Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: h2smokin on May 11, 2011, 09:25:47 PM
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Are they much better at night for those who are using them? It says about 80% brighter . Looking for a cheaper way to get more light w/o going to HID. I'm going to be traveling at night on my trip in a couple of weeks just to avoid the az. heat. thanks
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Yes the Philips Vision +80 H4 are much better than OEM. They make quite an improvement. It's probably the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade the lighting other than adding extra lights or modifying the lights to use HID!
Here's the link somebody asked for!
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304)
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+1 I use them and they make quite a difference.
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Make sure the stock lights are aimed correctly. Many, many bikes come with them aimed straight down. I know mine were.
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I noticed when I was in advanced auto parts yesterday they had some after market lights for the 14. I cant recall the brand but they were $20 and a name brand. I was thinking of trying them out.
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I just bought those from Murphs. Didn't ride at night yet.
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Yeah, that is the second test the C-14 gives new owners, right after the test to see if we can remember to 'press, release, turn' to get things started. Fail either one of those tests and you might as well be riding a Honda.
I am currently running one HID headlight and one H4 Halogen. It makes a funny yellow / white pattern on the garage door. One of my HIDs failed so I swapped it out with a spare H4 while waiting for the new set of HIDs to arrive from China. I should be installing the HIDs shortly.
Brian
Make sure the stock lights are aimed correctly. Many, many bikes come with them aimed straight down. I know mine were.
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Make sure the stock lights are aimed correctly. Many, many bikes come with them aimed straight down. I know mine were.
Mine were too. I still can't seem to get them adjusted just perfectly... yet.
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I think the easiest way is to point the bike at a white wall or garage door and move it very close to that surface. Note the height of the cut- off line of the headlights. Then back up 20 or 25 feet or so and see where the cut- off line appears; adjust the cut-off until it is slightly (an inch or two) below the height that it was when the bike was close to the wall. This will ensure that the headlights are aimed down slightly below horizontal and will give you good light coverage while not blinding oncoming drivers.
Note that the adjustments have to be turned the opposite direction of the other one to move both headlights in the same direction. For example, to move the right headlight up, the knob must be turned clockwise. To move the left headlight up the knob must be turned counter-clockwise.
Brian
Mine were too. I still can't seem to get them adjusted just perfectly... yet.
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I did have to reaim mine when I got the bike as well. Gonna check again on the height though. Wanna check and see how they are side to side as well, did'nt bother with that. Got the new bulbs ordered now tonight. Thanks for info
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I just take it to a dark quiet road and aim them. Then go for a short ride and fine tune if need be!
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Yes the Philips Vision +80 H4 are much better than OEM. They make quite an improvement. It's probably the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade the lighting other than adding extra lights or modifying the lights to use HID!
Here's the link somebody asked for!
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304)
Anyone noticed decreased lamp life with these?
Just wondering as I was considering getting new, brighter bulbs for my car and on the back of the packaging, it had a chart for brightness and also one for durability and when you went brighter, the durability went way down.
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Anyone noticed decreased lamp life with these?
Just wondering as I was considering getting new, brighter bulbs for my car and on the back of the packaging, it had a chart for brightness and also one for durability and when you went brighter, the durability went way down.
Some have said they have. I have not. But I'm one of those guys with the flashing headlight. I heard one of those headlight flashers (modulators) increases bulb life!
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Aha! It is Cap'n Bob! There are only two people with those headlight annoyers in use and the other one knows that any increased bulb life is the result of KiPass, not headlight annoyers.
I knew it.
;D
Brian
Some have said they have. I have not. But I'm one of those guys with the flashing headlight. I heard one of those headlight flashers (modulators) increases bulb life!
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Yes the Philips Vision +80 H4 are much better than OEM. They make quite an improvement. It's probably the easiest and cheapest way to upgrade the lighting other than adding extra lights or modifying the lights to use HID!
Here's the link somebody asked for!
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=130_137&products_id=304)
I know this thread was hijacked about modulators and other things, but I will bring it back on track....
I took the plunge and ordered (and just got) the even newer Philips "X-treme Vision +100% H4" bulbs from Murph's. They make the seemingly ridiculous claim that it is now TWICE the brightness of "typical" bulbs.
