Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Glennn on March 12, 2012, 05:48:49 PM
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Morning All,
Well this last weekend I went on a three day 1,500km riding trip covering mostly back country roads with a day and a half in spent in the mountains. The bike went great and I was amazed at how well she performed through the twisties. Was able to ride really hard and to such an extent the rear tyre (stock) started to build up those little balls of rubber near the edge. I also spent a lot of time braking very hard into corners which put a lot of my weight forward onto my arms.
And now there is a problem.
Today my right hand is as weak as a newborn’s, and the outer two fingers on my left hand are still numb and tingly 24 hours later – I suspect I have bruised a nerve. My left shoulder is in quite a bit of pain and last night couldn’t lift my arm above my shoulder although today it is a bit better.
I’m 5’8” with a Corbin seat so do now find myself leaning down on my hands quite a bit so I am thinking about some risers. But after all the fun I had in the twisties I am worried they might change the sport attitude/handling of the bike a little. Although I'm also worried about being ni this much discomfort again...
Can anyone who has risers, and likes to give their bike a good thrash every once and a while, comment on the handling of the bike pre and post risers?
Thanks in advance.
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Herniated disc, most likely C5/C6, causing a pinched nerve. You've got the classic symptoms. I had the same thing except on the right side only. You need to see a doctor and get at minimum an x-ray but more than likely an MRI to confirm. Weakness is not a good sign. You need to see the doctor as soon as possible.
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Jimmy,
Dont you think he would have had pain in his arms before he rode this weekend if it was an aggrevated C5-C6 disc?
Maybe the OP just needs to ride more, or do some strengthening exercises for riding? I know the first few long rides of the season have me a lttle achey until i get back in the swing again.. Try strengthening your stomach muscles to help hold your core...
And to answer your original question... I think if you put too high of a riser on it will change your attitude on the bike....but their are alot of guys on here with risers that im sure can put the bike thru its paces.. Good luck finding what works for you
JJ
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Thanks guys.
The weak hand and tingly fingers is definitly a post ride sympton, was fine before I left. My right hand has gotten tired before after a longish ride on the GTR, but this weekend was the longest with consequtive days. I do have reasonably good upper body strength, but agree with JJ there is probably some ride conditioning I could work on.
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Thanks guys.
The weak hand and tingly fingers is definitly a post ride sympton, was fine before I left. My right hand has gotten tired before after a longish ride on the GTR, but this weekend was the longest with consequtive days. I do have reasonably good upper body strength, but agree with JJ there is probably some ride conditioning I could work on.
From one Glenn to another, I have the same problem, after two days in the Arkansas Ozark mountains (several trips) I get the same tingly fingers, numbness and pain in both wrist. I already have bad wrist due to 30+ years of construction work but nothing affects them like hard riding. I am going to try some risers and see if I can get some of the weight off my wrist. I do know hard braking into the curves does add a lot of stress to the wrist and shoulders. I think there will be a short adjustment period but no real change in handling. good luck.
Glynn
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Maybe a little- I found my C-14 got a little pompous and rude after putting risers on it but that attitude seems to have passed.... Sorry, couldn't resist :-)
Risers did not seem to badly change the handling on my bike but they do result in a new seating position, back and leg bend angles. Same thing with changing the peg height, the saddle height, width and forward / rearward placement. Unfortunately all of these things fit into the general sitting position and affect other aspects you probably will not have seen coming. The good news is that so many people use risers on a C-14 (GTR) that you might be able to buy a set used, and you can always sell a set if you find they do not suit you.
It also sounds like you might have too much pressure on the inside of your hands. Several people have tinkered around with the handlebar angle of these bikes and some have had good success. You can do a search for Phil's wedges on this forum and probably find some info. that might be useful. Also Heli Bars makes a fully adjustable set of bars for this bike- they are expensive but of very high quality and again, at least some folks have reported very positive things about them.
Best of luck.
Brian
Morning All,
Well this last weekend I went on a three day 1,500km riding trip covering mostly back country roads with a day and a half in spent in the mountains. The bike went great and I was amazed at how well she performed through the twisties. Was able to ride really hard and to such an extent the rear tyre (stock) started to build up those little balls of rubber near the edge. I also spent a lot of time braking very hard into corners which put a lot of my weight forward onto my arms.
