Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Sea Level on January 25, 2012, 04:09:22 PM
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While my 2011 is in the shop for winter storage and a few minor maintenance items, I am having them remove the secondary flies and put in a PC.
Here is my question: how excited should I be? ;D
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That depends on how much you trust your shop to not break a screw head off, drop a screw down the throttle body or not bend the shaft. ;)
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Depends on what full exhaust you're running, hopefully not still using the potato launcher or you'll probably not notice much difference at all... :'(
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Even with a stock exhaust you will notice a pretty good difference............at least I did.
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If having an extra 12ft/lb or so of torque available to you from about 2-5k and better throttle response sounds good to you, then you should be excited. :) It will definitely make a difference. It's not a mind-blowing upgrade like adding a full exhaust system will be, but it's good cheap fun.
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That depends on how much you trust your shop to not break a screw head off, drop a screw down the throttle body or not bend the shaft. ;)
I did it myself using the right JIS #2 screw driver. Piece of cake.
Depends on what full exhaust you're running, hopefully not still using the potato launcher or you'll probably not notice much difference at all... :'(
Agreed. Same for me. Not a big difference but noticeable and would recommend it anyway.
Changing out the whole exhaust in a few weeks to see about the whole result.
Mark
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I installed my full Muzzy's system about 10 months after I pulled my flies and it made quite a difference. I also added an AutoTune the same time as the exhaust so that might account for a little of the extra kick in the pants. Next time I find a dyno operater that will accept anything beside a Harley I will get some numbers to try and quantify the gain.
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We can look forward to your impression, I liked the increase in power don lo, I also like the new found torque down low, I was able to run on gear up at a lower rpm, As far as farkle nechanics this is the best todate, every other powa adder builds fro here, easch step provides just a tick more, once you have the total package it all comes together and the words I would use is wickedly smoothe.. It's all undoable, easily, and if you find things not to you liking just put em back. I dont think those flies will occipie the TBs, they will be in a baggyhabging in the swap wall.
Just do it!!
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That depends on how much you trust your shop to not break a screw head off, drop a screw down the throttle body or not bend the shaft. ;)
Party pooper!
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This is my second bike bought and serviced from the shop I use. They are very competent and trustworthy, for which they charge a premium compared to other area shops, and for which I am willing to pay. I don't really care who works on my car, but the bike and plane are totally different animals.
To answer an earlier question, I still have the stock exhaust on the Connie. I was disappointed to hear that the flyectomy won't be as exciting because of that, and I am thinking about having the shop switch me over to an Area P or other tuned exhaust while they have it. The only problem is I'm having a difficult time finding the line I have to draw between gaining performance and leaving enough money behind to go out to dinner now and then. 8)
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Update: y'all convinced me that without the exhaust I wasn't going to be satisfied with the flyectomy and PC, so I went ahead and had a 2 Brothers slip-on installed as well. Between all that and the brand new PR3's, I am thinking that I should experience a difference....
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What/whose map have you got in the PC?
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Update: y'all convinced me that without the exhaust I wasn't going to be satisfied with the flyectomy and PC, so I went ahead and had a 2 Brothers slip-on installed as well. Between all that and the brand new PR3's, I am thinking that I should experience a difference....
I don't think any slip on will make a difference in power compared to the stock can. The restriction is not in the muffler; it is in the header pipes. Do a search here and you can find pictures of stock vs the pipes on the area p- area p pipes are huge! Before anyone chimes and says that small pipes increase tq, keep in mind that no one with these pipes is complaining about lost tq. Pipe size should get bigger as the motor gets bigger, with that in mind, the pipes on my GSX 1100 are bigger, hell, I think the header pipes on my old GS 550e were bigger!
I won't get a tune on my bike until I have at least an aftermarket full exhaust on it.
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I don't think any slip on will make a difference in power compared to the stock can. The restriction is not in the muffler; it is in the header pipes. Do a search here and you can find pictures of stock vs the pipes on the area p- area p pipes are huge! Before anyone chimes and says that small pipes increase tq, keep in mind that no one with these pipes is complaining about lost tq. Pipe size should get bigger as the motor gets bigger, with that in mind, the pipes on my GSX 1100 are bigger, hell, I think the header pipes on my old GS 550e were bigger!
I won't get a tune on my bike until I have at least an aftermarket full exhaust on it.
:goodpost: +1, I agree with the Katman...
The big difference is when you go to a full system, I ran a Muzzys slip-on for awhile before I got my full system and there wasn't much difference at all if any between hp with a slip-on and stock hp...
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My Leo Vince slip on runs about the same as the stock muffler. It does look slightly better, but no performance difference. However, the flies out are still amazing.