I have not installed them yet (it is raining AGAIN), but some people said they were able to replace the bulbs from under the dash without any bike disassembly. Is that true?
Pictures are generally useless for before/after brightness stuff with lights, because cameras will auto-adjust the iris/exposure. And I don't have a light meter (like, how many people do??) But I am going to try and get a picture of JUST ONE BULB replaced at first, so it should be possible in a photo to directly compare left to right....
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I love the headlight discussions, so I'll weigh-in..
Yes, the bulbs are easy to replace, no disassembly required. Just pull the rubber boot, disconnect the connector, flip the metal tab that holds the bulb in it's proper position and then they just pull right out.
I am curious how much you paid for these bulbs from Murphs. Why? Because I did upgrade my H4 bulbs with a kit from HID Nation. The installation of bulbs and ballasts was easy (at least on my '08 it was). I am thrilled with their performance, AND with shipping and an additional $20.00 for lifetime warranty on bulbs and ballasts, I paid $76.00.
After 6 months of use (I ride 60 miles a day) they are working perfectly.
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Yes, the bulbs are easy to replace, no disassembly required. Just pull the rubber boot, disconnect the connector, flip the metal tab that holds the bulb in it's proper position and then they just pull right out.
Great! Thanks
I am curious how much you paid for these bulbs from Murphs.
$48
Why? Because I did upgrade my H4 bulbs with a kit from HID Nation. The installation of bulbs and ballasts was easy (at least on my '08 it was). I am thrilled with their performance, AND with shipping and an additional $20.00 for lifetime warranty on bulbs and ballasts, I paid $76.00.
After 6 months of use (I ride 60 miles a day) they are working perfectly.
Well, I did perform SOME research on HID conversions. But didn't go that route because I had just finished performing a lot of very involved mods and I am worn out and there just wasn't enough information I could find about reliability, installation, legality, hi/low beam stuff, beam patterns, etc. Plus, without testimonials, I just didn't want to take the chance, especially after being badly burned by the whole failed "LED replacement bulbs" stuff.
And I didn't know that HID could be had THAT cheaply, and I would have assumed they would be "crap", which your post is helping to countermand. But I did check out that site, and the H4 kit is $99 with no warranty and large ballasts. WITH lifetime warranty and slim ballast, it is $149... and those are the "on sale!" prices. (And ground shipping is $16). While that is still cheap for HID, it is a quite a bit more expensive.
I am very pleased you are happy, and who knows, I might take the plunge later. Of course, if these work as advertised, they might be almost as bright as HID, but require no wiring or effort, and still cost considerably less. Thanks for sharing.
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The claims of XX % more light are very misleading- it would lead us to think that a 100 % increase is double the light output but that is not the case. The higher output is measured using a complicated system that amounts to + 80 (80% more than stock) being about 9 % brighter. The real thing to look for is the lumen output, which is the actual measure of light produced. High performance H4's are rated at 1000 / 1600 lumens (low / high beam respectively) and the highest output bulbs will be about 10% more than that. Compare this to 3200 lumens for stock, 35 watt HIDs and I think it becomes pretty obvious that they are not even in the same realm.
The expected life is between 3,000 and 3,500 hours from an HID capsule. Again, compare that to any halogen (tungsten) automotive headlamp available and again you will find that the HID is far superior.
35 Watt "bi- xenon" kits are about $60 from DDM Tuning.
All 'non approved' lamps are illegal when used on US autos. Even perfectly legal headlight assemblies moved to another car that never came with that type of lamp is illegal. It is really more of a backwards thing- any and all non- DOT approved lamps are illegal for use on US autos so HIDs are illegal just as any higher than 55 watt H4 is illegal. A specific lamp in a specific vehicle is type approved for use in the US by the Dept. Of Transportation and that is the only headlight that is legal for that vehicle. If one removed a pair of E-55 HID projectors from a Mercedes Benz and put them in a Volkswagen (a fairly common modification) to yield far better lighting, that modification is just as illegal as hacking an HID 'kit' into the Volkswagen because neither type was approved for that car. So it is not a matter of better or worse lighting, merely different.