And now there is a problem.
Today my right hand is as weak as a newborn’s, and the outer two fingers on my left hand are still numb and tingly 24 hours later – I suspect I have bruised a nerve. My left shoulder is in quite a bit of pain and last night couldn’t lift my arm above my shoulder although today it is a bit better.
I’m 5’8” with a Corbin seat so do now find myself leaning down on my hands quite a bit so I am thinking about some risers. But after all the fun I had in the twisties I am worried they might change the sport attitude/handling of the bike a little. Although I'm also worried about being ni this much discomfort again...
Can anyone who has risers, and likes to give their bike a good thrash every once and a while, comment on the handling of the bike pre and post risers?
Thanks in advance.
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I've had virtually the same symptoms as the OP and it happened gradually over a long ride. Hurt so bad raising my arms to get my helmet off that I nearly cried. It was agony riding home. Had the tingling as well. It ain't conditioning. The OP needs to see a doctor to at least assess what's going on. I've been there, done that, and have the t-shirt. It ain't fun and it is classic symptoms of a pinched nerve in the C5/C6 area. I have had my issue since last August and luckily for me it seems to be subsiding nearly 8 months later.
I had an appt today with the doc and we discussed surgery. Based on what he saw on the MRI he wanted me on the table now but based on the symptoms subsiding he wants to wait a bit.
Last saturday was the first decent ride I had since last August. 356 miles on the back roads of southern Va. Two months ago I couldn't do 25 miles. I'm lucky so far but the op needs to get this checked out as it ain't nothing to make light of or say that it's a conditioning issue. It's a medical issue with the spine.. Weakness, tingling, pain...it all adds up to something going on in the spinal area. Don't kid yourselves. And unless you've had this, you don't know.
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Thanks for the info, Jim. I appreciate you spelling it all out.
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Well this last weekend I went on a three day 1,500km riding trip covering mostly back country roads with a day and a half in spent in the mountains. Was able to ride really hard [...]. I also spent a lot of time braking very hard into corners which put a lot of my weight forward onto my arms.
And now there is a problem. Today my right hand is as weak as a newborn’s, and the outer two fingers on my left hand are still numb and tingly 24 hours later – I suspect I have bruised a nerve. My left shoulder is in quite a bit of pain and last night couldn’t lift my arm above my shoulder although today it is a bit better.
It is quite likely you have caused a bit of strain and maybe pinched a nerve or two or have swelling that is putting pressure on a nerve. It will likely heal, given time and rest. Most likely, you "overdid" it with too much of a new activity and are paying for it now. I would recommend ibuprofen and avoid riding for quite a while.... as bummer as that sounds :(
Slight differences can make a big difference under the right circumstances.
Can anyone who has risers, and likes to give their bike a good thrash every once and a while, comment on the handling of the bike pre and post risers?
Risers will not affect the handling of the bike in ANY way. Although it can affect nor normal weight distribution and position, which can affect YOUR handling of the bike. Of course, you have the option of just bending over more again if necessary to compensate. So it will adjust you, not the bike. This could be good or bad, depending.
I have lots of problems with FMS/RSI/CTS AND I have short arms. The Concours is unrideable for me, without risers. But even those didn't totally fix the problem. It was Phil's Wedges combined with risers that was the magic for me. I can still have problems, but nothing like without those modifications. Each person is different, though.
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Try Phil's apehangers. Less expensive than the Heli's. I only rode a short time last year with them but am impressed. I also suffered from numbness, etc. Pretty well gone now.
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Can anyone who has risers, and likes to give their bike a good thrash every once and a while, comment on the handling of the bike pre and post risers?
Thanks in advance.
I have both two inch risers and Phil's bar extenders installed. There is no degradation in handling or in my ability to ride safely at high speed through any type of terrain. I can probably maintain my abilities to a greater degree with this setup over stock because I'm comfortable and nothing hurts. I bought my bike in Kansas, USA and rode it two thousand miles to my home in Oregon. That trip was miserable because of he horrible strain caused by having weight on my arms plus a very aching back. The stock windshield only amplified my misery. With Cee Bailey's tallest windshield and comfortable placement of the handlebars I can ride it all day with no complaints.
