Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: C14-Pilot on March 22, 2012, 05:37:01 PM
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Guys,
Is this normal?
It seems as though my font brake pads are dragging on my rotors as if
they are NOT completely releasing when I left off the brakes.
I put the bike on the center stand put a floor jack under the bike to raise
the front wheel of the ground. I can spin the front wheel but makes kind of
a buzzing noise as the rotors spin through the pads.
I have about 8k on these brake pads and they still look good.
Any thoughts?
thanks,
C14-Pilot
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If you can spin the wheel at least one revolution by hand you are probably ok. The pads are not going to fully retract away from the rotors by themselves unless the rotor is warped. Be thankful for that.
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Mine do the same. Actually, after sitting for a couple of months (no comments from the Floriduh crowd) the pads were stuck to the rotors and left a black mark. Gonna get it back on the road before making up my mind if this is a problem.
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Go ahead and use some simple green or purple power, spray it on brakes/rotors 50/50 mix, and use a paint brush to get off the grubby areas, once you have scrubbed them, use hose pipe to wash it all off, this should clear up the issue you have.
It's a build up of road dust/crap around your pads/rotors....
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I have posted with the same question. Mine drag intermittently all the time. I am convinced that this is what caused me to warp my rotors. With the front wheel in the air, I can 'spin' the front wheel about one quarter of a turn. I can hear them while I am riding. I have flushed the fluid (this helped for a while), but now they are doing it again. I ride my bike year round, so this isn't from sitting.
I have taken it to the dealer twice, and both times they don't notice or hear anything. I want to take the calipers apart, but I'm afraid if I do that, I will get blamed if there turns out to be something.
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Just thinking, is there some sort of 'standard' or rule of thumb about how freely the front wheel should spin when suspended? I'm pretty sure that 1/4 revolution is a bit shy. Just asking....
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I have posted with the same question. Mine drag intermittently all the time. I am convinced that this is what caused me to warp my rotors. With the front wheel in the air, I can 'spin' the front wheel about one quarter of a turn. I can hear them while I am riding. I have flushed the fluid (this helped for a while), but now they are doing it again. I ride my bike year round, so this isn't from sitting.
I have taken it to the dealer twice, and both times they don't notice or hear anything. I want to take the calipers apart, but I'm afraid if I do that, I will get blamed if there turns out to be something.
I have posted this in the past and I hope it helps....
My stock Kawasaki brake lever preloaded the brake master cylinder slightly to the point that the pads always dragged and my front rotors warped. I purchased a set of Galfer roters and they warped as well after only 2000 miles actually!! Only when I purchased a set of aftermaket levers did I notice that when the stock lever was taken off I noticed that the Piston was getting depressed. To reinstall the stock lever I actually had to press the piston in a bit just to get the lever pivot bolt to drop in place and this is not right!! Now that I have drilled the hole in the lever slightly deeper so there is no pressure on the piston after installation I have absolutly ZERO drag on my rotors and I had a lot of drag ever since I bought the bike new. So go for a ride, get the brakes warm, push the bike around and feel the brakes drag, now remove the front brake lever and see if they still drag....mine stopped.
Let us know how you make out.
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Steve, I seem to remember your reply to this a while back. I think I'll give that a try. Seems easy enough to try. IF that is related to the problem, shouldn't Kawasaki have a fix? I get that me dropping a few bucks for a lever might be cheaper and easier than wrestling with a dealer. BUT it does seem like that would be a design flaw...
I have posted this in the past and I hope it helps....
My stock Kawasaki brake lever preloaded the brake master cylinder slightly to the point that the pads always dragged and my front rotors warped. I purchased a set of Galfer roters and they warped as well after only 2000 miles actually!! Only when I purchased a set of aftermaket levers did I notice that when the stock lever was taken off I noticed that the Piston was getting depressed. To reinstall the stock lever I actually had to press the piston in a bit just to get the lever pivot bolt to drop in place and this is not right!! Now that I have drilled the hole in the lever slightly deeper so there is no pressure on the piston after installation I have absolutly ZERO drag on my rotors and I had a lot of drag ever since I bought the bike new. So go for a ride, get the brakes warm, push the bike around and feel the brakes drag, now remove the front brake lever and see if they still drag....mine stopped.