Brian
I had an error in my post and corrected it before you finished your reply :) See above.
Ah, you got the hi/low kit, not the bi-xenon kit. That means no HID high beam. So yes, that costs less too. But I wouldn't want to go through all that expense, risk, and labor and end up with non-HID high beams. Can't imagine why that would be illegal- my G37 has HID high beams. The legality I was thinking of had to do with the shape of the beam.
Ironically/theoretically, I might end up with considerably MORE light on the high beams using the X-treme Vision than the "classic" Xenon high-beams included on the non-bi-xenon HID kit. Of course, high beams are used a lot less, but still.
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The claims of XX % more light are very misleading- it would lead us to think that a 100 % increase is double the light output but that is not the case.
You are right, that is exactly what any sane person would think/conclude. Just like if I said I would give you a 100 % increase in your pay, it would be double the money.
The higher output is measured using a complicated system that amounts to + 80 (80% more than stock) being about 9 % brighter. The real thing to look for is the lumen output, which is the actual measure of light produced. High performance H4's are rated at 1000 / 1600 lumens (low / high beam respectively) and the highest output bulbs will be about 10% more than that.
I just hate marketing. So I just did some additional research. Supposedly a typical H4(US Spec) is 910/1580 or 1000/1600 lumens. I found ONE claim on the X-treme Power is 1150/1895 lumens. I can't find a SINGLE measure of the X-treme Vision, even after more than an hour of searching. But it is safe to say that it is unlikely it is double 910/1580. Of course, there are other factors, but they are not tangible like lumens are. There are many people swearing there is a huge [positive] change with the X-treme bulbs... more than just a 10-15% light output would account for. Guess I will soon know.
Compare this to 3200 lumens for stock, 35 watt HIDs and I think it becomes pretty obvious that they are not even in the same realm. [...] legality [...]
From what I can tell, the HID retrofit kits have no precision in the beam and no cutoffs in the bulbs. Halogen headlight assemblies rely heavily on the EXACT placement of the filament and the cutoffs. I suspect that would mean the HID retrofit low beams would throw light everywhere and blind oncoming traffic. Re: legality- changing anything could have a huge negative effect, that might be primary reasoning.
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More light output with the same power in put.. thats the thing about these bulbs. I was turned on to them from a club whos bikes had not a watt to spare. 40 50 100 what ever, the output in lighting is a noticable improvemt over standard bulbs,, and they pull the same watts, C14 and C14 can be changed with small hands 8).. these HID units come with thier own reflectors? I have one a company sent me, Its on my tool box but I was thinkin' the input wattage was pretty high..
murph
COG 2769
Industry Member
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HIDs can be just as precise as tungsten lighting. Both types use the identical process and materials to hold the position of the light source: in a tungsten bulb, the filament is held in position while the glass envelope is closed around it and attached to the base. This positions the filament very accurately in relationship to the base, which locates the filament very accurately in the headlight housing. In HIDs, two electrodes are also held very precisely inside of the arc tube, which in turn is fastened inside the glass envelope which is directly mounted to the base which again locates the lamp (burner more properly) in the headlight housing. If the arc of an HID is held in the same place as the tungsten filament was, the beam, including the cut- off line, will be the same as it was for the filament type lamp.
There is a shield for both lamps that prevents light from being cast downward in the headlight housing when 'low' beams are used. This in turn prevents light from being reflected 'up' above the cut- off line. In H4 lamps, this shield is actually under the low beam filament, inside the bulb itself. Oh HIDs, the shield is external to the lamp itself and is the chromed, sheet metal housing that prevents light from shining down (low beam use only). The fronts of both lamps are also shielded so as not to scatter light forward and blind oncoming drivers: on the H4 the front of the lamp itself is coated with dark gray ceramic paint; on the HID, the front of the shield is solid to prevent light from passing directly forward.
As to the cut- off, there is no cut- off in any bulb of any type; the cut- off line in the beam is created by the shape of the reflector in reflector headlights, or the shield inside the housings of projector headlights. On a C-14, the cut- off is created by the shape of the upper part of the reflector. HIDs maintain a very sharp cut-off, similar to the beam shape when the original type bulb is used.
