane)...
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Let me reply to the many responses to my post about 6th gear at 35-40. Please understand that I'm talking about level roads, and it's not that common for me simply because I ride very few roads with a speed limit that low. My point was that I ride in the highest gear I can. I did not mean to throw stones or insult anyone, so I hope nobody took it that way. But I stand by my statement that I don't get why anyone would not get to the highest gear possible for easy cruising.
You should also know that I'm not a slow rider by any means. In the past two weeks I've seen top speed on both my Concours and my Ninja 1000, and I've been over 100 probably 15 times in the past two weeks. But there is a time and place for it, and a time and place (like in the Houston area where I live) where it makes no sense to me to run hard.
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2,900rpm in top brings up our open-road speed limit over here...
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I don't think you can wiggle your way out of this one Jim. "They" are on to you and are going to beat you accordingly for your misuse of your motorcycle. <chuckle>
I leave mine in 6th all the time. Sure I have to slip the clutch a bit more to launch it from a stop but it saves me having to make all those shifts. Besides, it shifts pretty clunky if you use [brand X] oil in the crankcase (that ought to take a bit of the heat off of you).
Brian
Let me reply to the many responses to my post about 6th gear at 35-40. Please understand that I'm talking about level roads, and it's not that common for me simply because I ride very few roads with a speed limit that low. My point was that I ride in the highest gear I can. I did not mean to throw stones or insult anyone, so I hope nobody took it that way. But I stand by my statement that I don't get why anyone would not get to the highest gear possible for easy cruising.
You should also know that I'm not a slow rider by any means. In the past two weeks I've seen top speed on both my Concours and my Ninja 1000, and I've been over 100 probably 15 times in the past two weeks. But there is a time and place for it, and a time and place (like in the Houston area where I live) where it makes no sense to me to run hard.
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I don't think you can wiggle your way out of this one Jim. "They" are on to you and are going to beat you accordingly for your misuse of your motorcycle. <chuckle>
I leave mine in 6th all the time. Sure I have to slip the clutch a bit more to launch it from a stop but it saves me having to make all those shifts. Besides, it shifts pretty clunky if you use [brand X] oil in the crankcase (that ought to take a bit of the heat off of you).
Brian
LMFAO. thanks Brian :rotflmao:
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Well for those of you that may not realize, here's what your owners manual said about it. Check out page 8 of "How to Ride the Motorcycle"
http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN (http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN)
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Well for those of you that may not realize, here's what your owners manual said about it.
http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN (http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN)
Blasphemy!!!!!!!!
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Blasphemy!!!!!!!!
Yes, it's for true....Maw Kaw is ok with you riding at 20MPH in 6th!!!
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Well there ya' go- Hey Jim, you might want to drop your upshift speed a bit to bring your riding practices in- line with Kawasaki. ;D
To the best of my knowledge, only really small engines suffer internally from lugging; single cylinder engines normally found on things like outdoor power equipment should really be used at full throttle or close to it to keep the bearings from being pounded on. Otherwise, I do not really believe an engine can be damaged by running it on the slow side. Besides that, lugging is more of a blanket operation thing than a direct engine speed; after all, idling engines are not lugging. If the load is light then low RPM use is not a problem and the engine will always let the rider know if it is- if it bucks, bogs and / or just does not respond to throttle inputs other than changing tone then it is probably turning too slowly for the load applied. There is a big difference between loafing down a flat road, not heavily loaded, at 40 MPH and climbing a hill, two- up, at the same speed and in the same gear.
Brian
Well for those of you that may not realize, here's what your owners manual said about it. Check out page 8 of "How to Ride the Motorcycle"
http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN (http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN)
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Well for those of you that may not realize, here's what your owners manual said about it. Check out page 8 of "How to Ride the Motorcycle"
Actually, it is page 144:
"Vehicle speed when shifting
Shifting up mph
1st -> 2nd 9mph
2nd -> 3rd 15mph
3rd -> 4th 21mph
4th -> 5th 27mph
5th -> 6th 34mph"
I do remember reading that and thinking it had to be some type of incredible error or the writer was on drugs. My friend totally agreed when I showed it to him.
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Yes, it's for true....Maw Kaw is ok with you riding at 20MPH in 6th!!!
No, the manual shows 34 MPH. But that isn't much better (it is almost insane)
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Yes, it's for true....Maw Kaw is ok with you riding at 20MPH in 6th!!!
No, the manual shows 34 MPH. But that isn't much better (it is almost insane)
I believe Steve D was referring to the down shifting section which says 19mph for 6th-> 5th, thus
all is well at 20 mph in 6th (according to Mam Kaw ::)).
...and page 144 is the 8th page of the "How to Ride the Motorcycle" section. :)
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:o
Drugs??
