Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: feelergaugephil on January 16, 2012, 03:04:16 AM
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08 Connie, 28K.
Absalutly love the ABS, in the 3.5 years I have owned it, the ABS has saved me 3 times, 2 times were cars pulling out on me, the 3rd was on Deals Gap, (you know that tiny little straight with the small hump in it,) was going to quick for the right turn at the end of it,,,,,, well if you rode it, you know what I'm talking about.....
So, the downfall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ride an 03 ZRX 1200R without ABS, the back wheel locks up under heavy braking!!!!!!!!!! ok, rant over!!!! lololololol.
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08 Connie, 28K.
Absalutly love the ABS, in the 3.5 years I have owned it, the ABS has saved me 3 times, 2 times were cars pulling out on me, the 3rd was on Deals Gap, (you know that tiny little straight with the small hump in it,) was going to quick for the right turn at the end of it,,,,,, well if you rode it, you know what I'm talking about.....
So, the downfall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ride an 03 ZRX 1200R without ABS, the back wheel locks up under heavy braking!!!!!!!!!! ok, rant over!!!! lololololol.
I don't understand your posting. The ZRX has no ABS, so how is that a "downfall of ABS"? Rear brakes are not very useful for hard braking because most of the weight is transferred to the front wheel. If your rear is locking up on a non-ABS bike, it is because you are applying too much rear brake.
My last bike was a 2000 ZRX.
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Seems as though he means being used to the ABS causes him to be heavy footed on the non ABS bike...
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On that note, I find that during a really hard stop ('10 C14) using the front brake only, the ABS will kick in on the rear wheel occasionally. Too much bias on the rear wheel, and that is on the default lighter setting.
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Seems as though he means being used to the ABS causes him to be heavy footed on the non ABS bike...
And that is a problem, indeed. Since motorcycle riders should always be using primarily the front brake; regardless of linking or ABS. It is a VERY dangerous habit to get into using primarily the rear brake (I rarely even use the rear brake).
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^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^
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And that is a problem, indeed. Since motorcycle riders should always be using primarily the front brake; regardless of linking or ABS. It is a VERY dangerous habit to get into using primarily the rear brake (I rarely even use the rear brake).
+1
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I agree its a problem switching between abs and non abs. I dont know how long I'll put up with the nonsense since they released the Ninja 1000abs. In the name of safety I feel like I should replace my sv650 with one. Not that I want a new bike, but I'll do this for safety.
Rear abs is cool in that it allows use of the rear brake on the street. I was surprised at how much I could use before abs kicked in. Without abs, I dont bother or will use a hard, worthless pad to prevent lock-up. It probably does not add much brake power, but it does help steady the bike. After having abs, I dont think I want to be without it.
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I don't understand your posting. The ZRX has no ABS, so how is that a "downfall of ABS"? Rear brakes are not very useful for hard braking because most of the weight is transferred to the front wheel. If your rear is locking up on a non-ABS bike, it is because you are applying too much rear brake.
My last bike was a 2000 ZRX.
I was being comical, Im used to ABS and the rex doesnt have it, so Im not as comfortable on the rex as the connie...
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ABS makes my rear brake functional. I slam my foot on it, feel the abs tick while using the front.
On every other bike I owned, rear brake was the same- use it and it'll lock.
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And that is a problem, indeed. Since motorcycle riders should always be using primarily the front brake; regardless of linking or ABS. It is a VERY dangerous habit to get into using primarily the rear brake (I rarely even use the rear brake).
Yes, and as we've discussed before, it's equally a bad habit to allow your rear-braking skills to atrophy through non-use. Not just because you will want that skill when you ride a different, non-linked bike, but because you can control the rear brake in the linked system to prevent the front end of diving at inopportune moments through excessive front lever.
I find that some rear brake pedal pressure prior to entering a turn activates enough front brake (one rotor) to keep the bike stabilized and the suspension level. It's not going to cause you to high side because it won't lock and skid . In fact, the only time I tend to ignore the rear brake is when I'm in traffic. I'll let the computer do the work for rear braking.