While HIDs are illegal, they can be used responsibly in a C-14, at least in my opinion. The object is to get better lighting on the road, not in other driver's eyes. The C-14 headlight housing produces a very good HID beam shape and does not scatter excessive light above the cut- off line is they are aligned properly.
Brian
<snip>
From what I can tell, the HID retrofit kits have no precision in the beam and no cutoffs in the bulbs. Halogen headlight assemblies rely heavily on the EXACT placement of the filament and the cutoffs. I suspect that would mean the HID retrofit low beams would throw light everywhere and blind oncoming traffic. Re: legality- changing anything could have a huge negative effect, that might be primary reasoning.
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The X-treme Vision came a few days ago and I installed them last night. I replaced only one bulb, the left, so I could compare and contrast the two. Indeed you can replace the bulbs without removing or disassembling any of the bike.
First is a picture (below) showing the two bulbs together- Xtreme Vision vs. OEM. I did not expect the Xtreme to be tinted- nobody mentioned that, nor in the specs. It is not fully tinted, just a stripe of light blue.
I didn't expect so much overlap in the beams (I guess it is obvious, I just didn't think about it.) So any comparison of the beams, photographically is nearly impossible for me. But I was able to look at the ground, right in front of the bike, and see the separate scatter patterns, one for each side. I took a picture (attached), although it isn't terribly revealing.
Then I took a towel and covered one light, then the other, back and forth, while looking at the results on a white garage door, about 20 feet away. The X-treme Vision is definitely brighter, and also whiter, than the OEM. It is very easy to see the difference. To my eyes, they appear to be about 20% brighter. Certainly not inline with the "+100", "100% brighter", or any such bogus marketing claims.
Conclusion: You get whiter and 20% brighter headlights with this super easy upgrade (took about 5 min). Have no idea if it will affect the life of the bulbs (and really don't care). 100% legal. Same beam as OEM so no surprises with glare or scatter.
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Maxtog, thanks for the post. I just got my Philips X-treme H4 headlight bulbs from Murphs and will install them tomorrow. You did the tests I was going to do. Seems like they will be an improvement, but won't light up the night sky. Nonetheless, I expect to be happy with them. The OEM lights on low beam are not very good - I can only ride about 50 mph in the dark before running past my braking point. I don't ride at night much unless I have to (deer, etc.), but I am expecting the new bulbs will project to "70 mph".
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Maxtog, thanks for the post. I just got my Philips X-treme H4 headlight bulbs from Murphs and will install them tomorrow. You did the tests I was going to do. Seems like they will be an improvement, but won't light up the night sky. Nonetheless, I expect to be happy with them. The OEM lights on low beam are not very good - I can only ride about 50 mph in the dark before running past my braking point. I don't ride at night much unless I have to (deer, etc.), but I am expecting the new bulbs will project to "70 mph".
Let us know how it goes. I had planned a 200 mile trip tomorrow to visit Mom, but the forecast is thunderstorms with a heat index of 105 (strange combination), so I hope to go next weekend instead. So it is likely you will get better "on road" testing before I will. I did install the second bulb today inbetween the rain. I noticed that the bulbs only throw light through the partial bluish tint stripe on low beam and not high. One thing is for sure, after finally figuring out how the bulb hook works last night, today it only took me 60 seconds.... I guess I am a bulb-swapping pro now :)
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3-1/2 years ago, when Gary first got the Phillips lamps, he shot some to me for a comparo.
I did a 3 way test with them against the stock, and the good old NAPA 80/100 lamps, it is located here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562934931jTswFo (http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562934931jTswFo)
I'm still running the stock lamps (knock on wood), when I loose one, I'll give the Phiilips a try ... ;D
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3-1/2 years ago, when Gary first got the Phillips lamps, he shot some to me for a comparo.