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Update: y'all convinced me that without the exhaust I wasn't going to be satisfied with the flyectomy and PC, so I went ahead and had a 2 Brothers slip-on installed as well. Between all that and the brand new PR3's, I am thinking that I should experience a difference....
Contrary to what others have said, a slip-on WILL make a noticeable difference vs. the stock pipe with the flies removed. Go to FuelMoto's site here: http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm (http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm) to lok over the dyno results of various configurations. A nice bump and a good upgrade.
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Contrary to what others have said, a slip-on WILL make a noticeable difference vs. the stock pipe with the flies removed. Go to FuelMoto's site here: http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm (http://fuelmotousa.com/2008_kawasaki_zg1400_concours.htm) to lok over the dyno results of various configurations. A nice bump and a good upgrade.
The graphs don't prove squat- it shows that a stock bike with an aftermarket tune makes less power than a stock bike with an aftermarket tune, slipon AND FLIES REMOVED!
Unless that stock bike with aftermarket tuning also has its flies removed, you can't make a comparison.
Over at Holeshot performance, there is a graph showing a stock bike with stock can vs stock bike with Holeshot slipon and a tune. I think the gain was 6hp. How much gain was from the slipon, how much from the tune? The fact that you don't need a tune for a slipon implies that the exhaust flow is barely altered, if at all.
Putting on a slipon to get more power makes as much sense as a fat chick thinking she can improve her chances of getting laid by painting her toenails- the elephant in the kitchen is the narrow header pipes. And, if you didn't get the fat chick analogy, she needs to drop 100 lbs!
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The graphs don't prove squat- it shows that a stock bike with an aftermarket tune makes less power than a stock bike with an aftermarket tune, slipon AND FLIES REMOVED!
Unless that stock bike with aftermarket tuning also has its flies removed, you can't make a comparison.
Over at Holeshot performance, there is a graph showing a stock bike with stock can vs stock bike with Holeshot slipon and a tune. I think the gain was 6hp. How much gain was from the slipon, how much from the tune? The fact that you don't need a tune for a slipon implies that the exhaust flow is barely altered, if at all.
Putting on a slipon to get more power makes as much sense as a fat chick thinking she can improve her chances of getting laid by painting her toenails- the elephant in the kitchen is the narrow header pipes. And, if you didn't get the fat chick analogy, she needs to drop 100 lbs!
:o What color nail pollish?? :-\
If it's red she could improve her chances with some after many beers... ;)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/beer-glasses.jpg)
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An alternative is to keep the flies (which are a component of traction control in 2010 and later bikes) and get the ECU reflashed. There are many postings on this site and the COG site that tout the advantages of ECU reflashing, especially for 2010+ bikes (my 2010 is very happy with its Guhl reflash).
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An alternative is to keep the flies (which are a component of traction control in 2010 and later bikes) and get the ECU reflashed. There are many postings on this site and the COG site that tout the advantages of ECU reflashing, especially for 2010+ bikes (my 2010 is very happy with its Guhl reflash).
These people have dealers that flash their software. Anyone tried them?
http://ecunleashed.com/motorcycle-com-2011-zx10r-ecu-tuning-flash/ (http://ecunleashed.com/motorcycle-com-2011-zx10r-ecu-tuning-flash/)
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An alternative is to keep the flies (which are a component of traction control in 2010 and later bikes) and get the ECU reflashed. There are many postings on this site and the COG site that tout the advantages of ECU reflashing, especially for 2010+ bikes (my 2010 is very happy with its Guhl reflash).
It's amazing the amount of contradictory opinions one little motorcycle can generate. I've read dozens of times here that the fly removal has no affect on the traction control. I've read that the slip-on will have a noticeable affect on low-end torque in conjunction with the fly removal. Realizing that some of the wow factor is subjective, maybe all of it with out a direct apples-to-apples dyno graphing, there's not much a person can do other than experiment for themselves.
I deliberately did not go with the reflash because my dealer/mechanic told me that he thought any warranty issues which might arise could be negatively impacted by messing with the ECU.
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It's amazing the amount of contradictory opinions one little motorcycle can generate. I've read dozens of times here that the fly removal has no affect on the traction control. I've read that the slip-on will have a noticeable affect on low-end torque in conjunction with the fly removal. Realizing that some of the wow factor is subjective, maybe all of it with out a direct apples-to-apples dyno graphing, there's not much a person can do other than experiment for themselves.
Opinions are one thing, facts are another- don't confuse them. It is a fact that a slip on will not improve your hp/tq. This fact is supported by the following details:
1) There are no dyno tests showing that a slipon does improve power
2) There is no evidence suggesting that the stock can is restrictive
Any dynotests showing a gain with a slipon ALSO include a different tune. When evaluating performance, you ALWAYS go with one mod at a time.A 6hp gain with a slipon and a tune? How do you know that it isn't ALL due to the tune? It is like the commercial for a diet herb supplement where the person says that with daily excercise, 1500 calories a day and the "fat burning" supplement, that they lost 30lbs. Gee, what role did adding daily exercise and cutting down on calories play?
