Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: wendel on March 06, 2012, 06:50:51 AM
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I had a 2008 C14 and was convinced I needed a new 2010 Wing. I miss the performance, cornering clearance etc. Really considering going back to a new c14 ABS. Not really interested in the black though. I am willing to travel within reason for a good deal. I know from before when I was on this forum, there were many members who knew of C14s that just were not selling and were priced low.
So, I am looking for a deal now. Currently have one dealer that wants $15989 out the door on 2011 black C!4 ABS with traction control etc.
I am adding my location. I did not realize it was not posted. I am in Gainesville, Fl.
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Refreshing to see someone that DOESN'T want a black C14. ;D
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That sounds high to me for a 2011. There are plenty to found for $11,000 - $12,000.
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That sounds high to me for a 2011. There are plenty to found for $11,000 - $12,000.
Agreed!
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I don't want black either.-lol
Check these folks out, I have heard good things about them and they appear to be getting $14,300 plus $215 for setup and delivery. They are located in Troy New York, just outside of Albany.
http://www.troycitygarage.com/street_bikes.htm (http://www.troycitygarage.com/street_bikes.htm)
I also know that the dealer that advertises on ebay is also fairly competitive. It seems that Kawisaki has come down on the dealers that are advertising bikes for below the list price. So don't be afraid to make an offer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAND-NEW-2012-KAWASAKI-ZG1400-SUPER-SALE-CONCOURS-ABS-BLACK-12-SALE-/290678143377?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item43adc47991 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAND-NEW-2012-KAWASAKI-ZG1400-SUPER-SALE-CONCOURS-ABS-BLACK-12-SALE-/290678143377?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item43adc47991)
Good Luck,
Fred
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That is with my trade in which really comes close to paying the wing off. Like I said, I am willing to travel for a good deal. Several dealerships that I called no longer handle Kawasaki. Don't know what is up with that. I agree the price is high. Ocala, Fl. has a left over 2010 for 11,999. It is not the ABS I don't think. I will call them tomorrow. Trying to give my local dealer a shot but, it is not looking good. The wing is a great bike for what it was designed for, and I am in no hurry to get out of it and get robbed in the trade in process. So I am still looking.
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Here is what Troy City has posted on their web Site. They are not referring to Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki. Yes this abt Kawi!!
Effective March 1st one of our manufacturers (we sell all 4 Japanese manufacturers and its not HONDA, SUZUKI or YAMAHA) is demanding all dealers post only manufacturers suggested retail pricing on websites or in any advertisement. We feel this policy is illegal and plan to challenge it. Until the issue is resolved we will not use any trademarks of that manufacturer (their name or the names of their models) so that we may post our sale pricing.
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Wendel if my memory serves correctly there was a member on the forum(was probably the old forum) that was from Fla. that purchased a bike from Cycle World down in NJ(Cycle World is the 2nd link that I sent you). He flew in spent the night and picked the bike up the following morning and than drove it home. I remember him saying how the bike was ready for pick up when he arrived and that he was very happy with the transaction including the pick up.
Good Luck,
Fred
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So, I am looking for a deal now. Currently have one dealer that wants $15989 out the door on 2011 black C!4 ABS with traction control etc.
Out the door is the meaningless term ever, it means all costs of bike before you leave the dealer. Why? well, you might pay sales tax, some states don't even charge it, that alone can change the price by over $1,000. How about registration fees? Some you pay now, others you go to dmw.
There is is only ONE relevent price to post- the total price of bike before taxes. Yup, TOTAL price. If they had on destination, set up fee, wax and polish, etc, add that padding to the cost of the bike.
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Wendel, you don't say where you are located but I am in S.E. Florida and have been "considering" selling my 2010 Connie.
Shoot me a PM if you are interested....
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Out the door is the meaningless term ever, it means all costs of bike before you leave the dealer. Why? well, you might pay sales tax, some states don't even charge it, that alone can change the price by over $1,000. How about registration fees? Some you pay now, others you go to dmw.
There is is only ONE relevent price to post- the total price of bike before taxes. Yup, TOTAL price. If they had on destination, set up fee, wax and polish, etc, add that padding to the cost of the bike.
That is ridiculous. The price one actually pays is the only one that counts. And that includes the various fees, taxes, delivery etc. Try writing the check without paying those fees and you'll not get too far.
It may be easier to compare pre-tax prices when shopping, but OTD is what will be spent. Every time.
OT - I've been curious for a while. What is a katata?