I did a 3 way test with them against the stock, and the good old NAPA 80/100 lamps, it is located here:[]
I'm still running the stock lamps (knock on wood), when I loose one, I'll give the Phiilips a try ... ;D
Thanks for the pics, but you really can't compare with one lamp of each type in the same bike at the same time because the beams overlap most of the pattern. And trying to compare from two different shots isn't going to work either, since (most) cameras will adjust the exposure automatically. It really (unfortunately) requires having two identical bikes, each with a different pair of bulbs, showing their beams in the same photo. Obviously, that is pretty impractical!
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Hmmm.... well glad I asked, I'm a "headlight rookie", have always just ran stock before but I do like the idea of doing something like Jeremy's setup... Guess I need to do a little more research. ???
Scroll back through the other postings in this thread. My short summary is:
HID +
LOTS of light (and that, of course, is the HUGE + and main purpose)
Longer life (but not necessarily, depends on kit)
Less power load (about half the wattage)
HID -
Expensive (depends on if you get HID low AND high beams)
Could cause lots of glare
Could cause UV degrading of the headlight plastics (and eye damage too)
Illegal (see my previous post)
Several hours to install everything
More components to fail
The point of the replacement, high-performance Halogen bulbs (like the topic/subject of this thread) is to see if you can gain some additional light, legally, with a 5 min install, and costs a lot less. My conclusion is that you can get more light, but not a lot more... maybe 20%
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Let us know how it goes. I had planned a 200 mile trip tomorrow to visit Mom, but the forecast is thunderstorms with a heat index of 105 (strange combination), so I hope to go next weekend instead. So it is likely you will get better "on road" testing before I will. I did install the second bulb today inbetween the rain. I noticed that the bulbs only throw light through the partial bluish tint stripe on low beam and not high. One thing is for sure, after finally figuring out how the bulb hook works last night, today it only took me 60 seconds.... I guess I am a bulb-swapping pro now :)
I tested the Phillips H4 +100% bulbs last night. They are an improvement but not astounding so (i.e., not "+100%", as BDF pointed out). But I will say that I felt comfortable riding at 70 mph with the low beams vs only 50 mph with the stockers, so my aim was met. I chose the simpler approach of upgrading the bulbs instead of the complexity, cost and hassle of a HID system. Swapping bulbs took 5 minutes (Fred's video showed how simple it is). For $48, I consider this to be a good investment.
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Since moving to the Phillips bulbs from Murphs, I seem to have them burn out about one per year. That seems very short to me. It concerns me because I ride during the day, and I don't often notice they are burned out. I am currently down to one bulb. Luckily I always hold on to the OEM bulbs and I can just swap them back in. High beam of course is good since I never use it, always just the low beam.
(Yes I am VERY careful not to get my oils on the bulb glass)
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Since moving to the Phillips bulbs from Murphs, I seem to have them burn out about one per year. That seems very short to me. It concerns me because I ride during the day, and I don't often notice they are burned out. I am currently down to one bulb. Luckily I always hold on to the OEM bulbs and I can just swap them back in. High beam of course is good since I never use it, always just the low beam.
(Yes I am VERY careful not to get my oils on the bulb glass)
I just replaced a set of those Phillips bulbs from Murph myself, the low beam went out on one of em. Mine lasted almost three years. I stuck an old oem bulb in too till I got the replacements delivered.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18000.msg240590#msg240590 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18000.msg240590#msg240590)
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Thanks for the link. I feel bad not buying from Murph though. :(
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I replace one bulb/year on average. Carry extra OEM bulbs when on road trips
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got the Phillips +100 some time ago (I'm not at home so I can't check when exactly, with mileage), and indeed they are an improvement, just not twice the light, for the simple reason that twice the lumens (which I believe they do provide) do not mean twice the light, for a reason: our eyes, just like our hearing, are logarithmic senses. A hearing example: 3 dB mean a bit more volume in any player, but twice the power in the amplifier. Unfortunately, twice the light is only about 15% more perceived light by our eyes.
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Thanks for the link. I feel bad not buying from Murph though. :(
Truthfully, so did I. But have you noticed that Murph seems to have forgotten us over here on this forum? I see him posting all the time over at the COG site but never here.
Besides, Murph appears to be still selling the older model of these bulbs, the +100% whereas Amazon has the +130%.