Let us know how you make out.
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You can add that one to the list... It's still a very very good bike but there are still a few things that can be tweaked.
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Steve, I seem to remember your reply to this a while back. I think I'll give that a try. Seems easy enough to try. IF that is related to the problem, shouldn't Kawasaki have a fix? I get that me dropping a few bucks for a lever might be cheaper and easier than wrestling with a dealer. BUT it does seem like that would be a design flaw...
Yes I would agree that it would be a design flaw, but I don't believe that all stock levers or piston lengths are the same. There has to be some quality control issues with either of these 2 parts because there is a bunch of C-14's that the brakes don't drag and don't warp rotors, mine just happened to be a bad one.
You mention buying a new lever to try but remember the problem may lie in the length of the piston that fits into the lever is too long, so another lever would do the same thing!
Good Luck.
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That's a good tip. I'm going to check mine.
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So go for a ride, get the brakes warm, push the bike around and feel the brakes drag, now remove the front brake lever and see if they still drag....mine stopped.
Let us know how you make out.
Good stuff. Just checked mine for the heck of it using your test. Mine were good but your test is well worth checking and a good starting point for diagnosing drag issues...
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Ok, you drag queens. I checked mine and I don't appear to have any clearance between the lever assembly and the piston. I'm going to have to loosen it up a bit to see if the piston moves when the lever is moved away.... I'll let you know.
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Leave your brakes alone. The stock brakes on this bike are excellent. Pads should drag. Don't sand or scrub the rotors to remove any pad residue. Don't apply any substance to the rotors but high grade acetone. Even then....why? Don't try to make any adjustments to the master piston assy. The only thing that you should do is bleed them once in a great while (say every 6 K miles).
Do a search on this subject and you'll find all you need.
Fretka
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Leave your brakes alone. The stock brakes on this bike are excellent. Pads should drag. Don't sand or scrub the rotors to remove any pad residue. Don't apply any substance to the rotors but high grade acetone. Even then....why? Don't try to make any adjustments to the master piston assy. The only thing that you should do is bleed them once in a great while (say every 6 K miles).
Do a search on this subject and you'll find all you need.
Fretka
Pads should drag to the point of overheating rotors hey?? Maybe your brakes are perfect, mine were not and other people here may have problems as well. I have owned my fair share of motorcycles in the past and along with the other 2 bikes sitting beside the Concours in my garage right now NONE of them had the very noticeable front brake drag my C-14 had. Engineering tolerances are not the same on every bike and coming from someone that has turbo and engine building experience you should understand this.
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Don't sand or scrub the rotors
Fretka
Took mine out this week for 2nd time this winter and I had a light squeal from the front. Gave rotors a light sanding with 240 grit and it's gone. Not much just enough to show the high spots. And there were a lot of high spots, more than 15k should have. I will be doing the test for sure
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Pads should drag to the point of overheating rotors hey?? Maybe your brakes are perfect, mine were not and other people here may have problems as well. I have owned my fair share of motorcycles in the past and along with the other 2 bikes sitting beside the Concours in my garage right now NONE of them had the very noticeable front brake drag my C-14 had. Engineering tolerances are not the same on every bike and coming from someone that has turbo and engine building experience you should understand this.
Yes, I do know that, but for every one person that has a real brake issue the other 99 just get upset and worried that theirs are also bad and then you get a raft of dubious drag measuring schemes that are at best half-baked and at worst, dangerous. Use a little common sense, understand how brakes operate, and then be mindful of the affect of what you post on these pages.
Fretka
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At the risk of repeating myself....
When someone checks brake drag they usually lift the front wheel off the ground, spin the wheel and listen and or watch to see how far the wheel spins, right?