Power from ditching the flies? That has been proven, acknowledged. Read up on the zx10r and you'll see that the U.S. bound bikes got overally aggressive fly action to meet noise regs, probably the same reason why our bikes are so constricted.
Does it affect tc? I haven't seen anyone post that it didn't at all.
More facts- changes in the exhaust can only potentially allow for more power if they remove restrictions. The restrictions in the C14 are in the header pipes and (maybe) hidden cat converter. Just as the fat chick rather paint her toe nails than lose 100lbs, it is much easier and cheaper to change the exhaust can than to replace the entire exhaust. And, this is a case where two mods (exhaust and tune) should be done as the same time- the aftermarket exhaust will flow so well that the bike is now out of tune with stock tuning.
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When evaluating performance, you ALWAYS go with one mod at a time...
Agreed. This is taught in high school chemistry class. When experimenting, change one variable at a time.
Mark
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Opinions are one thing, facts are another- don't confuse them. It is a fact that a slip on will not improve your hp/tq. This fact is supported by the following details:
1) There are no dyno tests showing that a slipon does improve power
2) There is no evidence suggesting that the stock can is restrictive
I agree with both points and in particular with the opening sentence. However, in a recent German magazine (they are NOT subjective) they took some bike (R1, Bandit 1250, or whatever, I can't remember) and fitted it with 16 different slip-on's to make a comparison regarding noise, power and torque gain, looks, and weight. 14 of them offered between 0,3% and 2,6% power/torque increase (peak), 2 of them actually reduced it. Weight was between 15% and 60% less. Looks is subjective.
In my opinion, the weight and looks difference were more than enough reason to go for the Remus Hexacone Ti. I love it, and the noise it makes is intoxicating. That article quoted a gain of around 1,4% or something like that. I don't notice nor care. What I love the most about that can is the same that I don't have to see that eye sore that the OEM exhaust was, and have a piece of beauty instead (to my eyes anyway).
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I agree with both points and in particular with the opening sentence. However, in a recent German magazine (they are NOT subjective) they took some bike (R1, Bandit 1250, or whatever, I can't remember) and fitted it with 16 different slip-on's to make a comparison regarding noise, power and torque gain, looks, and weight. 14 of them offered between 0,3% and 2,6% power/torque increase (peak), 2 of them actually reduced it. Weight was between 15% and 60% less. Looks is subjective.
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If it's not a C14 they tested, it is irrelevant.
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If it's not a C14 they tested, it is irrelevant.
How so? If they had used a train I would be in complete agreement. The numbers quoted are very broad ranged and since we dont bench race around here I would say his statement is quite relevant. I will however stand by my "Neutron Silver is faster" statement ;D
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How so? If they had used a train I would be in complete agreement. The numbers quoted are very broad ranged and since we dont bench race around here I would say his statement is quite relevant. I will however stand by my "Neutron Silver is faster" statement ;D
It's pretty obvious why it is irrelevant- it is a different bike! It is made by a different company, with a different engine, with a different exhaust. Is the flow rate of the Bandit exhaust the same as that of C14? How about the header pipes? Comparing the dyno results of a C14 to another different bike is like comparing apples to twinkies.
"If they used a train..." is very simplistic. I gained 12hp by replacing the exhaust on my '96 Impala SS. With your logic, I should gain at least that much by replacing the stock exhaust on my '06 GTO, right? I mean hey, they are both fric'in cars, right? Guess what, there is no gain. Why? Because the stock exhaust on the GTO flows pretty good, the stock exhaust on the '96 Impala SS is shared with the caddy fleetwood and it is extra quiet at the expense of hp (it is restrictive).
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SORRY, IT'S NOT OBVIOUS. UNLESS YOU ARE A GP RIDER WHAT MATTERS THE MOST IS WHAT THE RIDER FEELS.
Did you miss the smiley? ;) And Neutron Silver is still quicker ;D
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And Neutron Silver is still quicker ;D
:o :battle: :nuts:
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:o :battle: :nuts:
Don't freak out, ZG. Clearly, he doesn't know what he's talking about...
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Don't freak out, ZG. Clearly, he doesn't know what he's talking about...
Well, I would say he is approaching Harley crazy ;D If we used Harleys as an example of pipes as a power adder we could safely assume they slow them down, but then again, they want to look loud and cool, if they went as fast as the Silver ones they wouldn't be seen for near as long 8)
And, FWIW, a slip on IS lest restrictive, but there are those pesky cats doing a bunch of strangle moves in the collectors. So, much of the gain is in the mind of the rider, where it really counts on the street.