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I have a set of Murph's risers and have not noticed any lack of handling since putting them on. I like to ride in a spirited fashion when I get into the twisty roads and I think Tech Spec tank grips make a huge difference in keeping weight off of my wrists/arms.
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Morning All,
Well this last weekend I went on a three day 1,500km riding trip covering mostly back country roads with a day and a half in spent in the mountains. The bike went great and I was amazed at how well she performed through the twisties. Was able to ride really hard and to such an extent the rear tyre (stock) started to build up those little balls of rubber near the edge. I also spent a lot of time braking very hard into corners which put a lot of my weight forward onto my arms.
And now there is a problem.
Today my right hand is as weak as a newborn’s, and the outer two fingers on my left hand are still numb and tingly 24 hours later – I suspect I have bruised a nerve. My left shoulder is in quite a bit of pain and last night couldn’t lift my arm above my shoulder although today it is a bit better.
I’m 5’8” with a Corbin seat so do now find myself leaning down on my hands quite a bit so I am thinking about some risers. But after all the fun I had in the twisties I am worried they might change the sport attitude/handling of the bike a little. Although I'm also worried about being ni this much discomfort again...
Can anyone who has risers, and likes to give their bike a good thrash every once and a while, comment on the handling of the bike pre and post risers?
Thanks in advance.
Glennn
I'd take Jim's advice if I were you. Get in to see the doc ASAP. If it's nothing to worry about at least you find out.
I know nothing of disc issues but I do know something about the numbness in your fingers. If you have numbness in your pinky finger and (as strange as it sounds) the outer half of your ring finger, it's the ulnar nerve.
(http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/hand/hand_guyon_canal/hand_guyon_canal_anat01.jpg) (http://www.hughston.com/hha/b_15_3_2a.jpg)
The median nerve is the never that folks with carpal tunnel syndrome have issues with.
(http://www.hughston.com/hha/b_15_3_2b.jpg)
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Me, I must have long arms because if anything, I would like lower bars. That said, I find the bar position (for me) to be a good compromise between comfort and handling. The seating position is bolt upright, yet I can still manage to get my body in a reasonably good position in a heavy lean.
Unlike my 1200RT. That thing was just awkward in a heavy lean.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice.
After thinking about Jim's comments a bit I made an appointment to see the doc next week (erliest I could get in) so we'll see how that goes.
I like what I am reading about people's experience with risers and the handling of the bike (keep em coming if you got em) so will be looking at some risers and maybe wedges too in my near future.
Thanks again.
Glenn
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After thinking about Jim's comments a bit I made an appointment to see the doc next week (erliest I could get in) so we'll see how that goes.
Just don't be surprised if it is not terribly productive. I can't tell you how many doctors I went through before eventually just giving up and accepting it. After a while, you learn your limitations and adjust (plus try to adjust your environment some). Hopefully you will have a much better experience.
I like what I am reading about people's experience with risers and the handling of the bike (keep em coming if you got em) so will be looking at some risers and maybe wedges too in my near future.
Be prepared for a bit of experimentation; but I am confident that some combination of stuff will help.
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I'm going to find out. Just ordered a set of Murph's risers.
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Thought I would provide a follow-up to this thread.
Went to the Doc today and explained out my symptons. While she agreed they could be signs of a compressed disc she has diagnosed it as nerve pressure damage in the hands from leaning on the bars heavily on that trip - similar to the images attached in this thread of pushbike riders.
Further supporting that I was riding the GTR the other day and consiously thought about my hand position on the handlebars.
I found that when I am cornering quick and using the brake, my index and/or middle finger covers the brake twisting my hand sightly inwards putting pressure on the area between thumb and index finger - this is likely the cause of the weakness in my right hand from nerve pressure damage.
Because of how I use my right hand in fast cornering/hard braking, my left hand takes slightly more weight and it twists outwards putting pressure along the outside edge of my hand - this is the likely cause of the tingling/numbness in my ring and little fingers from nerve pressure damage, and the fatigue pain I experience in my left shoulder.