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That is ridiculous. The price one actually pays is the only one that counts. And that includes the various fees, taxes, delivery etc. Try writing the check without paying those fees and you'll not get too far.
It may be easier to compare pre-tax prices when shopping, but OTD is what will be spent. Every time.
OT - I've been curious for a while. What is a katata?
+1 The out-the-door price is the only price that matters.
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+1 The out-the-door price is the only price that matters.
True. However, if I tell you that I paid $12,800 out the door for a 2012 C14, you'll tell me it's a great deal. Problem is, that price is in Connecticut. The same bike, with the same "pre-tax" price would be $14,400 in California -- not nearly as good of a price, right?
I think that's the point that was trying to be made.
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Refreshing to see someone that DOESN'T want a black C14. ;D
He has good taste
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Call these guys for the best price. Do not pay any attention to the price in the auction. READ the description. I have always been treated 1st class by these guys:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2012-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-ZG1400-ABS-CLEARANCE-SALE-/140714463140?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item20c33c4fa4#ht_7048wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2012-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-ZG1400-ABS-CLEARANCE-SALE-/140714463140?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item20c33c4fa4#ht_7048wt_1165)
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That is ridiculous. The price one actually pays is the only one that counts. And that includes the various fees, taxes, delivery etc. Try writing the check without paying those fees and you'll not get too far.
It may be easier to compare pre-tax prices when shopping, but OTD is what will be spent. Every time.
Obviously, you don't know how to shop. As I said, fees vary from state to state, otd cost is the number you need to shop. You paid X amount for a bike in CO? Well hell, it might sound like a lot because your number included sales tax on it. I have no idea what the sales tax rate is there, but do know that if bought a bike there and brought it back to my state, I wouldn't pay a dine in tax to CO; I'd pay sales tax to my DMV.
Did you pay a registration bill at the dealer? Great, but in my state, we don't do that. As for delivery, setup, etc, I think I was very clear that those should be included with the price as should doc fees. Again, lumping in sales tax is stupid as that varies not only from state to state, but from county to county and dealers have no control over that. It has no relevance in price comparing.
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Shall we say our shopping styles are different? I prefer to know what my out-of-pocket will be. Bench racing/shopping holds little appeal for me.
You snipped my question - What is a katata?
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Out the door is the meaningless term ever, it means all costs of bike before you leave the dealer. Why? well, you might pay sales tax, some states don't even charge it, that alone can change the price by over $1,000. How about registration fees? Some you pay now, others you go to dmw.
There is is only ONE relevent price to post- the total price of bike before taxes. Yup, TOTAL price. If they had on destination, set up fee, wax and polish, etc, add that padding to the cost of the bike.
Obviously, you don't know how to shop. As I said, fees vary from state to state, otd cost is the number you need to shop. You paid X amount for a bike in CO? Well hell, it might sound like a lot because your number included sales tax on it. I have no idea what the sales tax rate is there, but do know that if bought a bike there and brought it back to my state, I wouldn't pay a dine in tax to CO; I'd pay sales tax to my DMV.
Did you pay a registration bill at the dealer? Great, but in my state, we don't do that. As for delivery, setup, etc, I think I was very clear that those should be included with the price as should doc fees. Again, lumping in sales tax is stupid as that varies not only from state to state, but from county to county and dealers have no control over that. It has no relevance in price comparing.
I'm confused, it seems that the bolded statements above contradict each other. :o
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It can be confusing and misleading to some of us looking at what people in other states are paying for vehicles. Taxes and registration fees vary greatly from state- to- state so someone from, say, New Hampshire might report buying a vehicle for XX,XXX but that price will never include any sales tax as there is none in that state. Someone in RI buying the identical vehicle at the identical price will pay an additional 7% in sales tax, either at the time and point of sale or when registering the vehicle.
So while the total cost (including any local fees) is certainly important, it is also important to note that what someone else in a different state paid for specific vehicle may not be what someone in another state will pay.
Brian
Out the door is the meaningless term ever, it means all costs of bike before you leave the dealer. Why? well, you might pay sales tax, some states don't even charge it, that alone can change the price by over $1,000. How about registration fees? Some you pay now, others you go to dmw.
There is is only ONE relevent price to post- the total price of bike before taxes. Yup, TOTAL price. If they had on destination, set up fee, wax and polish, etc, add that padding to the cost of the bike.
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Thanks for the replies. Ronski I sent you a personal message and contact information.
