Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Kwikasfuki on March 17, 2012, 10:41:40 AM
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Looks like my radiator is on its last legs as it has a few leaks. I'm going to get the core replaced which is cheaper than buying a complete unit. When I took it off this morning, I noticed the following incision at the rear of the radiator (and I assume this is where one of the leaks is from). The only item that could leave such a mark is the cooling fan. I've had a look at the cooling fan and it seems fine when rotated. Should I change them as a precaution as well?
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/20120317_162316.jpg)
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:o
Are you running the stock plastic fan or did you change it out and go with one of the metal ones?
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It certainly looks like an arced fan blade mark to me. But I don't understand how that could happen, unless something were bent/moved and reduced the clearances.
I would be greatly concerned before just slapping a replacement radiator on there. But just replacing the fan wouldn't not necessarily correct the root problem. Looks like you will have a lot of measuring to do :(
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Look for a cracked blade. We have this happen at work on a regular basis. Its hard to diagnose, though, as few are willing to stick their hand anywhere near a fan at full speed..go figure. The shape and angle of the fan blades change when its at full speed. A cracked blade may flex enough to hit the rad. Or, the shop turned the engine on before the fan/radiator assembly was properly mounted.
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:o
Are you running the stock plastic fan or did you change it out and go with one of the metal ones?
Stock fans.
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Look for a cracked blade. We have this happen at work on a regular basis. The shape and angle of the fan blades change when its at full speed. A cracked blade may flex enough to hit the rad.
Good possible diagnosis!
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That looks like a fan blade swept a piece of debris (FOD) through part of its arc. Notice how the arc continues at about the same depth until it hits the vane? It looks to me like the vane jammed the debris hard against the fan blade and got flipped out. I would look for a ding or impression on the tip of a fan blade and around the inside of the shroud that mounted on that side of the radiator.
One of the things always in the back of my head is that the fans act like scoops that try to snatch anything dropped behind the front fairing. It could be a piece of hardware as it seems that things fall into that black hole just in front of the fuel tank but never hit the ground; those fan shrouds make a great place to catch such things on their way down. It is the main reason I always try, and so far have been lucky at, finding whatever was dropped there to begin with. Of course if it is a piece of debris picked up while riding you would never know it was there until coolant was on the ground under the bike.
Brian
Looks like my radiator is on its last legs as it has a few leaks. I'm going to get the core replaced which is cheaper than buying a complete unit. When I took it off this morning, I noticed the following incision at the rear of the radiator (and I assume this is where one of the leaks is from). The only item that could leave such a mark is the cooling fan. I've had a look at the cooling fan and it seems fine when rotated. Should I change them as a precaution as well?
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/20120317_162316.jpg)
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So will the truly paranoid now add a radiator guard to the backside of their radiators?
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Beats me but I could see some kind of screen back there....
Brian
So will the truly paranoid now add a radiator guard to the backside of their radiators?
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That is a bummer Bro, am thinking of changing the plastic fan with a metal one myself, but now am a little concerned if i make a small mistake and end up with this problem myself,,, let us know if you find the root cause of this, am no mechanic, but am thinking maybe the mechanism that holds the blade somehow is giving and if you are taking off in a hurry makes the blade stick out just enough to start rubbing and after a while it made a mess. just my thoughts..
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Stock fans.... still under warranty?
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Possibly. Depends on when/what you bought and if you are under an extended warranty. The rad would be included as well. Never heard of a fan going into the rad on these bikes. First time for everything though.
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So will the truly paranoid now add a radiator guard to the backside of their radiators?
Good idea! :thumbs: Now who's after me today?
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Looked at why those marks might have been made. Brian suggested that something might have got caught between the fans and radiator. That is highly possible., however the fans are rigid and not broken. Also there are no marks on the fans or assembly to indicate something had been caught.
I placed the fan on the radiator to see how much clearance there is. Not much. The slightest pressure on the fan and it was touching the radiator. We are talking probably a couple of mm. I think I'll add some additional washers to get more clearance when reinstalling the fans.
(Now that I think about it, sometimes I could hear a noise like the fan motor was going. I'm wondering if it was the fan touching the radiator very slightly)
EDIT: I think if you put another guard at the back you're going to run into clearance and heating issues. It's probably best to increase the clearance from the fan to the radiator by adding some washers
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EDIT: I think if you put another guard at the back you're going to run into clearance and heating issues. It's probably best to increase the clearance from the fan to the radiator by adding some washers
I rather think that was in jest....about the guard. There shouldn't be anything required in the fan setup, by way of spacers, to these fans. They've worked hundreds of thousands of miles in many bikes without failure of the sort you describe. If something is affecting the clearance then the bearings or bushings are going in the fan itself causing the clearance to widen. If you suspect the fan(s) then you should replace that assembly, assuming you aren't going the warranty route. You may affect the cooling aspect by widening the space between the rad and fan assembly...ware the law of unintended consequences.
I'm with Brian on this one....I think it was debris and not the fan itself.
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Are there aftermarket fans I can purchase?
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You can can see how much clearance there is here
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/20120318_133117.jpg)
Also, it's the fan housing that is making contact. Either that or something caught in it.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/gnusblat/1400%20GTR/20120318_133143.jpg)
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You can can see how much clearance there is here
Also, it's the fan housing that is making contact. Either that or something caught in it.
Yep, it looks like rubbing from the housing. Has your bike ever been in an accident or had any work done around that area?
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Yep, it looks like rubbing from the housing. Has your bike ever been in an accident or had any work done around that area?
Nope, not that I recall
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Does the housing move once the fan is spinning?
However, this one guy I know wanted to mention how easy it is to bend these fins when assembling something. Just a slight brushing smashes things.
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Are there aftermarket fans I can purchase?
There are after market metal fans....muzzy
http://muzzys.com/fans.html (http://muzzys.com/fans.html)
But just the blades, though
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Did you check for a missing radiator mounting bolt, particularly the center one? If it was missing the radator could have been moving and hitting the fan housing. In other words your $hit hit the fan.
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The radiator has been repaired (£50 pounds total cost). I had a look at a new model and the fans were set further back from the radiator than on my bike. I added some spacers to raise the fans and so far everything seems to be fine.
No radiator bolts were missing and I'm stumped to how the damage happened. The fans don't wobble at high speeds, and both fans had made a marking on the radiator. The left fan caused the leak and the right had scorched the radiator. I could understand something getting stuck in one fan, but both?
Anyway, its fixed now. Thanks for all the advice.
Cheers
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The radiator has been repaired (£50 pounds total cost). I had a look at a new model and the fans were set further back from the radiator than on my bike. I added some spacers to raise the fans and so far everything seems to be fine.
No radiator bolts were missing and I'm stumped to how the damage happened. The fans don't wobble at high speeds, and both fans had made a marking on the radiator. The left fan caused the leak and the right had scorched the radiator. I could understand something getting stuck in one fan, but both?
Anyway, its fixed now. Thanks for all the advice.
$80... hmm, that is not as bad as I would have expected, and certainly beats having to buy a new one. It does sound like quite the mystery. Thanks for sharing the results of the story. Now get out there and get RIDING (on the wrong side of the road, even!!!! ;) )