Chances are that this person pulled into their garage the previous ride using their front brake to stop the bike, right?
So tell me, what's wrong with this scenario? Why will any tests that this person does be invalid?
Think and then you tell me. (This is not an attempt to bolster ego or show-off. So please lets treat this conversation with respect).
Fretka
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I'd like to know...
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Had I known that there was going to be a quiz today I would have studied.
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Want to venture a guess? I'm thinking the pads will stick somewhat to the rotor after coming to a stop and give a false indication of stickiness.
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At the risk of repeating myself....
When someone checks brake drag they usually lift the front wheel off the ground, spin the wheel and listen and or watch to see how far the wheel spins, right?
Chances are that this person pulled into their garage the previous ride using their front brake to stop the bike, right?
So tell me, what's wrong with this scenario? Why will any tests that this person does be invalid?
Think and then you tell me. (This is not an attempt to bolster ego or show-off. So please lets treat this conversation with respect).
Fretka
Everything is nice and hot from the ride... should be nice and cool.
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Galfer states that you should sand your rotors every pad change for their pads, to decontaminate them. I never have over a lot of bikes and years, but it makes sense to me when I think about it: old school surfacing is not easy on these, being floaters. I will do it real soon. If it works or not, I wont be able to tell, but as I said: I like the idea. Your ideas may differ.
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The flexing of the forks/axle/caliper mounts as well as any run-out present in the rotors themselves causes the pads to retract. This action occurs immediately while riding so we have much more clearance of pad to rotor.
Not the case as we pull up to a stop, and take our measurements. The only pad retraction influence is from the hysteresis or springiness of the piston seals which is very minor.
If you want to measure pad drag, buy a cheap infrared temperature gun and check rotor temps at various times. Alternatively, stop your bike without using your front (or back if linked) brake, then lift and spin the wheel.
Any residue left on the rotors from the application of cleaning agents will affect the friction performance of your brakes. If you feel you need to clean them, soapy water with a good rinse is fine. Or, for deep cleaning to remove old pad deposits use a high grade acetone as that will leave the least residue.
Hand sanding a rotor is pointless, you will never remove any old pad residue that way. The only way to efficiently smooth/clean a rotor is with a specialized rotor hone or flat hone.
If your rotors are turning blue from heat, then yes, you should be concerned, but I suspect that condition is very rare for the folks posting on this board.
Take it or leave it, it's free advice. :)
Fretka
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I'll ask again...
Just thinking, is there some sort of 'standard' or rule of thumb about how freely the front wheel should spin when suspended? I'm pretty sure that 1/4 revolution is a bit shy. Just asking....
I have had many bikes, and NEVER had one drag like this. I can only spin it about a quater turn. I am convinced that the drag combined with the COLD rain/snow that we rode in is what led to the warpage.
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I'll ask again...
I have had many bikes, and NEVER had one drag like this. I can only spin it about a quater turn. I am convinced that the drag combined with the COLD rain/snow that we rode in is what led to the warpage.
quarter turn certainly don't look good to me.
i had some brake juddering issue with the front brake last week, it was so bad that i thought the front wheel bearings was on it's way out.
cleaned up the brake discs with soap and a scotchbrite pad, instantly solved the problem.
couple of other things that you might try, assuming the discs aren't actually warped:
- check for pressure build-up at the caliper end. clear hose on the bleed valve, loosen valve without pressing the brake lever and see if brake fluid fills up the hose like the brakes are pressurized. if yes, then open up the brake fluid container, work the brakes a bit and open the bleed valve again to check. could be brake lever issue (as stated in some earlier posts) or maybe blocked up master cylinder fluid-return hole, or you changed new pads + pushed in caliper pistons without opening fluid reservoir.
- pump the caliper pistons out a bit, let it clamp on old brake pads or a piece of metal. clean up the piston with soap and an old toothbrush. dry it off and make sure the pistons go in and out smoothly. again, make sure the brake fluid reservoir's cap is off or at least loosened till you're done with both sides.