I am in Gainesville, Fl. Sales tax is 6%. I am only paying $27.00 in sales tax as my trade will nearly be paid off. They have reduced most of the fees, and there is a $184.00 fee for tags, title and registration. They are using the $1,000.00 rebate to pay the fees. I am not fooled there. They are trying to sell their bike as close to retail as possible. The negative equity is minor. I know farkles do not add a lot to resale value but, I will not just give the wing away. It is a great bike for what it is designed for and I am not unhappy with it. So a dealer is not going to beable to just throw a number at me and hook me. I made a good deal when I had the 08 C14. I just miss some aspects of the C14. My ideal situation would be to have one of each.
I did not start this thread to create a ruckus about OTD pricing. I hope this thread does not go the same route as many of the threads on the Goldwing forum where a thread will turn into nothing but a bashing fest.
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Wendle,
Don't worry about the ruckus, that's what we do best. ;)
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FWIW, when comparing prices the only thing that should be considered is the price of the BIKE ONLY. That is the only CONSTANT since as stated tax and DMV rates vary by state. Also some shops waive freight/setup or charge different amounts. OTD only works when comparing the same model at the same dealer.
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The OTD price is the price on the bottom line of a Bill of Sale, and includes freight, setup and all state taxes/fees. Freight and setup are soft costs that can be jiggled by dealers. State taxes and fees are hard operating costs that have to be remitted back to state/local agencies. As such, it is dicey to compare OTD prices across states because taxes and fees vary and some states access taxes based on where the vehicle is titled rather than where it is purchased. OTD prices within the same state are a legit comparison.
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My tax rate will remain constant no matter where I buy. If I buy out of State like I have done on the last three motorcycles I have bought, then that state does not charge tax because it is not being registered in that state. When I return to Florida is when I pay taxes, title, tag and registration fees. So the only real variables are the dealer fees that they charge for setup, delivery and dealership fees. I have bought numerous motorcycles and cars out of state and this is how the transaction has happened each time. I always figure in the 6% sales tax for my county and guess pretty closely at the registration fees.
In Georgia if you buy from a private party and register the vehicle in Georgia then no sales tax. Buy from a dealership and register in Georgia and there is a sales tax. I have also bought in North Carolina and not paid sales taxes, so in my humble opinion, out the door prices can be compared within a couple hundred dollars.
North Carolina dealer quoted me a better price for a 2012 than local dealer for 2011 and pretty good deal for a 2011. Local dealer (Streit's, Gainesville, Fl.) acted as though they were insulted. Oh well. I try to support local but some just refuse to make it worth your while.
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Here is what Troy City has posted on their web Site. They are not referring to Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki. Yes this abt Kawi!!
Effective March 1st one of our manufacturers (we sell all 4 Japanese manufacturers and its not HONDA, SUZUKI or YAMAHA) is demanding all dealers post only manufacturers suggested retail pricing on websites or in any advertisement. We feel this policy is illegal and plan to challenge it. Until the issue is resolved we will not use any trademarks of that manufacturer (their name or the names of their models) so that we may post our sale pricing.
My Kawasaki dealer told me recently that Kawasaki is getting ready to demand that dealers do exactly that. I think it is an idiotic marketing decision.
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I'm not sure if it's illegal or not as I have seen similar things on the net pertaining to other products. I think this is a reaction from the dealers and not something just coming willy nilly from Kwak HQ. I would imagine that some dealers got their knickers in a twist over other dealers advertising lower prices and asked Kwak to put a cease and desist on the ones that do.
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I noticed that recently when I posted a link to an Ebay auction from a favorite dealer. They had MSRP or best offer listed. They usually list their best price which is usually just under Cherry Hill after the 500 fee they charge.
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The OTD price is the price on the bottom line of a Bill of Sale, and includes freight, setup and all state taxes/fees. Freight and setup are soft costs that can be jiggled by dealers. State taxes and fees are hard operating costs that have to be remitted back to state/local agencies. As such, it is dicey to compare OTD prices across states because taxes and fees vary and some states access taxes based on where the vehicle is titled rather than where it is purchased. OTD prices within the same state are a legit comparison.
+1
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My tax rate will remain constant no matter where I buy. If I buy out of State like I have done on the last three motorcycles I have bought, then that state does not charge tax because it is not being registered in that state. When I return to Florida is when I pay taxes, title, tag and registration fees. So the only real variables are the dealer fees that they charge for setup, delivery and dealership fees. I have bought numerous motorcycles and cars out of state and this is how the transaction has happened each time. I always figure in the 6% sales tax for my county and guess pretty closely at the registration fees.