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/skajdiqwu.jpg)
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Initially, I got the tiniest buzzing at 2700 rpm, so I don't shift into OD unless I'm rolling at 55mph or better. I cruise around town - 35-45mph zones in 4th or 5th..I guess I like the way the bike feels over 3K in any gear... it makes me cringe to feel the motor bogging out when accelerating from too high of a gear.
My personal break-in thoughts...and nobody seems to have the same exact routine, but this works well for me in all motors:
I've been riding it how I normally ride from mile 0. I didn't put an artificial redline at 4k, because I think it's important to let the metal "stretch" where it needs to to allow the pistons to seat well in the cylinders at higher speeds. I rode it carefully for the first 20 miles, stop and go traffic around town so I would do a lot of shifting and changing engine speed and this allowed things to seat properly I think...after 20 miles, I rode it normally for a new bike - respected the power - smooth acceleration to 5k-6k in first occasionally. Changed fluids at 500 mph. Get any metal shavings from break-in out ASAP. After that...just ride it...and have fun.
I have 1000 miles now...and the bike and I are happy. Everything's loosening up and the motor seems REALLY happy at any RPM in any gear (at a reasonable speed). I respect the power even more now, but more comfortable running her.
Just my $0.02... :)
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Well there ya' go- Hey Jim, you might want to drop your upshift speed a bit to bring your riding practices in- line with Kawasaki. ;D
To the best of my knowledge, only really small engines suffer internally from lugging; single cylinder engines normally found on things like outdoor power equipment should really be used at full throttle or close to it to keep the bearings from being pounded on. Otherwise, I do not really believe an engine can be damaged by running it on the slow side. Besides that, lugging is more of a blanket operation thing than a direct engine speed; after all, idling engines are not lugging. If the load is light then low RPM use is not a problem and the engine will always let the rider know if it is- if it bucks, bogs and / or just does not respond to throttle inputs other than changing tone then it is probably turning too slowly for the load applied. There is a big difference between loafing down a flat road, not heavily loaded, at 40 MPH and climbing a hill, two- up, at the same speed and in the same gear.
Brian
Brian, I am hanging my head in disgrace. I am VERY sorry to everyone on the forum for trying to mislead you into thinking you should be shifting into 6th a 35 mph. I hope you all will forgive me for suggesting that 35 mph was acceptable, when in fact it could be harming your engine over the long run. I hereby submit to the fact that if we all can learn a valuable lesson here and move that down to 34 mph our gas mileage will likely skyrocket and we may be able to extend our valve adjustment check out another 10,000 miles or so.
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-snip- Changed fluids at 500 mph. -snip-
:yikes:
;)
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Quote from: RideBellChain on Today at 12:01:38 am
-snip- Changed fluids at 500 mph. -snip-
:yikes: :yikes:
;)
Now THAT is what I call a quick oil change...
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Changed fluids at 500 mph.
Using the venturi effect, perhaps? In order to change the oil at that speed it would have to be an 08. Other colors can't go that fast.
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Brian, I am hanging my head in disgrace. I am VERY sorry to everyone on the forum for trying to mislead you into thinking you should be shifting into 6th a 35 mph. I hope you all will forgive me for suggesting that 35 mph was acceptable, when in fact it could be harming your engine over the long run. I hereby submit to the fact that if we all can learn a valuable lesson here and move that down to 34 mph our gas mileage will likely skyrocket and we may be able to extend our valve adjustment check out another 10,000 miles or so.
@jscc Anvlievble ignoranze and folizhness.
jjsC6: you are a lucky guy. Apparently I barely qualify for a$$hole.
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Well for those of you that may not realize, here's what your owners manual said about it. Check out page 8 of "How to Ride the Motorcycle"
http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN (http://www.kawasaki-techinfo.net/showOM.php?view_lang=EN&spec=US&book_no=99987-1608&lang_code=EN)
Not what mine says.
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Not what mine says.
LOL!!!
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No, the manual shows 34 MPH. But that isn't much better (it is almost insane)
I believe Steve D was referring to the down shifting section which says 19mph for 6th-> 5th, thus
all is well at 20 mph in 6th (according to Mam Kaw ::)).
...and page 144 is the 8th page of the "How to Ride the Motorcycle" section. :)
thank you Marty.
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Not what mine says.
Hey, I like that kind of owners manual. It's like having it's own "find and replace" function.
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Hey, I like that kind of owners manual. It's like having it's own "find and replace" function.
I went to my manual and read the "instructions" so I decided to give it a try. 34 mph is definitely too slow for 6th, somewhere around 1700 rpm, and for my senses she doesn't feel very comfortable below 2000 rpm. Sounds like a small difference, but the vibrations, sound and response of the engine really seem to clear up by 2000 rpm (about 45 mph).
In 4th or lower is alright to go under that number because the gear ratio makes it easier for the engine to pull, though.
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Using the venturi effect, perhaps? In order to change the oil at that speed it would have to be an 08. Other colors can't go that fast.
At the speed of sound! DOH! :)