The doc says that nerve damage will re-generate at a rate of 1mm per day (and take Sundays off ::)) and says it could be like this for quite a few weeks more. She is, however, confident I haven't done any permenant damage due to the strength in my right hand has mostly returned, and the tingling/numbness in my left has been slowly getting better.
I've ordered a set of risers and wedges from Murphs, as well as a new Cee Baily's screen so I'll see what they do for me.
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What Jim and Conrad said. Them nerves work some kinda voodoo, after my back surgery 6 months ago I had this pain on the front outside edge of my big toe and on the top of my foot. Socks were a no go, blanket was a no go. Water was required, but damn did it hurt. Get checked. Once ya get fixed up look into some LSL bars, Murphs sells em, they are easily positioned to fit your riding style and look nice too.
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Glennn,
There's a company that sells some specialized MC gloves that have a unique set of pads that are sposed to help eliminate those pressure points in your hands. I can't remember the name of them though.
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Me, I must have long arms because if anything, I would like lower bars. That said, I find the bar position (for me) to be a good compromise between comfort and handling. The seating position is bolt upright, yet I can still manage to get my body in a reasonably good position in a heavy lean.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^That. Any lower for better aggressive handling while railing it and it'll be just as uncomfortable as my prior sport bikes on trips. Any higher and I compromise handling per the laws of simple physics, of course not an option for me.
If I had a medical condition or couldn't comfortably ride on trips I would raise them, that would be priority for me on this type bike anyway. But not this high:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/17/!BwEQBNwEWk~$(KGrHqMOKkEEwQOfWmnGBMHR(WWDhg~~_35.JPG)
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To the OP, I have Murph's risers (1 3/8" I believe), and I ride the **** out of my bike when I ride in the local area. I usually ride with guys on sport bikes, and I've yet to see anyone show up on a heavier bike than mine lol. I probably ride the Connie harder than one should on a regular basis, but it's damn hard to ride it slow if you ask me. I don't find that the risers impact my ability to ride aggressively at all. I can't shift my weight like I can on the Ninja I just bought, but I can do what I need to do in order to control the big bike. The Concours is meant to be more comfortable than a sport bike, so there's already a lot of compromise in the riding position. Risers won't change things too much. I'll take the added comfort of risers over any minimal gain in performance I would get from stock grip height.
As for the extra hand pressure you experience during aggressive riding and braking hard into corners, like some others have suggested, try using your core to suppport more of your weight. You don't want to put all of your upper body weight on your hands as that will fatigue you very quickly. It takes some practice, but you can figure out in a few rides. You should be holding the grips with just enough pressure to control the bike. Avoid resting on your hands while riding. My father experienced some of the same soreness when he transitioned from a Gold Wing to the C14, but after putting more miles on the bike, he's figured out how to take a lot of the pressure off his hands. Another thing you can do is lower the windshield. This will allow more air to hit your chest and kind of hold you up, if that makes sense. When you go into corners, try applying pressure to the hand that's inside of the corner you're taking...right turn, pressure on right grip...left turn, pressure on left grip. This allow the outside hand and forearm to relax a bit. Obviously, you don't want to let go of the opposite grip, but you shouldn't be grabbing the outside grip with the same amount of pressure as the inside grip. I've put that method to the test, and helps reduce arm-pump significantly.
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Because of how I use my right hand in fast cornering/hard braking, my left hand takes slightly more weight and it twists outwards putting pressure along the outside edge of my hand - this is the likely cause of the tingling/numbness in my ring and little fingers from nerve pressure damage, and the fatigue pain I experience in my left shoulder.
Glennn, I had a similar problem with pressure along the outside of my hand when I first bought my C14, although not to the point of numbness in my shoulder - although I did get that years ago on my R1. My simple solution was to put tennis grip tape on the inside of my handlebars which took all of the pressure off my hands. Since doing this last June, I haven't had any pain except for my sore butt - but that's a diff issue :o Check out my old thread here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1451.msg14900#msg14900 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1451.msg14900#msg14900)
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i dont understand your question here. your almost a cripple from the bike as it is and your afraid the bike wont handle as well with risers on it? let me ask your this , how will the bike handle when you cant feel your hands and your shoulder is screaming in pain so much you cant ride the bike . im betting its handling will suffer quite a bit then . get the risers. im 6ft and i have 2 inch risers and phils wedges from murphs kits. Fixed the problem and you will get use to the new attitude.