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Yes, and as we've discussed before, it's equally a bad habit to allow your rear-braking skills to atrophy through non-use. [...]
It is *far more* dangerous to get into a habit of overusing the rear brake than never using it at all. However, I am not promoting the complete disuse of the rear brake, just relegating it to its proper place- far less important than the front brake.
If one gets the the habit of primarily using the rear brake, it will become automatic, and in a panic situation that could kill someone trained that way who then gets on a bike without linked/ABS.
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It is *far more* dangerous to get into a habit of overusing the rear brake than never using it at all. However, I am not promoting the complete disuse of the rear brake, just relegating it to its proper place- far less important than the front brake.
If one gets the the habit of primarily using the rear brake, it will become automatic, and in a panic situation that could kill someone trained that way who then gets on a bike without linked/ABS.
I've read all the posts in this thread twice and nowhere did I see anyone say anything about primarily using, or over using, the rear brake. ::)
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I've read all the posts in this thread twice and nowhere did I see anyone say anything about primarily using, or over using, the rear brake. ::)
It was the OP (original poster): "I ride an 03 ZRX 1200R without ABS, the back wheel locks up under heavy braking!!!!!!!!!!" Although he later says he was kidding, that sentence indicates over-breaking on the rear. And in context, he was talking about panic stops where ABS saved him.
Then Texrider added "Seems as though he means being used to the ABS causes him to be heavy footed on the non ABS bike..."
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I use both brakes. I paid for them so I'm going to use them. I will also never buy another non-ABS bike.
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I use both brakes. I paid for them so I'm going to use them. I will also never buy another non-ABS bike.
Amen brother!
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I use both brakes. I paid for them so I'm going to use them. I will also never buy another non-ABS bike.
precisely!
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I use both brakes. I paid for them so I'm going to use them. I will also never buy another non-ABS bike.
(http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/images/smilies/plus1.gif)
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I use both brakes. I paid for them so I'm going to use them. I will also never buy another non-ABS bike.
+2 or 3
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I use my rear brake, but only in addition to the front. I'm amazed at how many riders never practice braking skills before they need it. Those are the ones you find in a ditch just after the long skid mark abruptly stops. You should use your rear brake so often that it is second nature, so you know how much you can use without locking it up. You need to practice this so that in an emergency you WON'T lock it up. No I don't have ABS, I bought the 2009 over the 2010 because I didn't wan t linked brakes. Personal choice. I also tend to go for the simpler of two pieces of machinery as long as the simpler one does what it is I want, and the 2009 does.
Practice is better than complacency, whether you have ABS or not.
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I use my rear brake, but only in addition to the front. I'm amazed at how many riders never practice braking skills before they need it. Those are the ones you find in a ditch just after the long skid mark abruptly stops. You should use your rear brake so often that it is second nature, so you know how much you can use without locking it up. You need to practice this so that in an emergency you WON'T lock it up. No I don't have ABS, I bought the 2009 over the 2010 because I didn't wan t linked brakes. Personal choice. I also tend to go for the simpler of two pieces of machinery as long as the simpler one does what it is I want, and the 2009 does.
Practice is better than complacency, whether you have ABS or not.
The 08/09 ABS systems are not linked.
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After purchasing my 08 C14 ABS, I thought that I would never buy another non-ABS bike. But there were just too many cool old bikes w/o ABS, so I relented. I still don't think I'd buy a new bike w/o it.
ABS makes it easier to practice hard braking. You learn to modulate while reducing the risk. It is not hard to switch between and ABS and a non-ABS bike, nor to switch between different styles of bikes. You just have to put enought time on each so that riding that bike becomes natural. Usually it takes well under 1000 miles to fine tune the muscle memory for each bike.
So yes, ABS is wonderful, but it is not a good reason to miss out on riding some wonderful bikes that don't have it.
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I agree to that but it's my wife I need to convince....