In Georgia if you buy from a private party and register the vehicle in Georgia then no sales tax. Buy from a dealership and register in Georgia and there is a sales tax. I have also bought in North Carolina and not paid sales taxes, so in my humble opinion, out the door prices can be compared within a couple hundred dollars.
North Carolina dealer quoted me a better price for a 2012 than local dealer for 2011 and pretty good deal for a 2011. Local dealer (Streit's, Gainesville, Fl.) acted as though they were insulted. Oh well. I try to support local but some just refuse to make it worth your while.
If you traded in the Wing how would that work with sales tax? If bought a new Wing for 20,000 and got 10,000 on trade I would only pay tax on the remaining 10,000. That seems to vary by state as well.
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Here in Missouri you only pay tax on the difference between your trade in and the new vehicle that you are purchasing.
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How trade-ins are handled for tax purposes vary by state. In Virginia, the tax is on the purchase price (includes freight, etc) without an allowance for the trade-in. In the example above, the tax would be on the $20,000 wing and not on the difference.
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So what's the verdict Wendel? A new bike in the stable?
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Still haven't pulled the trigger. I have approved financing with a good rate. I just am not quite happy with the deal yet for a 2012 at a dealership in Ocala, Fl. The problem is, the wing is a great motorcycle and I have some useful add ons already. The C14 is a great motorcycle also. One of the things that frustrated me with the 08 C14 was the seat height even with a Corbin and handlebar risers. i still dropped it several times. You know a particular type of bike gets dropped alot when there is a separate thread dedicated to people dropping them. I have a 30 inch inseam. Also, you have to buy the equipment for music, crashbars, trunk, handlebar risers, new or modified seat so you can somewhat touch the ground when it is level. No cruise control for long trips. I tried the throttlemeiseter and in the mountains it is a constant issue of decreasing speed going uphill and increasing speeds going down. I travel to the mountains quite a bit.
So, I am still considering the C14 and really missing having one. You know, the old grass is always greener on the other side until you get on the other side and you realized it isn't.
Thanks for the interest and the people that have given me some useful leads. Dealer in North Carolina quoted me a pretty strong price. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get away from work and then there is always the possibility that once I traveled all that distance the deal could change and I have wasted the trip and money for nothing. I have an inherent distrust of dealerships as I think many of you do.
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One of the things that frustrated me with the 08 C14 was the seat height even with a Corbin and handlebar risers. i still dropped it several times. I have a 30 inch inseam.
HA! You have long legs. *I* have a 27" inseam and have not dropped it yet (knock on wood). Lowering bike, raising boots:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=260.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=260.0)
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Still haven't pulled the trigger. I have approved financing with a good rate. I just am not quite happy with the deal yet for a 2012 at a dealership in Ocala, Fl. The problem is, the wing is a great motorcycle and I have some useful add ons already. The C14 is a great motorcycle also. One of the things that frustrated me with the 08 C14 was the seat height even with a Corbin and handlebar risers. i still dropped it several times. You know a particular type of bike gets dropped alot when there is a separate thread dedicated to people dropping them. I have a 30 inch inseam. Also, you have to buy the equipment for music, crashbars, trunk, handlebar risers, new or modified seat so you can somewhat touch the ground when it is level. No cruise control for long trips. I tried the throttlemeiseter and in the mountains it is a constant issue of decreasing speed going uphill and increasing speeds going down. I travel to the mountains quite a bit.
So, I am still considering the C14 and really missing having one. You know, the old grass is always greener on the other side until you get on the other side and you realized it isn't.
Thanks for the interest and the people that have given me some useful leads. Dealer in North Carolina quoted me a pretty strong price. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get away from work and then there is always the possibility that once I traveled all that distance the deal could change and I have wasted the trip and money for nothing. I have an inherent distrust of dealerships as I think many of you do.
IMHO, it seems that the Wing has EVERYTHING that you are looking for. While I understand that the C14 has the power no Wing will match it. It becomes an issue of PRIORITIES. I am a classic example. I had a great 2008 Wing with the Full Monty Traxxion, it was setup perfectly with several mods and then one day I felt like I did not use it enough to justify the cost so I sold it. I have had tons of bikes but that 2008 Wing is the only one that I wish I had back and that alone tells me something. Obviously by looking at my C14 I have it set up for sport-TOURING and always ride two up. Finances have dictated that I keep the C14 for a few more years and then maybe buy a Wing as that seems to be the prefect platform for me. I would love to buy a Wing and strip the C14 down and keep it for the twisties as a solo platform but I do not get the time to do that often enough to keep it. I have my C14 set up pretty well for the riding I do so I am happy at the present time. Good luck with your decision.