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I installed Murph's risers last week, it certainly does take some of the weight/pressure off my wrist and shoulders, should have done it sooner.
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i dont understand your question here. your almost a cripple from the bike as it is and your afraid the bike wont handle as well with risers on it?
If feedback for the risers were they completely change the attitude of the bike, turning it from what I bought it for which was Sport Tourer into a Tourer then the outcome would have been the same - I would have sold the bike.
As it is, thanks to the responses in this thread, I have some risers and wedges in transit from Murph's as I type. If I have another instance of the same symptoms post riser/wedges install then I will be selling the bike.
Maybe it's a condition on the bike that can be fixed for others, or maybe I have some physiological issues that can't be fixed, but there's only so much money I will throw after it and I know Cruisers will have me back with open arms.
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Hey glenn, you'll spend and lose more money selling the bike than you would fixing the problem. With my 2 inch risers and wedges i have no problem scraping footpeg feelers.
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I dunno guys ,but I always try hard to keep a loose grip with hands arms bent and utilize my lower body. When I forget it hurts usually hands first and when I execute correctly I feel great-this may be oversimplifying-but I have had a crappy back which led to a C4-C5 fusion.
Mike
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you'll spend and lose more money selling the bike than you would fixing the problem.
Not as much as I could spend on farkles only to lose it all if forced to sell the bike if the condition doesn't improve.
:deadhorse:
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glenn , risers are only 100 bucks if that doeasnt work then you have the 700 dollar option, i cant remember the name of them on murphs kits website. you will lose alot more than that selling it and you will lose the best sport tourer out there.
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No, I don't think they change the bike a bit in regards to drivability. I put Murphs' risers on, rode a couple hundred miles last weekend, all I had was a bit of a stiff neck and upper back, but that's because I am just getting used to the bike and position, and I switched from my 1/2 helmet on the Harley to a full-face job on this bike. Even a slight lean-forward position is going to put a different strain on neck and back muscles, until I get used to it. No numbness or tingling, etc. I have since ordered the wedges, they should be in perhaps as early as tomorrow. Risers helped a lot, for sure. Wedges supposedly raise the bar ends upwards about 1 inch, that'll help a lot too.
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all I had was a bit of a stiff neck and upper back, but that's because I am just getting used to the bike and position, [...]. Even a slight lean-forward position is going to put a different strain on neck and back muscles, until I get used to it.
+1 You can adapt a bike to help with your body (which I do recommend), but your body still has to adapt to a bike. Even small changes in positioning can require re-adapting again. And even with an "ideal" setup and body positioning, it still requires practice to build the appropriate support muscles. Then combine it all with sensible body-awareness (paying attention to what your body is telling you) to help spread the load and prevent damage (like strained muscles or damaged nerves).
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Well, folks I did say the risers and wedges were in-transit and they are now sitting beside me (along with a Cee Bailys euro tour shield). I'll be installing them over the next week or so while trying to stay off the bike as much as possible to let my hand recover as much as it can (still some slight numbness but it has been improving).
In a few weekends time away I have another three day ride coming up which will again feature some twisty road riding on at least two of the three days and we'll see how things go.
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glenn , risers are only 100 bucks if that doeasnt work then you have the 700 dollar option, i cant remember the name of them on murphs kits website. you will lose alot more than that selling it and you will lose the best sport tourer out there.
There are two options for endless adjustability. LSL and Helibars. The LSL bars are what I am looking into for my next big purchase. They also look really nice on the C14.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=387 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_133&products_id=387)
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I'm a big fan of the LSL bars, I cut my Ulnar nerve 22 years ago , had to have a nerve cut out of my right leg near the foot to replace it in my arm to get the fingers moving again, I did not have to drive very far for pain in my right hand , LSL's change the angle , in a good way.