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ABS rocks, stret or track. And i used to be anti-ABS till i got open-minded and bought a bike with it
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ABS makes it easier to practice hard braking. You learn to modulate while reducing the risk.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I share your sentiments regarding the rest of your post, but if you are saying here that you should learn to modulate ABS brakes, I would have to disagree. ABS is about preventing wheel lock, and no human can modulate (apply and release) the brakes as quickly or precisely as a computer. So an ABS system gives the rider the luxury of braking as hard as they want without fear of lockup. Modulation would only occur during the normal course of minimal braking that is a part of proficient riding. Wouldn't you agree?
The linked aspect of the ABS system on the Connie is another matter. I wish there was an on/off switch for that, as I'm not always happy with the computer's use of differential braking. But for the most part I am used to it and I just use my right foot to assist the system prior to entering curves, as I've said, to quiet the suspension during the turn.
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My apologies, I thought it was fairly obvious. It is true enough that in a panic situation, you can grab/stomp the ABS and let the system modulate. That is not what I was discussing. I was discussing practicing hard braking.
With normal braking practice, you brake harder and harder, gently approaching the pavement and tire traction limits. With ABS, the practice is the same, but instead of the tires sliding, the ABS engages. So you practice under different conditions to become familiar with how the bike, suspension and tires behave, with less risk of crashing. Same practice, but there is a safety net with the ABS.
With proper situational awareness, the odds of needing the skills drop, but it is better to keep the skills sharp.
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I agree to that but it's my wife I need to convince....
They make solo seats.
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My apologies, I thought it was fairly obvious. It is true enough that in a panic situation, you can grab/stomp the ABS and let the system modulate. That is not what I was discussing. I was discussing practicing hard braking.
With normal braking practice, you brake harder and harder, gently approaching the pavement and tire traction limits. With ABS, the practice is the same, but instead of the tires sliding, the ABS engages. So you practice under different conditions to become familiar with how the bike, suspension and tires behave, with less risk of crashing. Same practice, but there is a safety net with the ABS.
With proper situational awareness, the odds of needing the skills drop, but it is better to keep the skills sharp.
Ah, I agree with all of that. Things that are obvious to other people aren't always obvious to me, but I make up for it with a winning personality. ;D
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The 08/09 ABS systems are not linked.
:thumbs: :thumbs:
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The 08/09 ABS systems are not linked.
I know, my choices were a 2010 and a 2009 non-ABS, I went with the 2009.
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It was the OP (original poster): "I ride an 03 ZRX 1200R without ABS, the back wheel locks up under heavy braking!!!!!!!!!!" Although he later says he was kidding, that sentence indicates over-breaking on the rear. And in context, he was talking about panic stops where ABS saved him.
Then Texrider added "Seems as though he means being used to the ABS causes him to be heavy footed on the non ABS bike..."
Exactly......................... I was also reffering to, (well not many people can do this) is heavy braking IN THE CURVE without the bike standing up straight or throwing you off, sometimes I'll get in a curve too hot and have to use the rear brake, the 1200 would spit me off, but the 1400 pulses nicely, (not every curve, just the ones I went into too hot)
I'll wear the back brakes out twice as much as the front, I rarely use the front brakes in a curve, seen sooooooo many people go down using that method.
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Exactly......................... I was also reffering to, (well not many people can do this) is heavy braking IN THE CURVE without the bike standing up straight or throwing you off, sometimes I'll get in a curve too hot and have to use the rear brake, the 1200 would spit me off, but the 1400 pulses nicely, (not every curve, just the ones I went into too hot)
I'll wear the back brakes out twice as much as the front, I rarely use the front brakes in a curve, seen sooooooo many people go down using that method.
To many of us, the bolded statement would be evidence of overusage of the rear brake, and of poor braking techniques and practices. Good luck.
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Been riding 30 years, still here to show that I'm still alive..........
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Been posted before, but it's worth reading again. I wonder how many riders have been touched by this type of riding?
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/flashback/122_0911_the_pace_nick_ienatsch/index.html (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/flashback/122_0911_the_pace_nick_ienatsch/index.html)
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Theoretically non-ABS bikes are faster because they are lighter. :)
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To many of us, the bolded statement would be evidence of overusage of the rear brake, and of poor braking techniques and practices. Good luck.
+1 :o