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+1, you appear to be on the fence and are not convinced that you really want a C-14. If you buy one and invest in all the needed farkles, you might regret that decision because the C-14 does not suit. You might want to rent a ST to see if that is what you really want, or you might want to invest in a used C-14 that is already farkled-out.
Ride On!
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<snip> i still dropped it several times. You know a particular type of bike gets dropped alot when there is a separate thread dedicated to people dropping them. I have a 30 inch inseam.<snip>
Actually, the CDA thing started with the C10's because of the tall seat, high center of gravity and a very large fuel tank. It's just a carryover for the C14's.
As also noted, it sounds like the C14 may not be the best bike for you, even if you would like it to be. Lots of things seem better on paper or in the imagination than they do in person, and you sound like that was true for you and the C14 the first time around.
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Actually, the CDA thing started with the C10's because of the tall seat, high center of gravity and a very large fuel tank. It's just a carryover for the C14's.
And rather heavy/big in general, too. Yep, sounds like it applies just as well to the C14. There is no wrestling this bike for me (like my previous two)... when it starts a-tippin' I just know it is going down. Thankfully it hasn't happened yet, but it will :( Almost lost it a few weeks ago- I put my foot down right in an oil slick. The sad part is it was even worse at the NEXT stop (the oil seemed to really like my boot soles).
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+1... I was out this weekend and nearly went over on a twig probably no larger than a pencil. My boot went on top of it and it rolled. Thank goodness I didn't. I have done the oil dance a number of times. I hate it when that happens.
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I fortunately have not dropped my C-14, although I have come close...I dropped another bike when I forgot to put the kickstand down.
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+1 in the garage.
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+1... I was out this weekend and nearly went over on a twig probably no larger than a pencil. My boot went on top of it and it rolled. Thank goodness I didn't. I have done the oil dance a number of times. I hate it when that happens.
Hmm, we need to invent some wheels on pneumatic legs that automatically flip down, quickly, to stabilize the bike if it goes over X percent tilt at a low speed. Not sure it is practical, though. But it would be great as an automatic kickstand, too! Only thing I have seen like them are on those "fully enclosed" two-wheel motorcycle/car things.
I really need tip-over protection :(
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Just got home with a 2012 C14. Dealer made me a pretty good deal. I had an offer that was only $200.00 less but I would had to ride to Atlanta. Dealer in Atlanta told me he could not make it worth my while and I could not find anyone that could. This was a pretty strong deal I feel. I am not naive enough to think they did not make any money. Once they start replacing parts from me riding the wing like a sport bike in the mountains, I do not know if they will make any money. The footpegs were ground to a point, the exhaust cowls on both side were dented in from the suspension bottoming out in the mountains, all four crash bars were flat spotted. I actually got far enough over in a curve that the rear tire lost contact with the road. That is fun when you can get it that far over and no guard rail in sight. They made an offer which was pretty good and not being dissatisfied totally with the wing, I countered with an offer I figured they refuse and I would beable to justify keeping the wing. They accepted and now I can ride more sportier roads. Maybe when things get better I will get a wing and pull the C14 on a trailer with the wing to the mountains. So farkling I go.
They saved me quite a bit on insurance so now I have a 2012 Blk C14.
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+1... I was out this weekend and nearly went over on a twig probably no larger than a pencil. My boot went on top of it and it rolled. Thank goodness I didn't. I have done the oil dance a number of times. I hate it when that happens.
I cannot tell you how many times that has happened to me!
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Hmm, we need to invent some wheels on pneumatic legs that automatically flip down, quickly, to stabilize the bike if it goes over X percent tilt at a low speed. Not sure it is practical, though. But it would be great as an automatic kickstand, too! Only thing I have seen like them are on those "fully enclosed" two-wheel motorcycle/car things.
I really need tip-over protection :(
I think that's the basic idea of these: http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html (http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html)
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I think that's the basic idea of these: http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html (http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html)
:o
Why not just get one of these... http://www.scooter.com/ (http://www.scooter.com/)
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I think that's the basic idea of these: http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html (http://www.epiflex.com/sidekicks.html)
OMG, not quite what I was thinking!